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Author Topic: Microphone clipping?  (Read 8108 times)

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Offline Wiggler

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Microphone clipping?
« on: May 23, 2003, 10:01:23 AM »
How do you know when your mic is starting to clip from spl.
How do you determine when it is required to use -10 db pad on microphone body? Is microphone clipping something that is all or nothing and is it noticeable as the levels hit your max spl that your mics can handle. Does it come on gradually and get stronger as levels increase?
Is it possible that your mics could be clipping at a show and you not be aware of it because it is at the point just above what mics can handle and is barely noticeable but still affects the quality of sound?

jpschust

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2003, 10:28:35 AM »
generally, with the mics we use in the field it is your pre or your a/d clipping, not your mics.  mics can handle VERY VERY loud noise, but pre's and a/ds cannot.... this is for most of the mics we use, however there are a few exceptions- the soundfield's, ribbon mics, etc.

Offline plucks

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2003, 03:23:29 PM »
While it is possible to overload a microphone, which usually starts no sooner than 125 db - more often at 130 db, the professional grade mics that most of us use are easily able to handle “normal” concert levels, around 100 db at front of house..  As jpschust said, “it’s very rarely from the mics.”

For reference SCI is usually no more than 103 db, Phish is similar..  Even WSP doesn’t exceed 108 db too often. Of course, being closer to the system may mean that the sound is louder but it would be quite rare, and VERY PAINFUL, to have levels above 115-120dB for very long.

Basically, clipping is from having the levels running too hot in the pre-amp.  It creates that static/distorion sound, which almost always hurts, more than loud music :) .  

Commonly it caused by running excessively hot levels - the combination of mic sensitivity and gain - through a pre-amp. Clipping is all or nothing only at the points that exceed the pre-amp’s range.  Any audio under the clipping point will sound find but the clipped material will generally sour the recording.

In a case like running into the microphone inputs of a deck (M1 or DA-P1 for example) to reduce the risk of clipping on the inputs to the pre-amp with sensitive/hot output mics and loud source material, you can run the pad on the microphone or front-end of the pre-amp  or deck, if available.  When using the pad, it drops the initial levels to avoid "brickwalling" (clipping) which is when the levels look like they arent moving and results in a staticy/distortioned sound.  

The clearest indicator of clipping is “overs” in the digital domain, or limited meter movement.

So, clipping is most frequently the result of the user setting levels too hot on the pre-amp and generating levels beyond what the pre-amp was intended to do.  Mics can distort but only under extreme circumstances that we don’t usually endure as tapers.

I hope this helps.

PhiL and Marc
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Offline wbrisette

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2003, 04:02:58 PM »

The clearest indicator of clipping is ?overs? in the digital domain, or limited meter movement.


One thing to remember as well is depending on your gear, your meters may never hit the over if the microphone reacts very fast these transient overs are very audible, but you'll have no clue that these are occurring looking at the meters alone.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline plucks

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2003, 04:27:35 PM »
Yes, this is what was meant by limited meter movement
The levels don't peak, but they also aren't very dynamic.  A good sign of clipping/brickwalling


Phil
« Last Edit: May 23, 2003, 04:28:31 PM by plucks »
"Then you have those who are completely loyal to Trey. Of course, they are the Republicans. Trey can play horribly, make mistakes, probably lie to the audience yet his backers will not waiver in their staunch support of him." | You may ask your self, how do you get a free bottle of champagne at dinner?  "Guest on Guest Violence"
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Offline hippies

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2003, 05:58:33 PM »
thanks, Phil and Marc!   8)

~S

Offline ducati

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2003, 07:30:08 PM »
Remember that SPLs are averaged across a frequency spectrum.    Certain frequencies may be higher in loudness, and some, when high enough, can clip mics depending upon the mic's sensitivity at those frequencies.

When I used to run AT853's, I would occasionally get mic clipping on heavy HEAVY loud bass.  Only happened a few times, never saw any clips on the level meters, and it wasn't the pre clipping.  They just didn't do heavy bass well, and would occasionally distort.  A werid sound, too.

Offline Wiggler

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2003, 01:01:38 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.
 I always fiqured at the big shows the levels never get that high but in small clubs it sounds much louder than the big venues.

jpschust

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2003, 01:06:10 PM »
to put it in perspective the loudest small show ive ever been to hit 111 db... mickey hart and bembe orisha at the state in dc... my ears were ringing with the plugs in em!!!!

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2003, 11:15:04 AM »
For compex sounds (like vocal clusters and some organ sounds) you can get distorsion in the microphone way below clipping. And there is nothing to do about that except getting yourself some better mics...

Offline plucks

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Re:Microphone clipping?
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2003, 12:27:27 PM »
The instances of mics distorting during heavy bass, etc..., is what I was referring to earlier with the mics not being able to handle what sounds were being played from the PA.  As BasPer said, "get yourself some better mics"
Phil
"Then you have those who are completely loyal to Trey. Of course, they are the Republicans. Trey can play horribly, make mistakes, probably lie to the audience yet his backers will not waiver in their staunch support of him." | You may ask your self, how do you get a free bottle of champagne at dinner?  "Guest on Guest Violence"
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