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Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?  (Read 1372 times)

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Offline rappard

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Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« on: September 13, 2017, 06:13:52 AM »
My Edirol R-09 looks worse than Steve Bannon ;-) these days, so at some point I'll have to get a new solid-state recorder. Requirements:
* 24/96
* 3.5/6.3 mm microphone input
* Portable
* Also good for vinyl transfers

According to the What.CD (RIP) forums and here (e.g., http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175117), the M10 was great for making vinyl rips. But I didn't expect Sony to discontinue it. ;-(

After googling I've narrowed it down to one of the following:
* Roland R-05
* Tascam DR-2d
* Tascam DR-05
* Tascam DR-40
* Tascam DR-100mkII(I)

Partial to the R-05, but I'm open for suggestions. I've looked at the Marantz PMD line as well, but I think they're fairly unwieldy and above budget.

Additional question: would a simple 2xRCA => 3.5 mm cable suffice for going amplifier => solid-state recorder? If so, recommendations for brand(s)?

Current equipment:
* Microphone: Marantz EM-8 (6.3 mm jack)
* Turntable: Rega P3-24 + Heed Orbit 1 + Goldring 2100 or Ortofon 2M Blue
* Amplifier: Creek 5350SE + MM SE phono card

Offline acidjack

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 09:27:19 AM »
Do not under any circumstances buy garbage from Tascam. You will be sorry.

I'd recommend the Roland R-26. I've used it for both shows and vinyl transfers, and it's quite nice. Personally for a vinyl transfer I wouldn't want something that only had miniplug inputs, either.

That said, if you think the R-26 is overkill, the Roland R-05 will be a good, solid device that will be familiar to you as an R-09 user.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline rappard

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 10:36:09 AM »
Thanks for the reply.

Also considering these, since a store near work is selling these as B-stock at 50% off:
* Marantz PMD-561
* Marantz PMD-661

Online ilduclo

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 10:56:31 AM »
I'm looking at the r5, too, my d50 sony is getting long on the tooth. I think there's a lot of functionality on the r5 I'd likely not need, editing, reverb functions and all that, but looks to be a pretty decent rig, lots smaller than my sony, too.  I like that it uses AA's instead of proprietary battery pack. Can continue using my rechargeables. 

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/r-05/owners_manuals/

Offline dallman

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 11:30:05 AM »
Do not under any circumstances buy garbage from Tascam. You will be sorry.

I'd recommend the Roland R-26. I've used it for both shows and vinyl transfers, and it's quite nice. Personally for a vinyl transfer I wouldn't want something that only had miniplug inputs, either.

That said, if you think the R-26 is overkill, the Roland R-05 will be a good, solid device that will be familiar to you as an R-09 user.

I'd disagree with the Tascam knock. I have lots of decks and lots of Tascam decks and have never had any issues with any of my Tascam decks.

Your system seems very good for vinyl transfers and most if not all the decks mentioned would work very well with very slight differences in the end sound. So it really will come down to what you like for ease of operation and transfer. Those Marantz decks you mention are excellent. I do not know if the PMD661 is the MKIII, but if it is, the major differences between that and the PMD551 is that the PMD661 has file encryption and slightly different dimensions, so the PMD551 is probably a better choice as it costs less. Once the presets are set, the deck is a breeze to use, but without utilizing the presets, there are a lot of choices to make before recording so I'd say take the time for proper setup, and it is a great choice.

I use the R-05 a great deal, but pretty much for low profile situations because it is small, works great and is easy to use.

I would think that transfer via RCA to 1/4" TRS might be a bit better than the 3.5mm option. You could then go line in with any deck that has combo XLR/TRS inputs. Personally I'd pick up a used Tascam HD-P2  which these days sells for a fraction of it's value used and I would go with that. It just has great control and functionality for setting levels and if you ever switch to digital output, it has the option to work as a digital in (or out for that matter) bit bucket. One possible negative for some would be that it uses CF (compact flash) cards rather than SD cards and they tend to cost more and are slowly being phased out, but if you have an older DSLR camera, then you likely would have some of these laying around. My HD-P2 which I admit does not see much field use these days because of its size, has never rejected a single CF card so I have used to pretty inexpensive brands from eBay and Amazon.

I cannot give you the right answer for a good reason in that again most decks will do a great job with your setup, so look for whatever setup or features you think will fit with your desired uses for the deck and your recording needs.
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Offline rappard

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 11:41:44 AM »
Oddly enough the Marantz PMD-661 (indeed the mkIII) is the cheaper of the two, because it's priced at 50% off (as opposed to the PMD-551's 25%). They look a fair bit heavier than their "competitors", though.

Dumb/n00b question: "1/4" TRS" = standard 6.3 mm headphone jack?

Offline ben_r_

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 11:56:33 AM »
Thanks for the reply.

Also considering these, since a store near work is selling these as B-stock at 50% off:
* Marantz PMD-561
* Marantz PMD-661
! Who's got the PMD-661 half off?!

Offline dallman

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 12:57:42 PM »
Oddly enough the Marantz PMD-661 (indeed the mkIII) is the cheaper of the two, because it's priced at 50% off (as opposed to the PMD-551's 25%). They look a fair bit heavier than their "competitors", though.

Dumb/n00b question: "1/4" TRS" = standard 6.3 mm headphone jack?

There are no bad questions. You are correct. I'll confess I have never seen 1/4 inch it referred to as 6.3mm, which totally makes sense now seeing it, so that is good knowledge.
And since we throw TRS and TRRS around frequently for 3/8 inch(3.5mm)  and 1/4 inch, (6.3mm) here is what that means:
trs and trrs are different.

trs is 3pole (tip ring sleeve) (typically seen as one black band)
trrs is 4pole (tip ring ring sleeve)  (typically seen as two black bands)
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 03:19:46 PM »
I was using a PMD-661 OADE concert mod for analog transfers into 1/8" in.
I've switched to using my Tascam DR-680 as it has the dual XLR/TRS inputs. I use a pre-made (store bought) RCA to 1/4 inch TS into the Dr-680.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 02:02:20 PM by rocksuitcase »
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Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline jefflester

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 05:58:44 PM »
trs is 3pole (tip ring sleeve) (typically seen as one black band)
trrs is 4pole (tip ring ring sleeve)  (typically seen as two black bands)
TS is 2 conductor (tip sleeve) (one black band separating tip from sleeve) mono signal
TRS is 3 conductor (tip ring sleeve) (two black bands separating tip from ring and ring from sleeve) stereo signal or balanced signal <- typical headphone plug
TRRS is 4 conductor (tip ring ring sleeve) (three black bands) stereo signal including microphone back to source (usually 2.5mm or 3.5mm though), other less common uses (like Denon DTR-80P digital I/O). Rarely used/found in 1/4" plug.

TS:


TRS:


TRRS (3.5mm):
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 06:01:51 PM by jefflester »
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Offline dallman

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 06:45:15 PM »
^^^ +T   :coolguy: Much more clearly explained!
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 12:29:45 PM »
Do not under any circumstances buy garbage from Tascam. You will be sorry.

I'd recommend the Roland R-26. I've used it for both shows and vinyl transfers, and it's quite nice. Personally for a vinyl transfer I wouldn't want something that only had miniplug inputs, either.

That said, if you think the R-26 is overkill, the Roland R-05 will be a good, solid device that will be familiar to you as an R-09 user.

^^^ What he said ^^^

Looks aren't everything, but if the display on the R--09HR is so far gone, there isn't much of a choice.  I am so annoyed that they didn't use a better display that would last longer.  An R-26 is a phenomenal machine that won't let you down.  The R-05 is also great.  As for the small Tascam recorders, I have had issues in the past, but only for field recording.  I grew up on Tascam and TEAC and like the product, so I was disappointed that the build quality on these were so poor.  I am not speaking about the recording quality, only cheapness of the build...like buttons & dials falling off!  In all fairness, I have heard they made improvements, I'm just not willing to take a step backwards when I have better equipment now that I'm happy with.  The M-10 is an awesome machine, and economical if you can find one.  Given what you've said, I'd go with the R-26.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Online gewwang

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 12:48:38 PM »
And I've owned the TASCAM DR-100mkIII for a little over a year and have been very happy with everything about it, including build quality and the resulting recordings.

It provides two channels of 48V phantom, XLR inputs, powered by internal lithium as well as 2 AA rechargables, takes most SD cards, takes digital input from V3, able to pass thru wands, etc.

There's a thread for this recorder that's been going for the time it's been out and I haven't seen any complaints:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=178782.0

Maybe some of the other Tascam products came up short, but this is one of if not their latest and I still use it for situations when I'm unable to use my SD recorders.

Offline nak700s

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 02:08:14 PM »
And I've owned the TASCAM DR-100mkIII for a little over a year and have been very happy with everything about it, including build quality and the resulting recordings.

It provides two channels of 48V phantom, XLR inputs, powered by internal lithium as well as 2 AA rechargables, takes most SD cards, takes digital input from V3, able to pass thru wands, etc.

There's a thread for this recorder that's been going for the time it's been out and I haven't seen any complaints:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=178782.0

Maybe some of the other Tascam products came up short, but this is one of if not their latest and I still use it for situations when I'm unable to use my SD recorders.



As I wrote, "I have heard they made improvements.", and I meant that.  The older ones were falling apart, but it is my understanding that they are better made now, and have been for a couple of years.  I also stated, "I am not speaking about the recording quality, only cheapness of the build.", and I meant that too.  They weren't bad recorders, but they would often fall apart.  I also mentioned, " I have had issues in the past, but only for field recording.", meaning that since the OP is apparently using this at home, and not in the field, it may not be an issue for him.  I personally have no need for another recorder, but because of my personal experience with the small Tascam digitals, I would stick with something I have not had issues with, like Edirol /Roland and Sony.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Online gewwang

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 alternative for taping and vinyl transfers?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2017, 03:06:10 PM »
Build quality is very subjective. While some people are looking for solid build, others may be looking for something more light/portable.

While I've owned the Edirol R-1, R-09, and R-09HR and 2 of the Sony m10s, the Edirols were made of the flimsiest plastic I've ever felt.

I was a little surprised to see comments that Tascams have let people down on build quality due to my experiences with the Edirols and Tascam. I have no issues at all with the Sonys I own either (well except I always get nervous opening and closing the door to the miniSD card - that is flimsy).

 

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