Topic: Metalhead stealth taper here - need some suggestions

[j4g3rb0mb3d]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

Back in the day, I used to stealth tape metal shows using a Sony MR-R700 Minidisc player and recorder along with pair of Core Sound Low Cost Binaural microphones with the low sensitivity option. My tapings of outdoor festivals sounded great, but at indoor venues the audio quality was usually garbage because of bass distortion.

Now that my ex and I have parted ways, I've been going to waaaayyy more shows that I have for the past 10 years or so, and I'm looking to start taping again. A lot of the bands that I'm into are starting to get older, so my opportunities to tape them are starting to dwindle. The stars have aligned, and in the next two months or so, I'm seeing 9 bands from my youth. The venues range from 300 person clubs, to midsize 1500 person theaters, to larger ballrooms that hold 5000 people. Later on in the summer, I have 3 outdoor festivals, possibly 4, that I'm going to that I'll most likely be taping at. I'm looking to upgrade my equipment so that I can get some decent, preferably better than decent recordings.

1. I'm going to purchase a Sony M10 - I'm done with Minidiscs. I recently ripped the recordings off of my old Minidiscs, and there are some skips from moving around, getting moshed into, etc.
2. Should I get a preamp or a battery box? Would either help with reducing bass distortion?
3. Should I upgrade the microphones that I already have? They seem nice, and I paid about 100 bucks for them 11 years ago.
4. Should I have to get either a preamp or a battery box, as well as new microphones, I'm looking to purchase from CA. How long does it take for CA to ship, and would you recommend Omni or Cardiod microphones? I have a show coming up on 1/22/16, so I don't have a ton of time to wait for equipment. Would you recommend anything else as an alternative should CA's build and ship time take too long?

Thanks in advance for the help, all.

[nulldogmas]

I used CSBs with a battery box with bass rolloff for years (including plenty of guitar rock shows, though not metal), and got fine results. If you want to start by picking up a basic box that will roll off below 100Hz or so, I expect you'll get good results with the CSBs and the M10.

I actually expect you'd probably get good results with a battery box *without* rolloff as well, since the M10 doesn't distort easily. (And you can then reduce the bass via EQ in post.) But if you're picking one up anyway, it doesn't hurt to get that feature.

[down2earthlandscaper]

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

Back in the day, I used to stealth tape metal shows using a Sony MR-R700 Minidisc player and recorder along with pair of Core Sound Low Cost Binaural microphones with the low sensitivity option. My tapings of outdoor festivals sounded great, but at indoor venues the audio quality was usually garbage because of bass distortion.

Now that my ex and I have parted ways, I've been going to waaaayyy more shows that I have for the past 10 years or so, and I'm looking to start taping again. A lot of the bands that I'm into are starting to get older, so my opportunities to tape them are starting to dwindle. The stars have aligned, and in the next two months or so, I'm seeing 9 bands from my youth. The venues range from 300 person clubs, to midsize 1500 person theaters, to larger ballrooms that hold 5000 people. Later on in the summer, I have 3 outdoor festivals, possibly 4, that I'm going to that I'll most likely be taping at. I'm looking to upgrade my equipment so that I can get some decent, preferably better than decent recordings.

1. I'm going to purchase a Sony M10 - I'm done with Minidiscs. I recently ripped the recordings off of my old Minidiscs, and there are some skips from moving around, getting moshed into, etc.
2. Should I get a preamp or a battery box? Would either help with reducing bass distortion?
3. Should I upgrade the microphones that I already have? They seem nice, and I paid about 100 bucks for them 11 years ago.
4. Should I have to get either a preamp or a battery box, as well as new microphones, I'm looking to purchase from CA. How long does it take for CA to ship, and would you recommend Omni or Cardiod microphones? I have a show coming up on 1/22/16, so I don't have a ton of time to wait for equipment. Would you recommend anything else as an alternative should CA's build and ship time take too long?

Thanks in advance for the help, all.

Build and ship time has been lengthy for CA products, in my personal experience. Great products, I highly recommend them - but if you need something by January 22nd it's doubtful that you'd get them in time. You might want to email Chris and ask about that. Maybe if he has some already built he could make it happen? There has been a lot of Church Audio gear in Yardsale recently. It would be well worth checking out.
An alternative would be AT853's - Ted or Darktrain often have great deals on the AT853 packages. And ship very quickly.
If your looking for extremely small and discrete mics  , the CAFS are incredible.

I do think that a battery box or preamp will help the mics to handle higher SPL's.

[fandelive]

Hello,

if you used to plug your low-cost CSB's directly into the mic-in of your Sony MD, what you got was not bass distortion but brickwalling IMHO.
Sony MDs integrated preamps used to be pretty poor and unable to handle high SPLs.

Adding a battery-box to your rig is a minimum. It will increase the SPL threshold your mics can handle.
Then, plug your mics > battery-box > line-in of your recording device.

With that being said, I can't guarantee you won't get any bass distortion. I have never owned any CSB's myself, but their are built using cheap Panasonic capsules and they are subject to bass distortion.
I taped a few indoor rock shows using Giant Squid omnis (which are built using the same caps) + battery box and got bass distortion.

The fact is that you might get a clean recording if you don't stand too close to the speakers, but then you'll get a distant, boomy and crowd noisy recording instead. (I'm talking indoor).
Stealth omnis are aimed to be used to tape front of stacks to avoid unwanted crowd noise and bad room reverb. So if you still want to use omnis, you need to get a better pair of mics.
Omnis work great in small clubs if you can stand in front of a speaker.

I'd go for a mic upgrade. AT 853's would be a great choice if you still want a budget rig. Ask for low-sensivity caps (tell the seller/builder you want to record loud metal shows).

I'm a happy user of a CA-9100 preamp. I know alot of people here will suggest a pair of Church Audio's as great starter mics, but I still have to hear a good sounding stealth tape made with them.
Might come from the fact they are mainly used by beginners, or maybe I don't like their sound (but that's all a matter of personal tastes).

Happy taping

[daspyknows]

I can guarantee this rig would meet your needs. 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175849.0

Join the team.  FWIW I have no skin in this game.

[ilduclo]

For now, stick with the csb's and, yes, you need a battery box to keep distortion at bay. When it's time to upgrade go with the AT's which have better wiring than csb's or ca's. High end stuff only unless you've got a rich uncle. Lastly, post your new recordings up on line for others to enjoy (and critique).  Happy new year!

Jacks suggestion below would also be a great suggestion for new mics. Soundpro is a really well run company, service wise. I've run their battery box for 8 years with one repair!

[acidjack]

I would go to SoundProfessionals and hook up a new pair of their mics -- which they can get you by the 22nd -- along with a battery box. They have a new set of Beyerdynamic-based small cardiods that are going to be perfect for your needs (based on what we've heard so far).

[j4g3rb0mb3d]

Thank you all for the responses.

I'll be sure to post up my recordings.

The shows I'm going to are:
Tool \ Primus
Lamb of God \ Anthrax
Metallica \ Cage The Elephant - Probably only going to tape CTE
Slayer \ Testament \ Carcass
Megadeth \ Suicidal Tendencies \ Children of Bodom \ Havok

Should make for some good recordings!

[lsd2525]

Be careful at that Tool show.......

[j4g3rb0mb3d]

Be careful at that Tool show.......

First time going to a Tool show, but do they have a rep for busting tapers? I can only imagine that they outsource security.

[lsd2525]

I've only heard stories, but I think their security actively tries to bust tapers.

[opsopcopolis]

Be careful at that Tool show.......

First time going to a Tool show, but do they have a rep for busting tapers? I can only imagine that they outsource security.

Yes to both of those.
Outsourced security that is actively looking for tapers. That being said, it's pretty easy to be discrete these days. 

Also not sure what the above comment about no good stealth church audio recordings is about. I've made and heard plenty of great sounding stealth CA recordings. His build time can be quite long though

[yltfan]

If you can find some used AT 853's (with the 4.7 mod) and a CA 9100 or 9200, I think you will be quite pleased with what you can pull. I still have some of those same Core Sounds, and the 853's would be a big improvement. Or plunk down the cabbage for that Schoeps rig!

[ilduclo]

I use a battery box only, I have an old soundprofessionals 9v (model 3) that's a great unit. I bought a "church ugly" box, but haven't needed to use it since the SP box is so solid.

I have never needed a preamp and I record some soft sounding classical type stuff, too. I use a sony d50. I use mic in all the time, including for the Melvins and other really loud shows. So, I set my recorder volume at 2 or 3 for those shows and keep the mic attenuation switch on the side of the d50 at -20 db. I like to keep all my standard settings the same, instead of messing around with anything else other than the recorder volume. Keeps it simple, I guess. It's been working pretty good, I haven't had any shows to speak of that I recorded with distortion in a LONG time, but have recorded a few at too low a setting once in a while....

a couple more reccos from my side are 

record some shows you don't care about for a while, go to a lot of local shows or whatever to see how you're doing before you go see one that you really want to get correct. So, get the bugs worked out on a couple of crap shows first.

record at 24 bit

save your raw recordings so if you mess up the processing, you can go back and start over

please post what you get on line and there will always be someone here who will be willing to critique it.

[j4g3rb0mb3d]

I use a battery box only, I have an old soundprofessionals 9v (model 3) that's a great unit. I bought a "church ugly" box, but haven't needed to use it since the SP box is so solid.

I have never needed a preamp and I record some soft sounding classical type stuff, too. I use a sony d50. I use mic in all the time, including for the Melvins and other really loud shows. So, I set my recorder volume at 2 or 3 for those shows and keep the mic attenuation switch on the side of the d50 at -20 db. I like to keep all my standard settings the same, instead of messing around with anything else other than the recorder volume. Keeps it simple, I guess. It's been working pretty good, I haven't had any shows to speak of that I recorded with distortion in a LONG time, but have recorded a few at too low a setting once in a while....

a couple more reccos from my side are 

record some shows you don't care about for a while, go to a lot of local shows or whatever to see how you're doing before you go see one that you really want to get correct. So, get the bugs worked out on a couple of crap shows first.

record at 24 bit

save your raw recordings so if you mess up the processing, you can go back and start over

please post what you get on line and there will always be someone here who will be willing to critique it.

What mics do you use?

I actually have two "test" shows lined up to test out equipment.