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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3  (Read 28106 times)

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 01:15:07 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the mixpre6.

As I asked here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182533.0, I had trouble with the Mixpre6 line in the other night. The source was
Schoeps mk4v> nbob KCY> Naiant littlebox (high power, 0 gain)> SD Mixpre6 aux 1/8 inch input to Channels 5 +6 with 22db gain.

Jon at Naiant confirms, via e-mail, that the clipping was likely at the AD stage after the littlebox.

It was loud onstage (soulive with scofield see for a matrix of the mk22 and mk3 sources: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=593684), but nothing the mixpre6 couldn't handle via its xlr ins. I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?

Here are the images of the files

normal file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126553;image
clipped file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126555;image
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 02:49:29 AM »
Maiden voyage tonight.  When I turned my unit on it DID NOT retain the settings from when I had turned it off after tests at home.  Channels were unlinked and I couldn't get it to start a recording for the life of me.

I powered it down, set preset to default, and re-followed Todd's instructions to get the settings back under control.

I also powered down the unit in between sets. When I turned it back on all tracks were disarmed and USB-c was switched from power only to audio.  I noticed the green battery meter was low.  I had to re-set USB-c to power only and then unplug and re-plug the power cable on the USB-A end to get the MP6 to see the external power again.  This may have been an oversight in my part after changing settings to default.

 It took a couple of songs before I noticed the tracks were disarmed.  The meters bump and the knob LEDs light up whether it is rolling or not.  The only indication a track is armed is the tiny track number lit red on the touchscreen unless you press a channel knob and check there.  The Wingman app saved my ass as that is where I noticed that they were disarmed.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre-6, Sony PCM-M10

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Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 08:38:40 AM »
I have found that in custom mode with basic gain and everything else advanced, it keeps the tracks armed when I power it on or change to that preset. When I switch to a preset with advanced mode or power on when the last state was in advanced mode, none of the channels are armed and the gain is reset back to 6, no matter where the gain was previously set. I'm not sure about the USB mode, why channels would be unlinked or not able to start a recording.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 09:07:02 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the mixpre6.

As I asked here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182533.0, I had trouble with the Mixpre6 line in the other night. The source was
Schoeps mk4v> nbob KCY> Naiant littlebox (high power, 0 gain)> SD Mixpre6 aux 1/8 inch input to Channels 5 +6 with 22db gain.

Jon at Naiant confirms, via e-mail, that the clipping was likely at the AD stage after the littlebox.

It was loud onstage (soulive with scofield see for a matrix of the mk22 and mk3 sources: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=593684), but nothing the mixpre6 couldn't handle via its xlr ins. I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?

Here are the images of the files

normal file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126553;image
clipped file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126555;image

Anyway you could have had the aux in set to mic in? Mic in starts at +10dB...
The line in for the aux in starts at -10dB and I wouldn't think that would have clipped
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 09:09:09 AM by johnw »
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

Canon 16-35mm/2.8L mkii, 24-70mm/2.8L, 70-200mm/2.8L IS, 50mm/1.8 mkii, 135mm/2L, 100mm/2.8L IS, Sigma 35mm/1.4 A  |  Canon 5D mk4

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2017, 09:14:48 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the mixpre6.

As I asked here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182533.0, I had trouble with the Mixpre6 line in the other night. The source was
Schoeps mk4v> nbob KCY> Naiant littlebox (high power, 0 gain)> SD Mixpre6 aux 1/8 inch input to Channels 5 +6 with 22db gain.

Jon at Naiant confirms, via e-mail, that the clipping was likely at the AD stage after the littlebox.

It was loud onstage (soulive with scofield see for a matrix of the mk22 and mk3 sources: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=593684), but nothing the mixpre6 couldn't handle via its xlr ins. I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?

Here are the images of the files

normal file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126553;image
clipped file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126555;image

Anyway you could have had the aux in set to mic in? Mic in starts at +10dB...
The line in for the aux in starts at -10dB and I wouldn't think that would have clipped

Definitely set to line in.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2017, 09:43:19 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the mixpre6.

As I asked here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182533.0, I had trouble with the Mixpre6 line in the other night. The source was
Schoeps mk4v> nbob KCY> Naiant littlebox (high power, 0 gain)> SD Mixpre6 aux 1/8 inch input to Channels 5 +6 with 22db gain.

Jon at Naiant confirms, via e-mail, that the clipping was likely at the AD stage after the littlebox.

It was loud onstage (soulive with scofield see for a matrix of the mk22 and mk3 sources: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=593684), but nothing the mixpre6 couldn't handle via its xlr ins. I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?

Here are the images of the files

normal file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126553;image
clipped file: http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=182533.0;attach=126555;image

Anyway you could have had the aux in set to mic in? Mic in starts at +10dB...
The line in for the aux in starts at -10dB and I wouldn't think that would have clipped

Definitely set to line in.

When I ran my USB Pre 2 into 5/6, I started with no gain and watched my levels on the meter in the mixpre 5/6 menu as I turned the gain up. I had set my initial USB Pre settings the way I always do and that made the most sense as I was also running S/PDIF into my Tascam DR100MKIII. My Mix Pre Gain was at 20db and no issues. From that point, based on the bands playing, I made a few tweaks, but using the output of the USB Pre2, not the mix pre6. However since I watched my initial levels go from zero to 18 and watched the little meter that was at the top of the menu go from no signal to a nice but conservative signal, I knew there was no brickwalling.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 10:04:17 AM »
Maiden voyage tonight.  When I turned my unit on it DID NOT retain the settings from when I had turned it off after tests at home.  Channels were unlinked and I couldn't get it to start a recording for the life of me.

I powered it down, set preset to default, and re-followed Todd's instructions to get the settings back under control.

I also powered down the unit in between sets. When I turned it back on all tracks were disarmed and USB-c was switched from power only to audio.  I noticed the green battery meter was low.  I had to re-set USB-c to power only and then unplug and re-plug the power cable on the USB-A end to get the MP6 to see the external power again.  This may have been an oversight in my part after changing settings to default.

 It took a couple of songs before I noticed the tracks were disarmed.  The meters bump and the knob LEDs light up whether it is rolling or not.  The only indication a track is armed is the tiny track number lit red on the touchscreen unless you press a channel knob and check there.  The Wingman app saved my ass as that is where I noticed that they were disarmed.

Have you saved all your settings as a preset? I've done that with my own setup, and then I re-load that preset each time I power up. Always works.

My headphone preset (so as to hear the ISO tracks when the LR MIX is not being recorded) is always retained and never has to be re-selected.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline voltronic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 10:18:45 AM »
Maiden voyage tonight.  When I turned my unit on it DID NOT retain the settings from when I had turned it off after tests at home.  Channels were unlinked and I couldn't get it to start a recording for the life of me.

I powered it down, set preset to default, and re-followed Todd's instructions to get the settings back under control.

I also powered down the unit in between sets. When I turned it back on all tracks were disarmed and USB-c was switched from power only to audio.  I noticed the green battery meter was low.  I had to re-set USB-c to power only and then unplug and re-plug the power cable on the USB-A end to get the MP6 to see the external power again.  This may have been an oversight in my part after changing settings to default.

 It took a couple of songs before I noticed the tracks were disarmed.  The meters bump and the knob LEDs light up whether it is rolling or not.  The only indication a track is armed is the tiny track number lit red on the touchscreen unless you press a channel knob and check there.  The Wingman app saved my ass as that is where I noticed that they were disarmed.

Have you saved all your settings as a preset? I've done that with my own setup, and then I re-load that preset each time I power up. Always works.

My headphone preset (so as to hear the ISO tracks when the LR MIX is not being recorded) is always retained and never has to be re-selected.


So to be clear, all that it retains upon a power cycle is the saved preset file, which you have to manually re-load?  It otherwise defaults to factory settings, and doesn't simply restore the previous state like most other modern recorders?  That sounds annoying.  I like the preset idea, but it shouldn't default to factory unless you specifically tell it to.

I wonder if this is by design, and part of SD making these accessible to less-experienced people - i.e. if you set something incorrectly and don't know how to get it back, just power cycle and you're back to factory defaults.  IMO, that behavior should only happen if you're in Basic mode, if at all.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2017, 10:19:34 AM »
When I ran my USB Pre 2 into 5/6, I started with no gain and watched my levels on the meter in the mixpre 5/6 menu as I turned the gain up. I had set my initial USB Pre settings the way I always do and that made the most sense as I was also running S/PDIF into my Tascam DR100MKIII. My Mix Pre Gain was at 20db and no issues. From that point, based on the bands playing, I made a few tweaks, but using the output of the USB Pre2, not the mix pre6. However since I watched my initial levels go from zero to 18 and watched the little meter that was at the top of the menu go from no signal to a nice but conservative signal, I knew there was no brickwalling.

Yes, this was precisely what I did. Worked fine at TTB, but got the clipped (brickwalled) files for the onstage Soulive.

I guess the explanation is that I overloaded the aux input, what is so strange to me is how this could be given that 0 gain was applied at the preamp, and the levels were good.

I suppose the solution is some kind of attentuating cable, unless anyone has any other bright ideas.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2017, 11:11:51 AM »
Maiden voyage tonight.  When I turned my unit on it DID NOT retain the settings from when I had turned it off after tests at home.  Channels were unlinked and I couldn't get it to start a recording for the life of me.

I powered it down, set preset to default, and re-followed Todd's instructions to get the settings back under control.

I also powered down the unit in between sets. When I turned it back on all tracks were disarmed and USB-c was switched from power only to audio.  I noticed the green battery meter was low.  I had to re-set USB-c to power only and then unplug and re-plug the power cable on the USB-A end to get the MP6 to see the external power again.  This may have been an oversight in my part after changing settings to default.

 It took a couple of songs before I noticed the tracks were disarmed.  The meters bump and the knob LEDs light up whether it is rolling or not.  The only indication a track is armed is the tiny track number lit red on the touchscreen unless you press a channel knob and check there.  The Wingman app saved my ass as that is where I noticed that they were disarmed.

Have you saved all your settings as a preset? I've done that with my own setup, and then I re-load that preset each time I power up. Always works.

My headphone preset (so as to hear the ISO tracks when the LR MIX is not being recorded) is always retained and never has to be re-selected.


So to be clear, all that it retains upon a power cycle is the saved preset file, which you have to manually re-load?  It otherwise defaults to factory settings, and doesn't simply restore the previous state like most other modern recorders?  That sounds annoying.  I like the preset idea, but it shouldn't default to factory unless you specifically tell it to.

I wonder if this is by design, and part of SD making these accessible to less-experienced people - i.e. if you set something incorrectly and don't know how to get it back, just power cycle and you're back to factory defaults.  IMO, that behavior should only happen if you're in Basic mode, if at all.

Actually, no, it doesn't go back to factory defaults. But there's no display of which preset I'm in, so I find it safer to reload the one I want from the list.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 12:31:34 PM »
So I'm intrigued at the idea of one box that might sounds better than mics>warm mod 661, but is the mix pre 3 pocketable? I would  Be running nbobs>PFA>MP3. Just not a funny pack kind of guy.  ;D
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline voltronic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 03:23:58 PM »
Maiden voyage tonight.  When I turned my unit on it DID NOT retain the settings from when I had turned it off after tests at home.  Channels were unlinked and I couldn't get it to start a recording for the life of me.

I powered it down, set preset to default, and re-followed Todd's instructions to get the settings back under control.

I also powered down the unit in between sets. When I turned it back on all tracks were disarmed and USB-c was switched from power only to audio.  I noticed the green battery meter was low.  I had to re-set USB-c to power only and then unplug and re-plug the power cable on the USB-A end to get the MP6 to see the external power again.  This may have been an oversight in my part after changing settings to default.

 It took a couple of songs before I noticed the tracks were disarmed.  The meters bump and the knob LEDs light up whether it is rolling or not.  The only indication a track is armed is the tiny track number lit red on the touchscreen unless you press a channel knob and check there.  The Wingman app saved my ass as that is where I noticed that they were disarmed.

Have you saved all your settings as a preset? I've done that with my own setup, and then I re-load that preset each time I power up. Always works.

My headphone preset (so as to hear the ISO tracks when the LR MIX is not being recorded) is always retained and never has to be re-selected.


So to be clear, all that it retains upon a power cycle is the saved preset file, which you have to manually re-load?  It otherwise defaults to factory settings, and doesn't simply restore the previous state like most other modern recorders?  That sounds annoying.  I like the preset idea, but it shouldn't default to factory unless you specifically tell it to.

I wonder if this is by design, and part of SD making these accessible to less-experienced people - i.e. if you set something incorrectly and don't know how to get it back, just power cycle and you're back to factory defaults.  IMO, that behavior should only happen if you're in Basic mode, if at all.

Actually, no, it doesn't go back to factory defaults. But there's no display of which preset I'm in, so I find it safer to reload the one I want from the list.

OK, that's a relief.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
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Offline edtyre

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2017, 03:53:41 PM »
So I'm intrigued at the idea of one box that might sounds better than mics>warm mod 661, but is the mix pre 3 pocketable? I would  Be running nbobs>PFA>MP3. Just not a funny pack kind of guy.  ;D

It's not pocketable unless you have huge cargo shorts kinda pockets, but a small fanny pack is doable. I have stubby xlr's connected to the mp3 and the pfa's in a separate compartment on my setup.
The pfa's stick out too far when plugged straight into the mp3.
Here's a sample of my first show : https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/mojo-hand
What my pack looks like with Roland R-05 for size comp
Also.....you can pretty much get close on the gain after running once or twice. Just start and stop from phone app. No need to open the bag for pros :-)

« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 04:04:46 PM by edtyre »
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2017, 04:06:53 PM »
Thanks man.
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

 

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