Topic: Tiny Box Help

[jmerin]

Hello... I am going to be ordering one of the Tiny boxes in a day or so . I just want to get a few opinions. I will be getting the one for the schoeps (5 pin binder). The creator said that he can customize the gain settings. I was thinking 10 20 30. What are your thoughts thanks!

My config will be :

Standard amplifier
single minijack
Direct line only
16V


schoeps > tiny box >m10

I plan to stealth and open tape jam band shows..

[Ultfris101]

Great choice. You might consider sticking with the slightly lower default gain settings. I almost always find that my mid gain setting is sufficient with my Sony m10 set to 3. Occasionally I want to go down from there on the tinybox and I'd rather have too little gain for a situation than too much. I've found the low gain setting necessary when running at stage lip or in clubs with loud PAs.

I'm not sure I have ever needed to use the high gain except for recording some non-amplified music.

In fact if I was ordering one today I might do 0, 10, 20

[darktrain]

Mine is 10, 20, 30 and I have never used the 30 setting, if I were to get another, I might do 8,16,24

[willndmb]

I have stock and have never used high, mostly mid, occasionally low

[beatkilla]

Same here mine has 4,18,32. And i only have used the mid setting of 18.

[jmerin]

over all is every one happy with the pre amp?

[obaaron]

Love mne...once you get your in hand im sure you will feel the same 

Mine is also 4,18 and 32 always run on 18..

[jmerin]

Is there a big difference between 18 and 20? I am thinking I might get a stock one . 4 18 32..

I was thinking 10 20 30

[willndmb]

Love mine too
Not as much as my littlebox but real close

[colinw]

I love mine. I have the stock gain settings and always run either low or medium.

[jmerin]

could someone confirm what the stock  gain settings are for me thanks!

[Ultfris101]

4, 18, 32. I had to search for a bit on the Naiant site to find them again.

Look for "Gain control" about halfway down:

http://naiant.com/tinybox-specification/

You got me thinking about this some more and I think I'd stick with the defaults for another one   Also to keep consistent with my first one.

Not presented as a head to head comp at all (or anything of the sort!) , just an anecdotal reference I ran "Schoeps MK5 > KCY > Tinybox > M10" Thur night and "MK5 > KC5/CMC6 > USBPre2 > R-44" Fri and sat night at Camp Barefoot (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=169829.0) and I don't have any complaints at all with how my recordings turned out either night (other than my apparent spdif cable issue which is my own deal of course)

[bombdiggity]

What you'll use depends on what you record but the stock setting should be fine.  I have the stock setting and rarely run low but don't do a lot of very loud shows.  I have had to run high for unamplified classical and acoustic stuff in large rooms, so like having that.  I nearly always run mid though.  You'll probably use low and mid... 

[jmerin]

Thanks for your input. I ordered a tiny box with the standard gains

[dnsacks]

while not mentioned in your posts and perhaps too late, don't forget to consider the Output Transformer option --

[jmerin]

thanks, spoke to a few and they said that was not needed

[adrianf74]

thanks, spoke to a few and they said that was not needed

I'll concur (and know I'm late to the game).  I originally thought about getting OT's on my TinyBox but considering the natural sonic signature, I didn't want to "mess" with that (and I'm a purist).   I think you chose well.

[rodeen]

My Tinybox has dual outputs, direct out and output with transformers.  I've found I almost always use the direct out. 

[carlbeck]

Sort of off topic so I apologize but I'm curious as to the gain being used by everyone. I find that with my mics & preamps I run from 25-30 db of gain & 0db on my DR680. If the M10 is set between 3-4 isn't that unity gain? If so are you guys recording with less than 20db of gain & adding in post? With my Telefunkens & AKG's 25-30db of gain gets me where I need to be without going over & adding about 3db in post when taping loud jam band shows. How much are you typically adding in post processing for gain then?

[willndmb]

Most cases I use medium gain on the the and m10 on 4

[carlbeck]

This depends on the operating level of the recorder, and specifically how they decide to handle the analog input stage.  Realize that nearly every ADC chip has a maximum input of about 1VRMS, which is 0dBV (+2dBu).  So to interface with 'pro' levels, the input has to be padded before the ADC.  Or, if the input level control of the device allows, the sensitivity of the input can be set to any operating level.

tinybox is basically a -10dBV device with a bit of extra headroom (+13dBV).  Its noise performance is maximized a little above 20dB gain, so the noise performance is a little worse at +18dB, but for a loud source this just really doesn't matter.  If a quiet source is being recorded, I'd recommend using high (+32dB) gain as required.

The DR-680 is probably structured like a 'pro' device, so you need 12dB more gain to hit the same level at the ADC as a recorder that only operates at the 0dBV max level of the ADC.  That probably means that even at its nominal 0dB setting, the DR-680 is actually padding the input to the ADC.

A typical condenser mic is around -40dBV/Pa, so a not-very-loud concert will have average level of that, but peak level of up to -20dBV.  Given that the maximum peak input of an ADC chip is 0dBV, you shouldn't need more than 20dB gain.  There are reasons to use a higher operating level for signal transmission, but in a typical taper situation they wouldn't really apply.

This is why I designed tinybox as a -10dBV device:  it is structured exactly to the task at hand, which is recording concerts using condenser microphones into recorders operating at -10dBV.  This saves quite a lot of power over the 'pro' level approach of using more gain and a higher operating level, only to pad that level at the ADC.  Every 6dB increase in operating level doubles power consumption, so a 'pro' level input will use four times the power of a 'consumer' level input.

Jon I believe you are correct. When I first started using my DR680 I ran the external preamps & therefore the recording levels quite low as everyone had suggested (-16db on the horrible display, with peaks slightly higher) but I found the recordings flat & lifeless even with a healthy bump in post gain as everyone has suggested. It wasn't until I started to run my preamps at higher gain settings that I found the recordings sounding as I had expected. My point is that yes, I believe you are correct in the assumption of the DR680 requiring higher gain levels more than likely due to operating at pro specs, ie padding the input to the ADC. As always your input is appreciated & an asset to the community, thanks.