Topic: Too much self noise after years of operation?

[MakersMarc]

So dpa is telling me that I need a new cap in one 4022 because it's intermittent self noise of 27 db exceeds spec of 20. Does this matter for far field rock? The repair is 1k. this didn't happen overnight and it is not noticeable to me. The other mic is up to spec but has a minor short. Because these are 14 years old I'm struggling with spending a total of 1300 before selling. Thanks!

[Fried Chicken Boy]

7 dB is a pretty large margin for the capsule to be off.  But if you can't hear it and it doesn't bother you, maybe you don't need to get it fixed?  I can tell you from my own experience (which we touched on in your other thread) that when the preamp on one of my 4021s started to go funky, I heard it immediately and knew something wasn't right.  That was all the impetus I needed to send it off to DPA for a checkup and they diagnosed the problem.  As you've found out, repairing DPA microphones gets expensive. 

Not that I need to say this but if, down the road, you decide to sell them without being fixed it would be wise to be completely transparent with the buyer so as to avoid complications.   Suffice to say it will also affect the selling price. 

[acidjack]

Just throwing out random numbers, with full repairs and a DPA warranty, you can get probably the $2500 you were asking. Without, I (personally) wouldn't pay more than $500 for them. Fine, the buyer could get DPA to do the repair themselves for $1300, making the total worth $1800, but I've done the YS rodeo way, way too many times to not chop a substantial % off the price for the risk.

That said, it's your sale, do what you want, and I'm not in the market, just offering an opinion.

[MakersMarc]

7 dB is a pretty large margin for the capsule to be off.  But if you can't hear it and it doesn't bother you, maybe you don't need to get it fixed?  I can tell you from my own experience (which we touched on in your other thread) that when the preamp on one of my 4021s started to go funky, I heard it immediately and knew something wasn't right.  That was all the impetus I needed to send it off to DPA for a checkup and they diagnosed the problem.  As you've found out, repairing DPA microphones gets expensive. 

Not that I need to say this but if, down the road, you decide to sell them without being fixed it would be wise to be completely transparent with the buyer so as to avoid complications.   Suffice to say it will also affect the selling price.

No way I'd sell these absent full disclosure. If I don't fix them, I'd keep as backups. Curious, what did you hear when the 4021 cap went bad? Hiss?

[weroflu]

Is there any safe way to try cleaning the capsule before spending that much money?

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Curious, what did you hear when the 4021 cap went bad? Hiss?

For lack of a better way to describe it, the failing microphone sounded a little dark and muddy to my ears, and it was definitely noisy but more of the pink- or brown- noise variety rather than the brighter white noise type.  It was subtle and not as overwhelming as you'd think, but when I compared the two mics to each other over headphones the issue became very readily apparent and impossible, for me, to overlook. 

To reiterate my own opinion, I side with acidjack on this in that it makes sense (and yeah, it's financially painful) to get the mics fixed back to full working order.  That was the tough decision I had to make with mine and I feel it worked out for the best.  YMMV, etc.  Good luck and feel free to PM me if you'd like to hash through things in greater detail. 

[Gutbucket]

Depending on what you typically record, the self-noise difference may not matter if you are going to continue using these yourself or keep as backups.  In that case, the noise-floor of the recording environment is what matters, and not the distance from the source.  For most live music taper applications, the environmental noise floor is going to exceed the self-noise of the mics by a significant amount.  If it does, then the difference in self-noise between the two mics won't matter.   If you are recording in really quiet environments, it will matter.   It will probably matter for studio recording or classical recording.  It probably wouldn't for amplified rock stuff or even jazz with a quiet audience in most rooms where HVAC noise dominates the environmental noise floor.

But that assumes the mics are still relatively closely frequency matched with each other for all signal levels above the environmental noise-floor where is does matter.  If you can hear a difference between the two (other than self-noise with the preamp gain cranked), they aren't closely frequency matched.

So not repairing them might be a viable option depending on your use.  But repairing them probably makes more sense for re-sale as the others have mentioned, or if this issue is going to bug you if you keep them.

When I sent a pair of Gefells back to the factory for other repairs, they described a similar problem and gave me the option of having the capsule replaced or not.  I decided to go ahead and do it rather than have to send them on a return trip again at a later date.  I'm glad I did as they came back perfectly matched with measured charts and sounded better than ever.

[2manyrocks]

Seems like you posted that you had have some issues with these mics more than once.  Only you can say when you feel enough is enough.  Does $1,300 fix the recurring issue and how long does it stay fixed?

Then there's the question of what else you would buy to replace them, what they would cost, and what their reliability would be. 

$1,300 over 14 years--that's another way of looking at the cost.

[MakersMarc]

Thanks guys, most appreciated. Gonna fix them.

[H₂O]

This makes the cost of Schoeps repairs seem petty

[MakersMarc]

Seems like you posted that you had have some issues with these mics more than once.  Only you can say when you feel enough is enough.  Does $1,300 fix the recurring issue and how long does it stay fixed?

Then there's the question of what else you would buy to replace them, what they would cost, and what their reliability would be. 

$1,300 over 14 years--that's another way of looking at the cost.

That's just this repair. prior repairs totaling 800 or so, all shorts.

[2manyrocks]

That's gotta hurt.

[MakersMarc]

It hurt my ass to pay that 1281 but these need to be fixed and out there, hopefully someone here and not eBay.

[morst]

this ain't a cheap hobby. Well, not the DPA version of it...