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Author Topic: Internal mics question  (Read 18891 times)

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Offline furburger

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2017, 07:07:43 AM »


Where does he say he had a bass roll off engaged?

My question is at what point did "Sonic Studios" become the standard to measure against? I had a set back in '91 for a while, sure they were easy to stealth, and made a halfway listenable recording at the time, but I'd hardly list them as "nice mics" and as a source Sonics are just above internals and I generally only grab them if they are the only source of I show I really want, or if all other sources are internals.


you must be in the minority then, as I sold a dozen pairs for Leonard in the 90's, and I know more tapers than not who consider them a pretty good standard, starting with their dynamic range.
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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline nak700s

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2017, 09:33:42 AM »


Where does he say he had a bass roll off engaged?

My question is at what point did "Sonic Studios" become the standard to measure against? I had a set back in '91 for a while, sure they were easy to stealth, and made a halfway listenable recording at the time, but I'd hardly list them as "nice mics" and as a source Sonics are just above internals and I generally only grab them if they are the only source of I show I really want, or if all other sources are internals.


you must be in the minority then, as I sold a dozen pairs for Leonard in the 90's, and I know more tapers than not who consider them a pretty good standard, starting with their dynamic range.

I have a pair of Sonics (6's I believe).  My taping partner in crime was initially given a pair of 5's to use and review.  He wanted a pair customized for his connecting needs, and they sent him a pair of custom 6's. They're custom cables and the right angle work was impressive, by the way.  Anyway, I ultimately ended up with the 6's and used them several times.  They're far better than any internal I've ever heard, but nowhere near a quality, full-size microphone.  They were built for stealth situations, and handle that exceptionally well, but fall short in sound.  They are way better than nothing, and worth using if a stealth mic set-up is required.
As for them being any kind of standard...they were, in my opinion, the beginning of a quality mic being made exclusively for stealth and ease.  But that is where it ends.  Compared to the options today, I do not believe they hold up.  There are "older microphones" (not stealthy), that hold up to the quality of today's standards, because they sound great.  On the stealth level, I do not believe Sonics hold up compared to more modern offerings in the same category.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2017, 10:26:20 AM »
you must be in the minority then, as I sold a dozen pairs for Leonard in the 90's, and I know more tapers than not who consider them a pretty good standard, starting with their dynamic range.

A lot has happened with technology the last twenty years. What was "pretty good" back in the 90's most likely can't compete with today's standards. Compare the Sonics with other stealth mics like Church Audio and it's obvious that things have developed for the better.
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2017, 12:13:17 PM »
you must be in the minority then, as I sold a dozen pairs for Leonard in the 90's, and I know more tapers than not who consider them a pretty good standard, starting with their dynamic range.

A lot has happened with technology the last twenty years. What was "pretty good" back in the 90's most likely can't compete with today's standards. Compare the Sonics with other stealth mics like Church Audio and it's obvious that things have developed for the better.

My Schoeps MK4 caps are 25 years old and sure hold their own.  I have a friend's pair of new MK4's and will be doing an A/B very soon.  The Sonic Studios are entry level stealth mics, nothing more.

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2017, 03:47:40 PM »
My Schoeps MK4 caps are 25 years old and sure hold their own.

They are bloody expensive caps so it would be really unfortunate if they didn't hold up to today's standards. :bigsmile:

I know they are used for stealth work, but just as my AKG CK61/63 caps, they are not as stealthy (size) as Church Audio, Audio Technica, Sonics and others. Comparing MK4 caps with Sonics is just...
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2017, 04:44:25 PM »
My Schoeps MK4 caps are 25 years old and sure hold their own.

They are bloody expensive caps so it would be really unfortunate if they didn't hold up to today's standards. :bigsmile:

I know they are used for stealth work, but just as my AKG CK61/63 caps, they are not as stealthy (size) as Church Audio, Audio Technica, Sonics and others. Comparing MK4 caps with Sonics is just...

They have held up well.  Mine have been used for enough shows that on a per show basis they are probably less than CA-11's for many.  No problem stealthing with MK4's, all I do.

Offline CRUNCHY WATER

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2017, 05:02:39 PM »
I had and used Sonic Studio DSM6s mics with and without the roll-off.  I also had Neumann KM140's and A lunatec V2.  The Sonics smoked the Neumann/Lunatec V2 in Sound quality. I pulled off my best sounding shows with the Sonics over the Neumanns.  Needless to say I sold the Neumanns and Lunatec V2 because I fell for the BS from the taping community regarding large rigs.  I had to find out the hard way that this was a HUGE waste of money for taping concerts. On that note....When I taped Gov't Mule back in the day with my Neumann rig, the tapers with their rigs were the biggest assholes that thought their gear was the best and they knew it all about mic placement and gain settings, etc.  Everyone at the time was checking the serial numbers on the Lunatecs to see who had the lowest serial number.  Mine was like #9 and I could care less, but it was a big deal to these idiots. I picked up a few of their tapes to see how they sounded and they sounded like shit for what they had running. Sonics all the way for my money. I'll bet if a show was done with Sonics and released with false info, nobody would even know. One can say it was taped with mics Elvis Presley used in Sun Studio run with a Neumann prototype Pre and everyone would be like "wow that shit sounds good". Sonics or bust.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 05:05:52 PM by CRUNCHY WATER »

Online Sloan Simpson

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2017, 05:05:29 PM »
lol
Neumann KM-184> Tascam DR-680

Online bombdiggity

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2017, 07:42:37 PM »
^^
a few words from a parallel community...   :shrug:
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2017, 06:55:30 AM »
No problem stealthing with MK4's, all I do.

Yes, I know, but some tapers think they're not stealthy enough. Which, in a way is hilarious comparing with the massive gear tapers and filmers had to sneak in to shows back in the days.  8)
It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline nak700s

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2017, 09:24:32 AM »
No problem stealthing with MK4's, all I do.

Yes, I know, but some tapers think they're not stealthy enough. Which, in a way is hilarious comparing with the massive gear tapers and filmers had to sneak in to shows back in the days.  8)

Back in the day was pre-9/11, things were different then, venues weren't being blown up.  Yes we snuck in full sized gear, and it wasn't small, but it's all relative.  Now we have metal detectors to deal with and security that are often trained to look for us.  It's doable under any circumstance now, in my opinion, but sizes is definitely a factor. 
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Online bombdiggity

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2017, 11:22:20 AM »
No problem stealthing with MK4's, all I do.

Yes, I know, but some tapers think they're not stealthy enough. Which, in a way is hilarious comparing with the massive gear tapers and filmers had to sneak in to shows back in the days.  8)

Back in the day was pre-9/11, things were different then, venues weren't being blown up.  Yes we snuck in full sized gear, and it wasn't small, but it's all relative.  Now we have metal detectors to deal with and security that are often trained to look for us.  It's doable under any circumstance now, in my opinion, but sizes is definitely a factor.

Not really a factor.  I waltzed through metal detector wands into B'more Arena in the 90's for Little Feat with a video camera, lens, camera batteries, a nakamichi mic, xlr cable, etc. 

In the 10's I unwittingly took the Schoeps, cables, r44, DVD battery and a tripod stand through a walkthrough.

It's all relative and maybe how they're set (see the other thread on security).  Nothing is a factor or a problem if you've done it often enough and apply all the techniques.  Size is so much less a factor now though. 

Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2017, 12:18:03 PM »
No problem stealthing with MK4's, all I do.

Yes, I know, but some tapers think they're not stealthy enough. Which, in a way is hilarious comparing with the massive gear tapers and filmers had to sneak in to shows back in the days.  8)

Back in the day was pre-9/11, things were different then, venues weren't being blown up.  Yes we snuck in full sized gear, and it wasn't small, but it's all relative.  Now we have metal detectors to deal with and security that are often trained to look for us.  It's doable under any circumstance now, in my opinion, but sizes is definitely a factor.

Before 9/11?  He is talking the real old days.  Shit, we stealthed with a PCM F-1/SL200 batteries, pre-amp and mics.  I brought that through the front door many times.  It IS doable to bring a Schoeps rig in path walk throughs and wands.  Check out my uploads the past 12 months.

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2017, 02:01:36 PM »
Before 9/11?  He is talking the real old days.  Shit, we stealthed with a PCM F-1/SL200 batteries, pre-amp and mics.  I brought that through the front door many times.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Damn, that gear was huge. That demanded admirable dedication. I started taping in 1992 and the Sony WM-D3 I used was really stealthy. Can't even imagine the effort bringing that gear in.  8)

It's not about fancy equipment. It's about the thrill, passion and hard work. Liberate the music!

"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

Offline nak700s

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Re: Internal mics question
« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2017, 02:34:03 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I should have been named Will, because where there's a will, there's a way.  I always got my stuff in, no matter the size or the metal detectors...I can write a book, believe me!  Nowadays though, they aren't looking for tapers as much as they're looking for bombs, guns, etc.  We live in a different world.  Not everyone is as capable as we are.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

 

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