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Author Topic: Berliner CM-33 mics?  (Read 19577 times)

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Offline Nick's Picks

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Berliner CM-33 mics?
« on: June 06, 2006, 05:40:27 PM »
what the hell are these?
http://tinyurl.com/o9fth
LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

Offline OOK

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2006, 08:33:36 PM »
I just saw them too,  last night.... :hmmm:
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2006, 05:56:08 PM »
Looks like the seller is the one that makes em?

Probably vanilla like every other mic copy out there..

Offline dallman

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2006, 05:27:06 PM »
what the hell are these?
http://tinyurl.com/o9fth

I bought a pair (of Berliner CM 33's) on eBay, pretty much took a big chance after looking for any and all info I could find. I did not even mention it to anyone in our large MN taping community until I had them in hand. I knew it was a chance, but I liked what I heard sampled on their incomplete website, and while if it was a setup I was burned, I hoped it was not. Now after using the mics for a while, I am confident enough to say that they are really nice mics.

I have not used them enough to feel knowlegable about them yet, but I have gotten nice clean crisp recordings in a variety of situations. For instance, here is a link to Umphrey's McGee, recorded outdoors in a huge unruly crowd. No post was done or needed.

http://www.archive.org/details/umg2006-08-31.flac

The results are nice. I have received good feedback from downloaders of the show. I will continue to play with the mics, and hope that I am at the beginning of something nice in the mic world. ;D

The company Berliner is trying hard to get off the ground. They have attempted (my opinion) to put forth a microphone with crisp clear clean sound at a reasonable price (well they are not for sale yet, but they should be reasonable).

The mics that leaked out on eBay, like the ones I bought, were largely a result of the company trying to get samples out and find distributors. It seems like some of those people just took advantage of an opportunity to make some quick cash. the claims made were the claims of someone trying to make a sale, and from what I have learned, had nothing to do with the company Berliner at all.

In my quest to find out more, I did uncover a name and email address for the company. I wrote to David Cohen, and told him of my "gamble"  :sick: and asked about specs etc.

It took a few days, but I got a great response today, and will share it below along with my original email. Also it is nice to see that this manufacturer is looking to people like ourselves for feedback and support.

Below is the paste of the response from Berliner and below that my original email:

Hey There Clifford!

I am so sorry I am just now getting back to you! Please accept my sincere apologies.  I was out of the country for 10 days then in LA for about a week.  I am in Orlando now at one our offices and would be happy to forward you the official specs of the CM33. 

I am glad to hear that you are happy with the mics.  We are putting a lot of work into launching the new company and hope that all the new audio products we introduce exceed
the industry's high standards and expectations.   We really count on people like yourself to
help us get to where we are going.  Real people putting the products to real tests! 

I would be delighted to have you share your experiences and opinions on the CM33 publicly. 
Also, I would be happy to provide you with future products at dealer cost if you plan to test them and share your honest opinions about them with the audio community.  I offer you this because you purchased the mics without knowing much, if anything, about Berliner Microphones and because you took a chance many would not take before knowing more. 
You also were among the very first to use the mics.

I will send you specs in a separate email.  :)

Thanks again Clifford.

Have a great week and please keep in touch.

Best Regards,
David Cohen
Berliner, USA


> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
> Hi David,
>

>
> I am an avid music buff, and record live music for many bands in the
> Twin Cities at clubs as well as national band that allow recording. I
> purchased a set of Berliner CM-33's off eBay from Dana at envision
> music group. I thought it was a gamble, based on the lack of
> information, but the sound tests really were nice, and I took a big chance.
>

>
> So far I have been able to use them a few times, and the results are
> impressive. They are working nicely in the field and have excellent
> clarity. I am active in many taper groups, particularly
> taperssection.com, and more recently discovered gearslutz. I have yet
> to chime in on these sites regarding your mics, but would have nothing
> but positives to say. I can also tell you that there is already
> interest from the MNTapers group (yahoo), but I have explained how I
> got the mics and that you are not ready to roll yet.
>

>
> My reason for writing, is to ask if there is any technical info or
> specs that you can send to me. I would love any documentation that you
> could supply as my mics came with none.
>

>
> If there is anything I can do as your roll out comes around, please
> let me know. I would be happy to spread the word on your mics when you
> are ready for that to happen, and I wish you great success in this venture.
> Thanks!
>

>

« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 04:50:19 PM by dallman »
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Offline kgreener

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2006, 05:55:49 PM »
damn, this show sounds nice.  +t for taking a chance on an unknown mic!

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2006, 12:00:01 AM »
damn, this show sounds nice.  +t for taking a chance on an unknown mic!

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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2006, 07:31:12 AM »
nice!
+T
LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

Offline Shawn

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006, 07:44:28 AM »
dallman  - that show does sound really nice.

Offline dallman

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 11:17:06 AM »
Thanks for the feedback on the Umphrey's show. I have another pretty interesting one I need to upload too, STS-9 at First Ave in Mpls, Sept 15 2006. Also I thoght the mics really impressive. However I used my new Tascam HD P2 and tried the bass roll off on the Tascam, which I think took out too much bass (the show was bassey to the point of distortion, my blood vessels were vibrating). Still, it is a great sounding show and agin the mics had a wonderful clarity. I'm not going to touch it in post.

When I get the show uploaded, I'll let you know. I really appreciate the feedback!! ;D

UPDATE: Here is the Sound Tribe Sector 9 (STS-9) show.  :headphones:
http://www.archive.org/details/sts92006-09-15.STS9AUDflac16

« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 12:23:08 AM by dallman »
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Offline hammerhorror

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 08:59:37 AM »
I recently sent an email to Berliner about how and when I could purchase a pair of these mics. They are currently offering a pre-launch price on the matched stereo pairs for $450.00. That sounds like a great deal to me based on the two samples I have listened to so far.
I think I may pick up a pair at this price and try them out with different pres, etc., and see what they sound best with. Dallman, thanks for the recording samples and info you have posted on these mics.

Here is the email I received:

"Hi John, thanks for the email.  You can get a set of the CM33s now with full one year warranty etc.  We are in the process of pre launch and now putting advertisement, media and technical details together.  We are also in the process of rolling out other mic models so it has been a lot of work, to say the least.

You can send an email to sales@vintagesonics.com to request a special pre-launch price and they currently do have the mics in stock to ship immediately.  The retail price for the mics will be $649.  You can get them for $450 I believe.

This past week we recorded a string quartet in San Francisco with the CM33’s and will be making available these sound samples in the coming week.  We also tested the CM33’s on broadcast cameras with filmmakers in New York replacing the included stereo mics on their broadcast quality cameras with great success!  Actually in every case the CM33 blew away the mics that came with the cameras either built-in or optional accessory

The CM33’s are really being put to every recording situation imaginable all with better than average results.  We will keep you posted on further developments.

Thank you for your interest and best of luck.  Please don’t hesitate to email me with any further questions or comments.  We are traveling quite a bit at this time but will do our best to answer any questions or concerns you may have in a timely fashion.

Best Regards,
David Cohen
Berliner, USA"


Mics: Schoeps MK4 & MK41, AKG CK63 (Naiant Actives)
 
Preamps: Naiant KCY Littlebox

Recorders: Sound Devices 664, Sony PCM-M10

Offline flipp

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2006, 11:09:39 PM »
Does anyone have contact info other than info@berlinerusa.com or sales@vintagesonics.com? I sent an email to berlinerusa on the 10th and to vintagesonics on the 11th, neither bounced but I have not received a reply for either one. Has anyone used the 800 number on berliner's home page?

Offline dallman

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2006, 12:32:45 PM »
Does anyone have contact info other than info@berlinerusa.com or sales@vintagesonics.com? I sent an email to berlinerusa on the 10th and to vintagesonics on the 11th, neither bounced but I have not received a reply for either one. Has anyone used the 800 number on berliner's home page?

I think the process is going to be slow until this company actually gets off the ground. I have another address, but I don't think it will be any quicker. Here it is:

support@berlinerusa.com

That was the address that my reply came from. I sent an email yesterday too with some more info and questions. I recorded Ratdog Sunday here in MN at the Fitzgerald Theater ;D. One of the Sound Engineers came over to me and said he noticed my mics, but did not recognize them. (How he spotted them to the point that he did not recognize them, I'll never know, even though they were right in front of the stage). Anyway, we talked for a while about the mics and he examined them, and asked if I'd send him a copy of the show for him to check the sound. I told him the vocals would be pretty non existant as the show was pulled off the stage, but he said he was interested in the sound quality of the mics and not the mix. He emailed me this morning just in case I had lost his address...(The recording it does sound really crisp and tight but also the tone is very sweet, not at all harsh and the vocals are totally from the mouth, not amplified at all, which is audible, but well behind the music.)

I let the company know that there is that kind of interest brewing.
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Offline dallman

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 04:19:59 PM »
I posted this Gov't Mule show on etree this morning:

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=502704&viewcomm=250604#comm250604

I have not heard anything about the Berliner's or the company. I get a lot of questions and comments when I use them, and everyone wants to hear a sample so here is another show to listen to. I really am pleased with the mics and the sound. Crisp and tight with nice tone. I hope that at some point the company does get these mics on the market.

In the meantime, I hope everyone enjoys this. ;D
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2006, 09:01:29 AM »
here's some more info on these bad boys.  specs and pricing (~$485 shipped): http://tinyurl.com/ybtobo



What's with this website?

They claim to have added the Berliners in January of 2006, and to have 432 sets in stock.  That doesn't sound very likely, given the info in this thread.

If you click on the product list for preamps or microphones, all you get is a list of cell phones for sale.

Jeff

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2006, 10:27:09 AM »
conman-33  ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2006, 10:48:09 AM »
conman-33  ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D


I doubt it. I finally got a response to my inquiries and it seems the company has been moving into a new office ,the principles had been on the tradeshow circuit as well as finding a full-time distributor. Don't know about the distributor but I'm guessing the move is complete by now. Anyway, I purchased a pair and am quite happy with what I've heard so far though it's only been a local bands very informal rehearsals. They may very well have 400+ sets in stock since the pair I received had serial numbers ~450 apart and the high number was just under 1200. Biggest problem I had was the initial contact. Once established, all subsequent dealings went without a hitch.

Offline dallman

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 11:26:47 AM »
conman-33  ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D


I doubt it. I finally got a response to my inquiries and it seems the company has been moving into a new office ,the principles had been on the tradeshow circuit as well as finding a full-time distributor. Don't know about the distributor but I'm guessing the move is complete by now. Anyway, I purchased a pair and am quite happy with what I've heard so far though it's only been a local bands very informal rehearsals. They may very well have 400+ sets in stock since the pair I received had serial numbers ~450 apart and the high number was just under 1200. Biggest problem I had was the initial contact. Once established, all subsequent dealings went without a hitch.

I agree, I bought my set off eBay and it was a total gamble. I liked the samples a lot, but was wary due to the incomplete website. I did get ahold of David Cohen, and he was very appreciate, and very frank. It sounds like they had some mics go out and the people who re-sold them were not the most reputable. The company made it clear thay want as much distance from those types of reps as possible.

I have been really happy with the mics, and I have shared as much as possible with my MN Tapers, and tried to post and get honest opinions on what others think of the mics. I know I am going to be a "little biased", because they are my mics, but I have gotten great feedback from a lot of sources that have been positive. Also in situations like the Gov't Mule concert I just posted, there were lots of us clamped to the same pole, so the good sound and very positive feedback is in comparison to some very identical recordings (placement-wise).

Anyway, I am hoping the company gets up and running. The more info and feedback, the better. Also, I am hoping that other caps hit the market at some point.

Per a request, I also posted the warm-up band (Donavon Frankenreiter)from the Gov't Mule show I posted yesterday. It is a smaller torrent, so feel free to give it a listen. 8)
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=502727

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Offline rodeen

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 11:56:33 AM »
conman-33  ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think it stands for the CliffMxxxx-33  :-)
I'm holding out for the RO-48 model. 

All kidding aside, I've had a chance to hear just about everything Cliff has taped with the CM-33's and I like the sound of them.  They are bright and detailed sounding which is something I like.  Then again, Cliff can make good tapes with a couple of tin cans and some bailing wire.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 12:04:36 PM by rodeen »
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 12:03:48 PM »
Also in situations like the Gov't Mule concert I just posted, there were lots of us clamped to the same pole, so the good sound and very positive feedback is in comparison to some very identical recordings (placement-wise).

I'll post my 12/6/2006 Gov't Mule recording on bt.etree.org also to provide a good comparison.  Cliff had his CM-33's clamped on to my stand and we were both recording on HD-P2's standalone.  My mic cables might be a little more burned in than his so my recording might be a little warmer and less detailed as a result  :-)  Otherwise we had identical setup and location.



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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 12:45:30 PM »
I'll post my 12/6/2006 Gov't Mule recording on bt.etree.org also to provide a good comparison. 

Here's a link to my source:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=502729



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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 01:18:50 PM »
conman-33  ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think it stands for the CliffMxxxx-33  :-)
I'm holding out for the RO-48 model. 

All kidding aside, I've had a chance to hear just about everything Cliff has taped with the CM-33's and I like the sound of them.  They are bright and detailed sounding which is something I like.  Then again, Cliff can make good tapes with a couple of tin cans and some bailing wire.



 :o OceanSpray Cranberry->Twine-> Tacam HDP-2-> Trancend 4gb :o

My current avatar is from that same Gov't Mule Concert. Rodeen on the far left, and me on the far right. His copy of the show is very good and very different from mine. As Rick says, the only difference are the mics and the cables. A great way to get a feel for these mics!!

Somewhere I should have a good in use pic of the mics. Otherwise, next time out I'll take one.
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Offline flipp

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 01:25:53 PM »
I used the info@berlinerusa.com e-addy and got a response from David Cohen, the president of the company. He had me get in touch with envision music group who was the interim distributor. I have no idea if envision is stilll handling the mics or if Berliner has found a permanent distributor. I paid $450 for a set.

I'll post pics in a little bit. Any particular angle/components in particular you would like to see?


Offline flipp

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 02:09:37 PM »
Looks like the best view of the cap is a little out of focus. The scale in the background is an engineers scale and is in .1 of an inch. I'll have to retrieve the manual for the camera this evening to figure how to change resolution and can snap some more pics tonight or tomorrow morning. If you want anything in particular that isn't in this group, let me know and I'll do my best to get some decent pics.

http://flipp.home.telepath.com/CM33/

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2006, 08:31:07 AM »
you want the LSD
:)
LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2007, 06:48:40 PM »
Looks like the best view of the cap is a little out of focus. The scale in the background is an engineers scale and is in .1 of an inch. I'll have to retrieve the manual for the camera this evening to figure how to change resolution and can snap some more pics tonight or tomorrow morning. If you want anything in particular that isn't in this group, let me know and I'll do my best to get some decent pics.

http://flipp.home.telepath.com/CM33/

Not that it matters really, but that would be 1/10th of feet.  The mic body is .3ft or 3.5in.  I've held Dahlman's and they are nearly identical to the Neumann 184
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2007, 07:37:54 PM »
The upper scale in the pictures is in tenths (0.1) of an inch, not tenths of a foot. The numbers on the upper scale are inches. The lower scale is in fiftieths (1/50) of an inch. The mic body with cap attached is between 3.6 and 3.7 inches in length or 183/50 (3.66 inch). Without getting the calipers out of my toolbox, I'll call it 3 2/3 inches, or just slightly longer than my middle finger when I hold the mic in my hand.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2007, 12:41:03 PM »
Three shows recorded with these mics have been upped in the past week to bt.etree.org

just do a search for "berliner" if you are interested in hearing how these sound

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2007, 11:11:03 PM »
+t for upping examples of "off the radar" mics!

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2007, 06:58:55 AM »
tenths of a foot?
is that some sort of metric hybrid?
;-)
LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

Offline flipp

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2007, 10:17:14 AM »
+t for upping examples of "off the radar" mics!


Two of those shows were recorded and upped by dallman, only one is mine. I do have a Yonder Mountain show I'll get up eventually and a WSP show (Dallas 3-24-07) that I'll probably just snail untracked flac copies to anyone interested in comparing it to the three versions already up on bt, two of which were recorded within ten feet of my location.

Offline dallman

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2007, 03:50:01 PM »
+t for upping examples of "off the radar" mics!


Two of those shows were recorded and upped by dallman, only one is mine. I do have a Yonder Mountain show I'll get up eventually and a WSP show (Dallas 3-24-07) that I'll probably just snail untracked flac copies to anyone interested in comparing it to the three versions already up on bt, two of which were recorded within ten feet of my location.

I considered my purchase of the Berliner CM 33 mics a gamble. Now as it is about 10 months that I have had them, I have tried to be really critical and tried to look to others be really critical. The verdict so far is that they are a great deal, and well worth the money. They are very nice mics with crisp sound and very nice tones.I really am so pleased by my recordings with them. I don't know if the company will get off the ground, and it looks like they are slowly moving forward though. I never use my other mics anymore except for my little ones when I cannot openly record.

Here are the two latest shows I have upped. I have a few on Archive, but I find etree much easier to work with.
Check them out it was a great night. I still have one more band from that night to finish, and I am awaiting the setlist.

New Monsoon:http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=506838

ALO (Animal Liberation Orchestra) with New Monsoon jamming on final song:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=506840

Enjoy ;D
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2007, 07:57:20 PM »
Hey, if anyone has these, I'd like to see the insides: the board and a closeup of the capsule, front and back.

According to the specs, they are electret.  I wonder what kind of element is in there.

Also, are they made in Germany or China.  I'm a little suspicious of that, a new "vintage looking" product, coming out of nowhere.

Also, I notice a similarity to Behringer C2, which is made by 797 China.  Now I'm sure they're much better (B2 are something like $70 a pair!) but the construction looks very similar.  Maybe they are a high end version made by 797 as well.  You might tell this by looking for etching on the board inside.

  Richard
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 08:00:34 PM by illconditioned »
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2007, 10:27:35 PM »
The best pic of the front of the cap I've found is http://www.berlinerusa.com/images/cm33_cap2.jpg Open it in a photo program and blow it up about 3-400% for a better look.

If I can borrow a digicam, I'll take some more pics of mine.

Offline GDfan

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2007, 10:38:13 PM »
washington music center just quoted me $439 shipped for the cm33 matched stereo kit.  i've been wanting to try a pair of these for at least a year but have held off because i haven't been able to find a legit distributor for them.  after doing some research i found that washington music is one of only two rickenbacker dealers in maryland.  has anyone ever dealt with washington music before?  i'm going to give them a call in the morning and see what's up.    :hmmm:

Tim, I have been there in person. Its a great place. very reputable, they have been serving the greater DC area for yaers.
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2007, 01:40:39 AM »
The best pic of the front of the cap I've found is http://www.berlinerusa.com/images/cm33_cap2.jpg Open it in a photo program and blow it up about 3-400% for a better look.

If I can borrow a digicam, I'll take some more pics of mine.

Thanks.  From the look of that, it could be any capsule.  By the way, I'm not the only one to note similarity to Behringer C-2's.  Some people on Gearslutz pointed that out too.  Probably made at the 797 factory, but with higher end parts.  Rumour has it that Studio Projects C4 are made there too.  It is just crazy when the vendor (or sales agent?) on Gearslutz would not say where they were made.  I guess one assumes China unless otherwise stated!

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2007, 06:21:12 AM »
this company makes a couple of other models as well.....a U7 cardioid tube and U77 multi-pattern tube.
never heard any of them....i just see them in the industry magazines all the time these days.
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again, your showing your cluelessness.


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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2007, 08:17:15 AM »
Quote
Rumour has it that Studio Projects C4 are made there too.

That is no rumour, the entire Studio Projects line had "797audio" engraved on the mics.  They may have taken it off on the newer versions....
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2007, 08:33:20 AM »
washington music center just quoted me $439 shipped for the cm33 matched stereo kit.  i've been wanting to try a pair of these for at least a year but have held off because i haven't been able to find a legit distributor for them.  after doing some research i found that washington music is one of only two rickenbacker dealers in maryland.  has anyone ever dealt with washington music before?  i'm going to give them a call in the morning and see what's up.    :hmmm:

i've spent over $30k with them in the last 6 months. great people to deal with.
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again, your showing your cluelessness.


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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2007, 01:57:58 PM »
The best pic of the front of the cap I've found is http://www.berlinerusa.com/images/cm33_cap2.jpg Open it in a photo program and blow it up about 3-400% for a better look.

If I can borrow a digicam, I'll take some more pics of mine.

Thanks.  From the look of that, it could be any capsule.  By the way, I'm not the only one to note similarity to Behringer C-2's.  Some people on Gearslutz pointed that out too.  Probably made at the 797 factory, but with higher end parts.  Rumour has it that Studio Projects C4 are made there too.  It is just crazy when the vendor (or sales agent?) on Gearslutz would not say where they were made.  I guess one assumes China unless otherwise stated!

  Richard


The people on Gearslutz were just a wee bit cynical. No one there was interested in the quality or the sound, they just wanted to knock a company that I think is trying to get a quality mic into the field but may be perhaps underfunded. Maybe I am wrong on that, but it would seem that way. People on Gearslutz were all all over me for chiming in because my initials were the same as the cm in CM-33. I though cm might have more to do with Cardiod Mic, but I was slammed any time I responded. My entire premise is and has always been, check out the mics, they sound really nice. They seem very well constructed, although I have not taken mine apart. I often try and leave it to my MN taping buddies to tell me what they think of the recordings as they are going to be more objective, and the response has always been really positive. ;D
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Offline NSL

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2010, 05:08:39 PM »
Didn't see anything more recent on these mics.  Just came across these today and really like the sound from the shows i've heard on archive.  Going for $399 this month sounds like a hell of a deal.  Anybody that has used these before have any info on them? 
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since 1986 & digitally since 1995

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Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2010, 10:13:14 PM »
at $200 a piece - I'd go for the  CAD e70 dual cap card/omni condenser
thread here http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=122357.msg1631459#msg1631459

not as small but have omni card option. and can be had for $100 each and modded

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=128078.0

at full compass - amazon for $73.96
http://www.amazon.com/CAD-e70-Dual-Capsule-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B000ZK58NY
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 01:00:39 AM by ArchivalAudio »
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
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Offline newplanet7

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2010, 11:20:21 PM »
Wow. Those samples are great dallman. Are you still using these? I see you have a busman kit, how do these compare?
They definitely sound bright/clear.
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FYI, it is a kick ass recording of a bunch of pretend-a-hippies talking.

Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2010, 02:51:34 PM »
Wow. Those samples are great dallman. Are you still using these? I see you have a busman kit, how do these compare?
They definitely sound bright/clear.
I found this...
Quote
Rhythm Devils
August 23, 2010
The Cedar Cultural Center
Minneapolis, MN

Berliner CM 33 (Cards)>Busman Mod HD-P2, 24/48

http://www.youtorrent.com/music/7380768/the-rhythm-devils-cedar-cultural-center-mpls-mn-16bit-berliner-cm-33-cards

Looks like someone is using a similar rig...
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Offline perks

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2010, 02:55:46 PM »
The RD Minneapolis show was recorded by Dallman with his Berliners.
Mics: Schoeps MK5, Schoeps MK41, AT853u (C,SC,H)
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07

Offline NSL

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2010, 10:19:25 AM »
I'm running the Berliner CM-33's with a Littlebox and the results have been outstanding.  Heres a few shows that i've recorded with them-


Umphrey's McGee-
http://www.archive.org/details/UM2010-11-10

Chasing Edison (local band)-
http://www.archive.org/details/ce2010-10-29
http://www.archive.org/details/ce2010-11-05
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Offline kenirob

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2010, 11:00:54 AM »
Wow very nice
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Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2010, 01:49:02 PM »
I'm running the Berliner CM-33's with a Littlebox and the results have been outstanding.

do you have any pics of this setup that you could share?
Mics:
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2010, 02:17:10 PM »
^our buddy dallman runs the CM-33......   loves em.......  and I agree, they sound great!
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2010, 02:20:13 PM »
oh I knew that, just wanted some sexy pics of them bundled with a littlebox
 :P
Mics:
AKG ck91 actives
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Church CA 14 cards

Preamps:
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Church 9100
Church 9100 (for use with the ck91 mics only)

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Edirol R09

gear for sale:

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2010, 02:58:03 PM »
oh I knew that, just wanted some sexy pics of them bundled with a littlebox
 :P

always lookin for some eye-candy.....   ;)
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline Neilyboy

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2010, 04:24:54 PM »
Would be a nice portable rig though. too bad they couldnt run off the 12-16v the tinybox pushes..

neil
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Offline NSL

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2010, 02:06:29 PM »
oh I knew that, just wanted some sexy pics of them bundled with a littlebox
 :P

I'm out of town right now, give me a few days and i'll set them up and take a few pictures. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 02:08:05 PM by concordniners »
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2010, 05:49:46 PM »
Forgot all about this.  I'll try to get some pictures up tonight or tomorrow. 
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Berliner CM-33's > Naiant Littlebox > Sony PCM-M10

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2011, 07:28:37 PM »
Are these built in the same factory as the Avantone ck1, MXL 603, Nady CM-90, CAD GXL1200???
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2011, 07:58:49 PM »
Read this thread...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/old-new-product-alerts-moved-out-into-main-forums/82712-berliner-cm-33-compare-km84.html

...poster dcohen Technical Support and Sales for Berliner joined the discussion.
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Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Offline Javier Cinakowski

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2011, 09:56:59 PM »
whoa, that gearsluts thread reminds me of Karma Mics and sE electronics going at it...

Is the Behringer a terrible mic?  The Berliner sounds good to me...
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2011, 10:01:15 PM »
Yeah, the Berliner *may* sound OK, but there is really nothing to differentiate this from all the other Chinese SDC mics.

Really, I would trust Studio Projects, ADK, etc more than these guys.  At least they have a known product.  Maybe not great, but there is a name, and lots of people have used them.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2011, 01:39:46 AM »
Yeah, the Berliner *may* sound OK, but there is really nothing to differentiate this from all the other Chinese SDC mics.

Really, I would trust Studio Projects, ADK, etc more than these guys.  At least they have a known product.  Maybe not great, but there is a name, and lots of people have used them.

  Richard

Richard that's goofy. What differentiates it from other mics is the sound. Have you used them?

These Berliner mics are light years ahead of the Studio Projects C4.

Here's a show recorded with them
http://www.archive.org/details/um2010-06-05.berlinerCM33.flac16
MK41 > nBob > PFA > Aerco MP2/RAD MS2 > DR60d/DR2d
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2011, 01:48:31 AM »
Yeah, the Berliner *may* sound OK, but there is really nothing to differentiate this from all the other Chinese SDC mics.

Really, I would trust Studio Projects, ADK, etc more than these guys.  At least they have a known product.  Maybe not great, but there is a name, and lots of people have used them.

  Richard

Richard that's goofy. What differentiates it from other mics is the sound. Have you used them?

These Berliner mics are light years ahead of the Studio Projects C4.

Here's a show recorded with them
http://www.archive.org/details/um2010-06-05.berlinerCM33.flac16

OK, maybe I'm being too harsh.  I have not used them.

What I meant to say is, they are *likely* to be Chinese made mics, like many many others (ADK, Studio Projecs, etc).  We do not know whether they are better.  We don't know if there are any unique parts of the engineering or manufacture, or if the measured specifications are better.  I contrast these with companies that manufacture their own capsules, such as Neuman, Beyerdynamic, AKG, etc, where we have reasons for preferring one brand over another, for example for the sound, capsules, or accessories.

Now, if someone at Berliner said something about the actual capsule manufacture, such as a unique diaphragm material/construction, engineering, etc, I might believe them.

I guess time will tell.  If these sound significantly better in a side-by-side test (studio or field recording) that would be interesting.

  Richard
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 01:50:37 AM by illconditioned »
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Offline Javier Cinakowski

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2011, 11:40:38 AM »
"These Berliner mics are light years ahead of the Studio Projects C4."

Now that is a goofy staement.  I've tested the c4 against some wonderful mics, they hold their own.  From the samples I've listened too, these berliners are no akg480.    I've rarely heard a pair of mics that are "light years" better than anything.  I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't pick out a berliner recording if it were on the same stand as a pair of C4's.  I'd even be willing to bet that a cheap pair ok karma k10's would not be distinguishable.  This is esspecially true for pa concert recordings. 

I think we have another "discount mic of the month" on our hands here.  Its happened with c4's, pelusos and oktava's before that.  They are all a good value,but none if them are light years better than each other and none are going to replace akg or scheops.  There is no doubt that these chinese mics will depreciate like a used car over time. You will see the real mics hold their value.  This is a better indication of performance and value than any comment on taperssection.
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2011, 01:25:12 PM »
"These Berliner mics are light years ahead of the Studio Projects C4."

Now that is a goofy staement.  I've tested the c4 against some wonderful mics, they hold their own.  From the samples I've listened too, these berliners are no akg480.    I've rarely heard a pair of mics that are "light years" better than anything.  I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't pick out a berliner recording if it were on the same stand as a pair of C4's.  I'd even be willing to bet that a cheap pair ok karma k10's would not be distinguishable.  This is esspecially true for pa concert recordings. 

I think we have another "discount mic of the month" on our hands here.  Its happened with c4's, pelusos and oktava's before that.  They are all a good value,but none if them are light years better than each other and none are going to replace akg or scheops.  There is no doubt that these chinese mics will depreciate like a used car over time. You will see the real mics hold their value.  This is a better indication of performance and value than any comment on taperssection.

Also (I think) Berliner mics are not that cheap.  If they could compete on price (or accessories, like multiple capsules, or even active capsules), then they would be interesting.  Otherwise, I'm just skeptical.

Oh yeah, about "discount mic of the month", I think Oktava (and perhaps Peluso) *may* be above the rest.  Oktava is an established company, and their product *could* be good, if the quality control was there.  Peluso is interesting because they "skin" their own capsules.  That may or may not be an improvement over Chinese mics, but at least they have something new to bring to the table.

  Richard
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 01:28:17 PM by illconditioned »
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #62 on: January 25, 2011, 02:15:39 AM »
"These Berliner mics are light years ahead of the Studio Projects C4."

Now that is a goofy staement.  I've tested the c4 against some wonderful mics, they hold their own.  From the samples I've listened too, these berliners are no akg480.    I've rarely heard a pair of mics that are "light years" better than anything.  I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't pick out a berliner recording if it were on the same stand as a pair of C4's.  I'd even be willing to bet that a cheap pair ok karma k10's would not be distinguishable.  This is esspecially true for pa concert recordings. 

I think we have another "discount mic of the month" on our hands here.  Its happened with c4's, pelusos and oktava's before that.  They are all a good value,but none if them are light years better than each other and none are going to replace akg or scheops.  There is no doubt that these chinese mics will depreciate like a used car over time. You will see the real mics hold their value.  This is a better indication of performance and value than any comment on taperssection.

I've had a pair of C4s and used the Berliners as well. I don't think the C4s hold a candle to the Berliners. The Berliners have a high frequency bump that makes them sound great when used for distant PA recording. The C4s cardioids have a sloppy low end and muddled highs in comparison.

They are also less than half the price on the used market.

You don't think people would be able to tell the difference between a pair of C4s, Berliners and Karma K10s? Well, you're wrong...at least as far as I'm concerned.
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Offline Javier Cinakowski

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #63 on: January 25, 2011, 11:46:55 AM »
Quote
You don't think people would be able to tell the difference between a pair of C4s, Berliners and Karma K10s? Well, you're wrong...at least as far as I'm concerned.

We will have to agree to disagree!   :)

The root of my point was that "light years apart" isn't a good descriptor of the differences between the aformentioned mics. 
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2011, 02:34:31 PM »
Quote
You don't think people would be able to tell the difference between a pair of C4s, Berliners and Karma K10s? Well, you're wrong...at least as far as I'm concerned.

We will have to agree to disagree!   :)

The root of my point was that "light years apart" isn't a good descriptor of the differences between the aformentioned mics.
I just looked for information about these mics.  They are *very* similar to the Neumann KM184 in both appearance and in specifications.  Apparently they are made by 797 Audio in China, the same people who make Studio Projects and several other mics.

I do find it rather sleazy that they use the name Berliner, and also Neumann knockoff names, like U77 or whatever, while they are really USA designed China manufactured mics.  Oh, in case anyone complains about Behringer, well, that is a real person (from Germany).

These may be better than Studio Projects.  I like the smaller "form factor" too.  But for $550 or something a matched pair, I would rather pay the $800 and get Beyerdynamic, or pay less ($400?) and get a Studio Projects pair.  Just seems like a lot of money for an unknown/unproven mic.

Oh yeah, I was just reading the spec (http://mixonline.com/ms/aes2007/microphone-products/):
BERLINER CM33 STEREO MATCHED PAIR: The CM33 is an electret condenser   pressure gradient transducer with a cardioid  polar pattern. It features   a 16mm diameter 3-micron, gold-plated Mylar diaphragm. Electronics are   discrete FET with transformerless balanced output. Each package includes   two factory matched CM33s, mic clips, and windscreens in a wood   presentation case.   

Electret?  Can anyone confirm this?  Nothing wrong with Electret, but this would make it different than the usual 797 element.  The cool thing is that it could also be used as an *active capsule* as well.  Coolest of all would be if you could buy replacement capsules for the CM33 and run with your own FET/battery box.  Now *that* would be interesting...  If they really do sound great.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Offline flipp

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2011, 03:51:45 PM »
Speaking of multiple capsules, their "Technical Brochure"  http://www.berlineraudio.com/pdf/berliner_cm33.pdf  lists omnis as an available accessory. I first noticed the omni mentioned a couple of years ago and sent an email to their contact address inquiring about a set. After a week and not getting a response I called. I don't recall who I talked to but it wasn't David Cohen and the gentleman on the phone recognized my name, apologized for not getting back with me and said they hadn't decided whether to offer the omni for sale seperately yet. He also asked how long I had had had my pair. Due to their age he said the omnis probably would not work with my bodies as there had been some internal changes fairly recently - one reason omnis were now an option. Whether this is true or just bs I don't know. Due to his reluctance to sell a set of omnis I didn't pursue the matter. Shortly thereafter I acquired some Beyers and they became my default mics. Now the Berliners get used in band rehearsals and don't get out anymore. Due to the revival of this thread and my finding a flac disc of WSP I recorded using the CM33s which listened to yesterday and being pleasantly surprised, I know I'll be taking these back out in the field again soon.

Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2011, 03:58:26 PM »
here's a pair for sale on ebay,with pictures, also advertised as new

No affl whatsoever

link
Mics:
AKG ck91 actives
AKG ck61 > Nbob collettes > PFA
Church CA 14 cards

Preamps:
Edirol UA-5 w/Oade PMod
Church 9100
Church 9100 (for use with the ck91 mics only)

Recorders:
Tascam DR680
Edirol R4 w/Oade Concert Mod
Edirol R09

gear for sale:

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2011, 06:33:31 PM »
If anyone has these, could you take a real close up picture of the front - both grille and if you can see into the capsule at all.

I'm suspicious.  They look a whole lot like the Behringer C2, really cheap electret mics.  Now, they are likely not that, but I could tell from a look at the "business end".

Of course, if anyone is brave enough to open them up, that would be interesting too...

Thanks,
  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2011, 06:46:59 PM »
I'll try to get some better (read in-focus) close-ups tomorrow. In the meantime, check 370 and 371 for some I posted years ago.
http://flipp.home.telepath.com/CM33/

Probably not gonna open them up anytime soon.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 06:49:04 PM by flipp »

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2011, 06:59:49 PM »
I'll try to get some better (read in-focus) close-ups tomorrow. In the meantime, check 370 and 371 for some I posted years ago.
http://flipp.home.telepath.com/CM33/

Probably not gonna open them up anytime soon.
Thanks for the quick response and photos.

OK, those look *exactly* like the Behringer C2.  Both front and back of capsule.  The only difference is the grille on the front.  The hole pattern in the capsule is the same.  Incredible!  Now, that said, therre could be a better capsule in these, but I'm really suspicious now.

I would certainly need to see more evidence of capsule quality before buying these.  The simplest test would be put these side-by-side (ie., taped together so both ends face exactly the same way) with a known mic (eg., Neumann KM184, AKG 461, etc).  Record something like ambient kitchen noises.  Then record a musical instrument of some kind, piano, or maybe a drum kit.  Give us a blind "taste test".

  Richard
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 07:01:35 PM by illconditioned »
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2011, 03:10:52 AM »
Okay...I don't mean to be argumentative (alright, yes I do) but.....listen to the sample I already posted of these mics.

Screw your kitchen noises test and listen to the results of using them with a good preamp and garden variety mini recorder to record a show. That's what most people on this board are using mics for. Live concert recording.

Just because they "look" like another mic doesn't mean shit. The Busman mics and Peluso mics (as well as the Charter Oaks and others) all look the same on the outside and inside and perform quite differently.

I'm not trying to be some kind of hero for Berliner I just think you are dissing these mics based on comparisons to "known" mics (which cost twice as much used (AKG460) or 3 times (KM184)) that don't exist.I've taken them out into the field and used them. They sound great...why do you have to be such a skeptic without any proof? If you want to be a naysayer do your own tests before speculating.

You can't tell what a mic sounds like from looking into the "business end" any more than I can tell how a car drives from looking at the front bumper.
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2011, 07:36:11 AM »
I've got no skin in this game whatsoever, but in terms of a valid comparison, fine, the Berliners are much less expensive than AKG 480s.  But they are not much less expensive than, say, Beyerdynamic MC930s, which are about $650 used.  I would also call Beyers a "known" mic as well; they've been in use by longtime members here for quite a while. 

I also agree that just because the outer shell is the same, that doesn't mean terribly much, especially with multiple brands of mic made in the same factory that are built to different specs.  The iPhone and most of its competitor smartphones are, I believe, largely manufactured by Foxconn in Shenzhen.  Obviously the finish and quality on the iPhone and the better Droid phones is not the same as crappier smartphones that are probably made at the same site.

Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2011, 03:05:06 PM »
Quote
Screw your kitchen noises test and listen to the results of using them with a good preamp and garden variety mini recorder to record a show. That's what most people on this board are using mics for. Live concert recording.

PA concert recoding is so full of reverberation, external distortion, noise and a slew of other variables that making a critical evaluation of a microphone in that environment is almost impossible.  A sports car can't show its true colors on a old dirt road. 

The kitchen noises, or jangling car keys is fairly common technique to spot check a microphone.  It is difficult to compare anything at a concert and it is one of the reasons why I got into this argument at all.  Almost all of the sub $1000 microphone pairs are going to perform in a almost indistinguishable fashion in such a concert setting... However you might be able to hear a difference with the mics if recording some kitchen/key noises, or at a chamber orchestra, for example.  Transients and subtle harmonic interactions aren't going to be the same at a concert.

Yes, we record concerts and the Berliner might make fine concert recordings, but that doesn't make it "light years" better than any of the the other budget mics that have come to town the last 10 years. 

797 audio is capable of making world class microphones, but I think it is healthy to be skeptical of that, and it is also healthy to think that they could be "that" good.  I see both sides of this argument but i guess I am just sick of fan boys of a particular microphone.  I've been there myself too many times and I realize that most of it was wishful thinking.

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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2011, 03:54:55 PM »
OK, I listened to that UM concert.  Sound is fine, but I can't tell much more that that.

Where I could tell is a live recording in a small room, where there is a mixture of PA and acoustic instruments.  A really good setup is something with a drumkit, that is not mic'd, electric guitar, etc.

If anyone has such a recording using the Berliner's, please let me know.  Even better would be a comparison alongside a known quantity, such as Studio Projects, ADK, or some higher end gear.  Either way, that is going to tell us how good the Berliners are.

Oh yeah, they are selling for roughly $350 a pair on Ebay, but I'm curious why these are so hard to find.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline hubbachild

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2011, 02:36:06 AM »
this thread has inspired me to get off my ass and have some fun last weekend. I own a set of Berliners CM33 along with Behringer C-2, C-4 and B-5. (I have a bad Ebay habit).
On Friday I did Popa Chubby at The Tralf and ran cm33's and Behringer c4's into stock R4.
Saturday was local jam band Aqueous at a small club with a showroom as big as your living room. I ran cm33 and b5's.
Sunday was at the Tralf again for Tea Leaf Green where I ran the cm33 and the c2's.
At all shows the mics were on the same stand, same position/angle, one set about 4" above the other. I was surprised at the results. I'd really like to put some samples up, but not sure how to do it. Do I just attach a flac file to a post? convert to mp3? upload to a different server and put a link? I'd like to do a blind taste test and reveal the sources after people listen.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give...

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #75 on: June 12, 2011, 11:52:37 AM »
I've been using the Berliner Mics since November and they have been amazing.  I got them for fairly cheap as well as they were running a special when I bought them (I paid around 400 for the pair I think, maybe less).  The one thing that stands out the most for these mics is that they are not bass heavy as opposed to other mics.  Here is a comparison of the berliner and busman mics on the same stand -
http://www.archive.org/details/UM2010-11-10 (berliner)
http://www.archive.org/details/um2010-11-10.bsc1-k41.flac16 (busman)


Here are some of the recordings i've made with them-
http://www.archive.org/details/AP2011-02-25
http://www.archive.org/details/CCD2010-12-10
http://www.archive.org/details/TM2011-03-18
http://www.archive.org/details/jpdt2011-04-18.cm33.flac16

Here are the Umphrey's sets i've recorded with them-
http://www.archive.org/details/UM2011-02-17
http://www.archive.org/details/UM2011-02-19
http://www.archive.org/details/UM2011-05-19

Each of those Umphrey's shows has multiple sources.  I think they hold up very well
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Berliner CM-33's > Naiant Littlebox > Sony PCM-M10

Offline flipp

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2011, 02:22:52 PM »
this thread sure reads strange since about a dozen posts have been deleted over the years

I've taken the CM33s out a few times in the past month (Little Feat, WSP), a little different sound from the Beyer803s but still very listenable (not quite as much low-end as the Beyers) and quite enjoyable - the LF show should be up in a few weeks, WSP probably not but you never know

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2011, 03:29:45 PM »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2011, 06:42:19 PM »
Do you think it's a good price?

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #79 on: July 17, 2011, 07:15:51 PM »
Do you think it's a good price?

Oh yes, for sure.  I paid $400 for mine and they were marked off already.  Hell of a price for those
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #80 on: July 19, 2011, 07:16:49 PM »
So you won't sell yours under that price ?  ::)

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #81 on: July 20, 2011, 12:28:45 AM »
So you won't sell yours under that price ?  ::)

what?  I bought mine over a year ago and they were $400 marked off.  That $279 is a steal for these mics in my opinion.  You can probably find them fairly cheap now cause they were in the process of working on new mics.
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Offline Duconlajoie

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #82 on: July 20, 2011, 07:09:43 AM »
Or a very good deal ;). It was a joke.

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #83 on: July 20, 2011, 02:29:45 PM »
While I have added other mics over the years, I still think these are great mics and I never hesitate to use them. I use them indoors mostly as they respond well in muddy conditions. They are a well kept secret as the company really never seems to have gotten off the ground.
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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2015, 04:42:48 PM »
In. Got a pair.  ;)
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
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Offline carlbeck

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2015, 04:48:01 PM »
Nice, I really liked mine but sold them to fund MBHO'S, I keep thinking I should grab another pair some day. Enjoy!
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

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ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2015, 04:51:29 PM »
Maiden voyage next week taping MMJ (coupled with my AKG Blueline cards).
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
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Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
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Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2015, 10:14:57 AM »
I love my CM33s. Got a great MMJ tape a few weeks ago
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline acidjack

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2015, 05:35:43 PM »
Nice mics. A touch on the brighter side, making them well suited to most kinds of taping.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline carlbeck

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2015, 05:40:29 PM »
Nice mics. A touch on the brighter side, making them well suited to most kinds of taping.

Exactly, I wasn't fond of them with my V2 but found them much better with the FP24. I bought them as a second set of beater mics to use with the FP but tried them with the V2 a couple of times for giggles. Great value & matched with the right preamp shoot well above their price range IMO.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline heesu

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2017, 03:08:34 PM »
Bumping an old topic, but I just picked up a set of these in the yard sale.

These will actually be my first full (?) bodied mics - any suggestions on mounts/bars?

Any other thoughts/tips with these mics is welcomed!

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2017, 05:27:32 PM »
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline acidjack

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Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2017, 08:24:44 AM »
They come with mounts. I've used this bar with them: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/534727-REG/K_M_23550_500_55_23550_Adjustable_Microphone_Bar.html

The mic bodies are short enough that you don't need to offset them in height for most stereo configurations.

I have been exclusively pointing at stacks (PAS) with roughly 17-20cm spread for the last few years. I will say that shapeways mount is pretty sexy, though.

I'm currently using this mount with my akg391s (same diameter) and I love it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894262-REG/rycote_041125_in_vision_stereo_pair.html
AKG SE300B CK91
CA-14 omnis
CA 9200
Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-70D, Tascam DR-22WL
↑↑↓↓←→←→ BA Start
         


My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2017, 08:27:09 AM »
http://www.rode.com/accessories/sb20
this is my favorite bar.  has measurements and angles setup for ORTF and XY/DIN
LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

Online jcable77

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2017, 05:26:00 PM »
Have Scott make you a DIN mount! 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/Z5PW7SVQZ/din-berliner-cm33?optionId=56698034
Winner  :clapping:
This is the best idea for these. The stock mounts for them, the threading was a bit chinsey I thought. I still use the shapeways din for other mics.
Mics- AT 4041's, akg 460's ck 61's/63's/ck8's, akg active  couplings>naiant pfa's, naiant x-r's (cards,omnis). Pre- SD-302, naiant x-y amp, apogee mini-me X2, Lunatech V-3, Decks- R-44, dr-40,dr-100mkiii,  dr-03.....
ISO- pair of ADK a51 tl's

Offline dynamicalories

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2017, 01:41:29 PM »
Just FYI: If you get the shapeways mounts, you might ask him if he can elongate the stem so you can use it with the Rycote INV-HG III mount.

Offline heesu

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #97 on: July 18, 2017, 07:29:45 PM »
http://www.rode.com/accessories/sb20
this is my favorite bar.  has measurements and angles setup for ORTF and XY/DIN

All good ideas - thanks for the feedback. I went with this one mainly for ease of use...got it today, and it seems like what I was looking for.

How are the included windscreens with these? If I'm going to be taping outside will these do well enough, or should I invest in some dead rats for these (or maybe my CA14 rats might even fit?)

Should be able to give these a go this sunday for Tedeschi Trucks...and run a second source on my new (to me) R26!

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #98 on: August 07, 2017, 09:06:35 AM »
Definitely get rats.
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

Offline heesu

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #99 on: August 07, 2017, 09:48:45 AM »
Definitely get rats.

Yeah, found that out the hard way @ TT...those windscreens didn't do a whole lot. Doubt I will use these a ton outdoors though...

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Berliner CM-33 mics?
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2017, 10:50:26 AM »
Definitely get rats.

Yeah, found that out the hard way @ TT...those windscreens didn't do a whole lot. Doubt I will use these a ton outdoors though...

I did too with my CM33s... I even use the rats inside sometimes.
Mics: Berliner CM-33, CA-14 card, CA-11 card & omni, AT-853, Sony ECM-907
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-05, Sony Hi-MD

 

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