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Author Topic: Extreme Bass  (Read 1310 times)

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Offline Cheesecadet

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Extreme Bass
« on: June 23, 2017, 12:46:20 PM »
Was at a show last night way FOB and the bass was insanely loud…chest thumping loud all night long.  I don’t know how the people around me could even listen without earplugs.  Totally crazy. 

I was running the DPA4061s and am curious what the best way to reduce the bass and bring the overall volume of the whole show up.  It just has that low distant sound because the bass frequencies took over everything. 

I have toyed around with EQ a bit and rolled off everything below 45hz and then amplified the whole show and it definitely sounds better, but I am wondering if there are any experts out there that may have some better suggestions.  Trying not to raise the noise floor too much.  I am using Adobe Audition CS6 as my DAW if that matters.

Thanks!
12/15 SK&F, 12/16 SK&F, 01/04 Billy Shaddox, 01/10 Big Brazilian Cheese, 02/12 Justin Furstenfeld, 02/22 Trout Steak Revival, 03/30 Dead Phish Orchestra

Offline Craig T

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2017, 02:24:21 PM »
dynamic EQ would probably help
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2017, 02:59:56 PM »
I like filters better than eq for this sort of thing.  Audition's FFT filter is really useful.
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline Craig T

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2017, 03:14:39 PM »
I like filters better than eq for this sort of thing.  Audition's FFT filter is really useful.

I believe Audition's FFT is an EQ tool.

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2015/8/10/izotope-explain-what-dynamic-eq-is-and-how-to-use-it
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Apogee Mini-MP / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Tascam DR-70D

Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2017, 04:17:48 PM »
Multi band compressor
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 05:10:25 PM »
I like filters better than eq for this sort of thing.  Audition's FFT filter is really useful.

I believe Audition's FFT is an EQ tool.

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2015/8/10/izotope-explain-what-dynamic-eq-is-and-how-to-use-it

Well technically but it is a bit easier to be precise with and seems to give better results IME. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 05:54:34 PM »
High pass, shelf, and peak are all filters, just different shapes.

I generally prefer minimum-phase parametric filters (standard parametric EQ) to fine tune the curve for correcting low frequency problems by ear.  High-pass/low-cut (same thing) filters are way too blunt an instrument for me.

But with extreme bass and the DPA omnis which have flat sensitivity to way down low and soak it all up, I've found things can get weird with the necessary EQ corrections required to clean up the recordings for normal playback.  I've not analyzed that deeply as I don't record in those situations very frequently, but I suspect the issue may be the large phase shifts introduced by minimum-phase filters making such high magnitude corrections.

I suspect a linear-phase EQ filter may work better.  Indeed FFT filters are linear phase as I understand it.

Manipulation of the dynamics may also help. But I suspect EQ will be your first line of attack.  Multi-band compression is essentially dynamic EQ, with each band roughly corresponding to a wide graphic EQ channel.
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Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2017, 07:06:42 PM »
That helps. I find when I use hi pass filter it cuts levels by like 20db then I have to add gain back which raises noise floor to crappy levels (mainly during quiet parts)

Maybe those are just my presets tho?
12/15 SK&F, 12/16 SK&F, 01/04 Billy Shaddox, 01/10 Big Brazilian Cheese, 02/12 Justin Furstenfeld, 02/22 Trout Steak Revival, 03/30 Dead Phish Orchestra

Offline nassau73

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2017, 07:18:10 PM »
This isn't a direct answer to the original question but this you tube video gives an idea of all the possibilities (combining filters, eq, etc.)

In Audition, you can launch the mastering rack and stack up your different effects to see how they play against each other.

Anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjqIqv6lsz4

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 07:25:59 PM »
A dynamic linear-phase EQ may be an ideal tool for this.  No excess bass reduction during banter and the ambient stuff between tunes, but once the subs crank up the dynamic EQ squashes the excess bass back down to something far more manageable.  Then you can raise overall levels and not get as much hiss during quiet parts, partly because you are not cutting and then boosting, and partly because the quiet parts would be better EQ balanced and less EQ tilted towards the HF.
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Offline djphrayz

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2017, 07:50:55 PM »
Was this bass music (loosely defined genre of EDM)?  If so and you are distributing this music to fans of the genre, you may want to keep that in mind...

That being said, I wish to thank Mr. Bucket for his insightful contributions to this and every thread in which he participates.  His generosity with knowledge are a real blessing to TS, and I have learned a lot from him.  Thank you, sir!
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Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2017, 07:53:56 PM »
Was this bass music (loosely defined genre of EDM)?  If so and you are distributing this music to fans of the genre, you may want to keep that in mind...

That being said, I wish to thank Mr. Bucket for his insightful contributions to this and every thread in which he participates.  His generosity with knowledge are a real blessing to TS, and I have learned a lot from him.  Thank you, sir!

No not EDM, was the band Blue October seen them many times and this bass was absolutely insane...way louder than any other show I had ever seen.  Excrutiating actually...glad I had plugs but felt sorry for those around me who were cringing.
12/15 SK&F, 12/16 SK&F, 01/04 Billy Shaddox, 01/10 Big Brazilian Cheese, 02/12 Justin Furstenfeld, 02/22 Trout Steak Revival, 03/30 Dead Phish Orchestra

Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2017, 07:54:43 PM »
A dynamic linear-phase EQ may be an ideal tool for this.  No excess bass reduction during banter and the ambient stuff between tunes, but once the subs crank up the dynamic EQ squashes the excess bass back down to something far more manageable.  Then you can raise overall levels and not get as much hiss during quiet parts, partly because you are not cutting and then boosting, and partly because the quiet parts would be better EQ balanced and less EQ tilted towards the HF.

Is linear EQ something that can be done to the whole show at once or do I have to drill into the show at various parts manually.  Never really had to play around with that before.
12/15 SK&F, 12/16 SK&F, 01/04 Billy Shaddox, 01/10 Big Brazilian Cheese, 02/12 Justin Furstenfeld, 02/22 Trout Steak Revival, 03/30 Dead Phish Orchestra

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2017, 08:09:44 PM »
Yeah, you apply it just like regular EQ.  Some EQ plugins have both minimum-phase and linear-phase modes.  Some are just one or the other.  The dynamic EQ thing just engages the EQ filters based on threshold detection and applies it by degree like a compressor (it's basically frequency restricted compression).  The dynamic thing would just keep the non bass laden parts more natural sounding without excess bass reduction and without automation of the EQ, but that's gravy.

I'd try Audition's built in FFT filter like 'digitty mentions and see if that gets it under control.
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Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Extreme Bass
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 08:51:40 PM »
So this is what the FFT box looks like...kinda lost???
12/15 SK&F, 12/16 SK&F, 01/04 Billy Shaddox, 01/10 Big Brazilian Cheese, 02/12 Justin Furstenfeld, 02/22 Trout Steak Revival, 03/30 Dead Phish Orchestra

 

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