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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4  (Read 15115 times)

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Offline noahbickart

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Re: MX POWER SLED - For MP-3/6
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2017, 11:57:33 PM »
https://www.trewaudio.com/product/cable-techniques-mx-powersled/?removed_item=1

Cool power solution for Mixpre3/6 and made in the US...I like the looks of this better than the similar Hawkwoods hack, PLUS this is more flexible voltage wise for battery options...

I'm puzzled by why one would buy these accessories, unless you have already bought into a distributed battery system.  If you were starting from scratch, wouldn't it be much cheaper to use an appropriate USB-C battery that supplies the correct voltage?

I'm with you 100%. The various USB-C Batteries are super inexpensive and run the mixpre6 forever.

Others have expressed concerns over the lack of a locking connector with USB-C. I've found a right angle cable solves all my problems. Others just want to use their current 9v or 12v batteries.
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Offline dallman

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Re: MX POWER SLED - For MP-3/6
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2017, 02:45:11 AM »
https://www.trewaudio.com/product/cable-techniques-mx-powersled/?removed_item=1

Cool power solution for Mixpre3/6 and made in the US...I like the looks of this better than the similar Hawkwoods hack, PLUS this is more flexible voltage wise for battery options...

I'm puzzled by why one would buy these accessories, unless you have already bought into a distributed battery system.  If you were starting from scratch, wouldn't it be much cheaper to use an appropriate USB-C battery that supplies the correct voltage?

I'm with you 100%. The various USB-C Batteries are super inexpensive and run the mixpre6 forever.

Others have expressed concerns over the lack of a locking connector with USB-C. I've found a right angle cable solves all my problems. Others just want to use their current 9v or 12v batteries.
Exactly! As far as I know only people that already have the Sony style batteries are exploring the less than perfect Hawkwoods options. It is unlikely anyone would seek those dated batteries out unless they already were using them. There are more and more USB C batteries hitting the market every day, and they are inexpensive and powerful.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: MX POWER SLED - For MP-3/6
« Reply #77 on: October 10, 2017, 06:33:10 AM »
https://www.trewaudio.com/product/cable-techniques-mx-powersled/?removed_item=1

Cool power solution for Mixpre3/6 and made in the US...I like the looks of this better than the similar Hawkwoods hack, PLUS this is more flexible voltage wise for battery options...

I'm puzzled by why one would buy these accessories, unless you have already bought into a distributed battery system.  If you were starting from scratch, wouldn't it be much cheaper to use an appropriate USB-C battery that supplies the correct voltage?

I'm with you 100%. The various USB-C Batteries are super inexpensive and run the mixpre6 forever.

Others have expressed concerns over the lack of a locking connector with USB-C. I've found a right angle cable solves all my problems. Others just want to use their current 9v or 12v batteries.
Exactly! As far as I know only people that already have the Sony style batteries are exploring the less than perfect Hawkwoods options. It is unlikely anyone would seek those dated batteries out unless they already were using them. There are more and more USB C batteries hitting the market every day, and they are inexpensive and powerful.

My comment was only directed at the Hirose adapters.  Actually the dual Sony battery sled looks attractive in the sense you can hot-swap with the dual battery mount and keep running all day.  The big downside is that those batteries with decent capacity are large and bulky.  The Hawk Woods SD-2 seems kind of silly by comparison, as you're spending $100 more to only mount one battery compared to the SD dual battery sled.

I suppose it would be just as easy to run off of USB-C batteries with the 8 x AA sled as backup, and you can hot-swap USB batteries as needed with the AA powering the brief periods during swaps.  If I end up buying one of these recorders, that's how I think I'd power it.

Too bad USB power isn't an option for the 10T.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: MX POWER SLED - For MP-3/6
« Reply #78 on: October 10, 2017, 07:17:16 AM »
https://www.trewaudio.com/product/cable-techniques-mx-powersled/?removed_item=1

Cool power solution for Mixpre3/6 and made in the US...I like the looks of this better than the similar Hawkwoods hack, PLUS this is more flexible voltage wise for battery options...

I'm puzzled by why one would buy these accessories, unless you have already bought into a distributed battery system.  If you were starting from scratch, wouldn't it be much cheaper to use an appropriate USB-C battery that supplies the correct voltage?

Some users want a locking power supply connector and the option to use other powering options.  They built this connector into the 10t. 

Various lights and monitors still use L series batteries.  Photographers who already have L batteries may prefer them over USB batteries especially if they don't trust the nonlocking  USB connector.

Offline waltmon

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2017, 08:08:37 AM »
I've been pretty lucky to date but a usb c connector is a bit shaky in the world of field recording...an opinion shared by more than just me. Im still really puzzled why they went that powering route
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2017, 08:37:23 AM »
I've been pretty lucky to date but a usb c connector is a bit shaky in the world of field recording...an opinion shared by more than just me. Im still really puzzled why they went that powering route

Maybe it depends on the cable, but I have to work pretty hard to get my USB-C connector out of the MP6 slot.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2017, 07:49:58 PM »
Here's a comp between the MP6 and the USBPre2, a short recording of acoustic piano.

COMP 1-A https://app.box.com/s/lj7a1k7ifelh3y271p7k944ngggkef5x

COMP 1-B https://app.box.com/s/6dcyz792iqb8ojiqe6dzg64a8r46h820

Beyerdynamic MC930's > ART Phantom Pro II > Y-cable split   > 1. to USBPre2 mic in > TASCAM DR100MK3 digital in;   &  > 2. to MixPre-6 mic in
 
Both recorded at 24/48.

One file is a bit louder than the other.

A river flows past my house. Not sure if it's audible on the tracks.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #82 on: October 13, 2017, 02:17:17 PM »

Can someone explain why this would be useful for me?  I typically run a cardiod pair and a MS pair.  The two are never close to being the same levels, really ever, especially the mid and side channels.  Why would I want to control gain on 4 mis-matched channels by just spinning a single knob?

I was happy to see that with the firmware update using the front panel knobs for gain, I can link channels 1/2, and then separately link channels 3/4. ISO (front panel) Knob 1 controls 1/2, and ISO (Front panel) knob 3 controls 3/4. That is exactly how I have used my Tascam DR680. I do not foresee ever linking all 4 together, at least not with my mic combos. I did not think to check if there is an option to link 5/6, I'll have to look at that tonight.

There is a specific linking option for m/s, so you could balance your M/S and control that with ISO 1, and then control your cardioid pair after balancing on ISO 3, so you would have 2 master balance controls instead of 4 separate controls.

Got my mp6 today!  quick question regarding linking channels.  Do you make sure they are matched and then enable linking or simply link ahead of time and use channel 2 or 4 to balance if they are off a little?
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Offline dallman

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #83 on: October 13, 2017, 04:50:31 PM »

Can someone explain why this would be useful for me?  I typically run a cardiod pair and a MS pair.  The two are never close to being the same levels, really ever, especially the mid and side channels.  Why would I want to control gain on 4 mis-matched channels by just spinning a single knob?

I was happy to see that with the firmware update using the front panel knobs for gain, I can link channels 1/2, and then separately link channels 3/4. ISO (front panel) Knob 1 controls 1/2, and ISO (Front panel) knob 3 controls 3/4. That is exactly how I have used my Tascam DR680. I do not foresee ever linking all 4 together, at least not with my mic combos. I did not think to check if there is an option to link 5/6, I'll have to look at that tonight.

There is a specific linking option for m/s, so you could balance your M/S and control that with ISO 1, and then control your cardioid pair after balancing on ISO 3, so you would have 2 master balance controls instead of 4 separate controls.

Got my mp6 today!  quick question regarding linking channels.  Do you make sure they are matched and then enable linking or simply link ahead of time and use channel 2 or 4 to balance if they are off a little?
It is a great question that I haven't had the time to figure out the answer to. It appeared to me that if I linked 2 channels, that there became significant differences in my balance between those 2 linked channels which I assumed was somehow based on the settings it was picking up from my pre-sets, but I couldn't be sure why linking appeared to create or change the balance between my 2 mics. It appeared to create a change as soon as I engaged the linking. I was linking 1-2, and linking 3-4, not all 4mics together, as mics 1-2 were Schoeps, and mics 3-4 were Busmans. Both sets appeared to show a disparity between channels as soon as they were linked. Further, I was wondering if knobs 2 and 4 were creating the disparity, as they were at the positions they had been in for gain on channels 2 and 4 before I linked the channels, I did not wind them down or center them. I didn't know if the pan would act like a balance control and therefore offset any difference, or if it would just throw my stereo image off. Because I was recording a live show and choose not to risk it or spend too much brain power trying to figure out what was happening or playing with the settings, I unlinked and used the deck as I had been using it. Then of course after the show I totally forgot to do any testing, so I wonder if others actually have specific answers. I was also thinking I'd ask Sound Devices for clarification, but this too slipped my mind. As you know setting up (in this case 6 mics) for a live show is not the best time to start to do analysis when something seems amiss, it's easier to just fall back on what is working if that is an option. 5 and 6 were linked too, but this is a moot point, because I run through a USB Pre2, and use the gain controls on the preamp as it is just easier than the gain controls on the MixPre for 5 and 6. That kind of renders my linking this channels useless.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #84 on: October 13, 2017, 05:32:59 PM »
Here's a comp between the MP6 and the USBPre2, a short recording of acoustic piano.

COMP 1-A https://app.box.com/s/lj7a1k7ifelh3y271p7k944ngggkef5x

COMP 1-B https://app.box.com/s/6dcyz792iqb8ojiqe6dzg64a8r46h820

Beyerdynamic MC930's > ART Phantom Pro II > Y-cable split   > 1. to USBPre2 mic in > TASCAM DR100MK3 digital in;   &  > 2. to MixPre-6 mic in
 
Both recorded at 24/48.

One file is a bit louder than the other.

A river flows past my house. Not sure if it's audible on the tracks.

Both sound very good, but surprisingly different given that there's only a 0.5 dB difference in level.  It almost sounds like two takes where the mics were moved slightly.

Never having heard either preamp, I can't tell which is which.  I'll only comment that File A has a fatter/thicker tone but I suspect B may be closer to reality.

Nice playing and nice piano also.  Yamaha?
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #85 on: October 13, 2017, 07:42:16 PM »

Got my mp6 today!  quick question regarding linking channels.  Do you make sure they are matched and then enable linking or simply link ahead of time and use channel 2 or 4 to balance if they are off a little?

Further, I was wondering if knobs 2 and 4 were creating the disparity, as they were at the positions they had been in for gain on channels 2 and 4 before I linked the channels, I did not wind them down or center them.

That was it and that pretty much answers my question!  2 and 4 need to be at 12 o'clock for the balance to be centered.  so depending where you had the gain knobs it either unbalanced right or left right away.  so it does sound like we need to link beforehand or we'll see what you saw.
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #86 on: October 13, 2017, 08:35:12 PM »
Here's a comp between the MP6 and the USBPre2, a short recording of acoustic piano.

COMP 1-A https://app.box.com/s/lj7a1k7ifelh3y271p7k944ngggkef5x

COMP 1-B https://app.box.com/s/6dcyz792iqb8ojiqe6dzg64a8r46h820

Beyerdynamic MC930's > ART Phantom Pro II > Y-cable split   > 1. to USBPre2 mic in > TASCAM DR100MK3 digital in;   &  > 2. to MixPre-6 mic in
 
Both recorded at 24/48.

One file is a bit louder than the other.

A river flows past my house. Not sure if it's audible on the tracks.

Both sound very good, but surprisingly different given that there's only a 0.5 dB difference in level.  It almost sounds like two takes where the mics were moved slightly.

Never having heard either preamp, I can't tell which is which.  I'll only comment that File A has a fatter/thicker tone but I suspect B may be closer to reality.

Nice playing and nice piano also.  Yamaha?

Thanks very much for your comments. It is only a single take but they do sound quite different as you say.

The piano does have that Yamaha crispness but it's an English manufacturer, Danemann, who used to make a lot of instruments for the Tropics and ocean liners. Mine, a 6'7" grand made in the 50's, has the soundboard screwed down in many spots, perhaps to keep it from warping in severe humidity. It has a terrific action, very chunky and responsive.

It probably doesn't matter whether this is a blind test or not. So I'll say your description of File A is very apt for the smooth nature of the MixPre-6. Some have said that the USBPre2 is similar to the 788T preamps. Do owners of that recorder find it to be more clinical and, as you say, "closer to reality"?

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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #87 on: October 13, 2017, 09:14:32 PM »
Neither file has digital harshness that seems to affect some piano recordings.  Of the two, I like A better because it seems to have a fuller presence. 

Offline voltronic

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #88 on: October 13, 2017, 10:01:17 PM »
Here's a comp between the MP6 and the USBPre2, a short recording of acoustic piano.

COMP 1-A https://app.box.com/s/lj7a1k7ifelh3y271p7k944ngggkef5x

COMP 1-B https://app.box.com/s/6dcyz792iqb8ojiqe6dzg64a8r46h820

Beyerdynamic MC930's > ART Phantom Pro II > Y-cable split   > 1. to USBPre2 mic in > TASCAM DR100MK3 digital in;   &  > 2. to MixPre-6 mic in
 
Both recorded at 24/48.

One file is a bit louder than the other.

A river flows past my house. Not sure if it's audible on the tracks.

Both sound very good, but surprisingly different given that there's only a 0.5 dB difference in level.  It almost sounds like two takes where the mics were moved slightly.

Never having heard either preamp, I can't tell which is which.  I'll only comment that File A has a fatter/thicker tone but I suspect B may be closer to reality.

Nice playing and nice piano also.  Yamaha?

Thanks very much for your comments. It is only a single take but they do sound quite different as you say.

The piano does have that Yamaha crispness but it's an English manufacturer, Danemann, who used to make a lot of instruments for the Tropics and ocean liners. Mine, a 6'7" grand made in the 50's, has the soundboard screwed down in many spots, perhaps to keep it from warping in severe humidity. It has a terrific action, very chunky and responsive.

It probably doesn't matter whether this is a blind test or not. So I'll say your description of File A is very apt for the smooth nature of the MixPre-6. Some have said that the USBPre2 is similar to the 788T preamps. Do owners of that recorder find it to be more clinical and, as you say, "closer to reality"?

Hmm, never heard of that maker.  Soundboard screwed down, you say?  That's certainly unusual but clearly it works.  I was thinking that the sustain of the bass reminds me of my Yamaha U1 upright.

Perhaps I should explain my "closer to reality" statement.  The "fat" sound of A is the one I preferred, but piano recordings in home studios tend to sound a bit thin at times, and not knowing your instrument I thought B was the "un-hyped" version. 

I'm still surprised how different these two files sound.  It almost sounds like two different mic positions.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 4
« Reply #89 on: October 13, 2017, 10:06:35 PM »
Here's a comp between the MP6 and the USBPre2, a short recording of acoustic piano.

COMP 1-A https://app.box.com/s/lj7a1k7ifelh3y271p7k944ngggkef5x

COMP 1-B https://app.box.com/s/6dcyz792iqb8ojiqe6dzg64a8r46h820

Beyerdynamic MC930's > ART Phantom Pro II > Y-cable split   > 1. to USBPre2 mic in > TASCAM DR100MK3 digital in;   &  > 2. to MixPre-6 mic in
 
Both recorded at 24/48.

One file is a bit louder than the other.

A river flows past my house. Not sure if it's audible on the tracks.

Both sound very good, but surprisingly different given that there's only a 0.5 dB difference in level.  It almost sounds like two takes where the mics were moved slightly.

Never having heard either preamp, I can't tell which is which.  I'll only comment that File A has a fatter/thicker tone but I suspect B may be closer to reality.

Nice playing and nice piano also.  Yamaha?

Thanks very much for your comments. It is only a single take but they do sound quite different as you say.

The piano does have that Yamaha crispness but it's an English manufacturer, Danemann, who used to make a lot of instruments for the Tropics and ocean liners. Mine, a 6'7" grand made in the 50's, has the soundboard screwed down in many spots, perhaps to keep it from warping in severe humidity. It has a terrific action, very chunky and responsive.

It probably doesn't matter whether this is a blind test or not. So I'll say your description of File A is very apt for the smooth nature of the MixPre-6. Some have said that the USBPre2 is similar to the 788T preamps. Do owners of that recorder find it to be more clinical and, as you say, "closer to reality"?

Hmm, never heard of that maker.  Soundboard screwed down, you say?  That's certainly unusual but clearly it works.  I was thinking that the sustain of the bass reminds me of my Yamaha U1 upright.

Perhaps I should explain my "closer to reality" statement.  The "fat" sound of A is the one I preferred, but piano recordings in home studios tend to sound a bit thin at times, and not knowing your instrument I thought B was the "un-hyped" version. 

I'm still surprised how different these two files sound.  It almost sounds like two different mic positions.

Lol. They sound the same to me (iPhone > usb CarPlay > crappy car speakers).

Both sound great but I can’t discern a difference.

 :shrug:
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