Topic: Is starquad any better in unbalanced Interconnect (RCA/3.5mm mini)

[bluelight]

I am building some mic and interconnect cables and I wonder if it is better to use starquad cables for unbalanced interconnect?

My difficulty is to buy small quantity of Belden 1804A as I need to fit two RCA's into a TAF3 and even Canare L45E will be too large to fit into a mini-xlr.

BTW, if there are anyone who is willing to split some 1804A for a cannuck, please let me know.

Thanks,

Ed

[(((KB)))]

I am building some mic and interconnect cables and I wonder if it is better to use starquad cables for unbalanced interconnect?

My difficulty is to buy small quantity of Belden 1804A as I need to fit two RCA's into a TAF3 and even Canare L45E will be too large to fit into a mini-xlr.

BTW, if there are anyone who is willing to split some 1804A for a cannuck, please let me know.

Thanks,

Ed

I recently switched from Belden to Canare mic cables... seems that the canare runs slighty a bit "hotter" and it seems to have a little more clarity in the signal. If you had an inexpensive play-back system though, you probably wouldn't hear any difference.

If you really want Canare L-4E5C Miniature Star-Quad (0.189in O.D.)
you can buy it by the foot @ Markertek Not sure if there's a minumum, but it's .40/ft. You should be able to fabricate the cables with that size dia.
http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=L%2D4E5C+BK&cat=CABLESCONN&subcat=BULKCABLE&prodClass=AUDIOBULK&mfg=Canare+Corporation+of+America&search=0&off=

I've seen something similar to what you're trying to do on www.soundprofessionals.com's site ...
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-P3M-MINI-2

This example, I believe is a mini 1/8" trs -> 2 mini xlr's using belden or canare mini xlr cable, so what you want is doable. $40 is a bit pricey just to buy their 2ft cable and switch the jacks. I don't know if they have the exact cable you're looking to make, but you could ask them.

Ed from www.kindkables.com might have what you're looking for also, so you could check w/ them too.

-K

[guysonic]

I am building some mic and interconnect cables and I wonder if it is better to use starquad cables for unbalanced interconnect?

My difficulty is to buy small quantity of Belden 1804A as I need to fit two RCA's into a TAF3 and even Canare L45E will be too large to fit into a mini-xlr.

BTW, if there are anyone who is willing to split some 1804A for a cannuck, please let me know.

Thanks,

Ed

Have solely used a custom made small .090' dia star-quad in the DSM mics made here for 20 years, and for some of the adapter patch cables.  This cable works for both balanced/unbalanced terminations with excellent noise immunity in both configurations. 

It is good to realize this cable has 4 signal conductors close together so has much HIGHER distributed (coupling) capacitance as compared with coaxial and most single signal conductor cords. 

While some prefer to use as low a capacity cable as possible for maybe getting more high frequency bandwidth, I seem to think the dampening effect of distributed capacitance in audio cable is very useful for reducing reactive signal reflections (echos). 

These reflections are a kind of signal noise artifact common with unterminated audio/video/rf cables.  Having more distributed cable capacitance works for improving the audio clarity regardless of a cable being properly terminated and because of this, I prefer using the star-quad configuration for this reason.

Since most mics and (sollid state) preamps have low output impedance (good 200-1000 ohm load driving ability), the additional loading of star-quad is not an issue in reducing high frequency audio bandwidth so I see little reason to avoid using this type cable when practical to do so.

[bluelight]

Thanks KB and guysonic for the informative response.

In case using starquad for unbalanced/unbalanced and balanced/unbalanced connection, should I simply connect the shield with one of the twisted pair as ground?

Ed

[Church-Audio]

Thanks KB and guysonic for the informative response.

In case using starquad for unbalanced/unbalanced and balanced/unbalanced connection, should I simply connect the shield with one of the twisted pair as ground?

Ed

IMO you use unbalanced cable for unbalanced connections and you use balanced cable for balanced connections. I never use mic cable for unbalanced connections unless I have no choice. Remember although G.S. is correct in saying that in the range of 200 to 1000 ohm where Balanced cable is designed to work loss of high end will not be an issue but.... if you have a unbalanced connection, chances are its not 200 ohm to 1k its more like 10k to 20k. Its for this reason not knowing exactly where a cable could end up or does end up in the chain, that you always use the correct cable for the correct job.

There is a reason for unbalanced cable. IMO USE IT:) check out BTX.COM they sell unbalanced MOGAMI at good prices. In a pinch starquad can be used but, I would say that all the benefits of starquad is lost on a unbalanced connection, and its a waste of good money to buy a more expensive cable when your application calls for cheaper unbalanced cable. The only thing you have to watch out for with unbalanced cable is microphonics. A good unbalanced cable will not make any noise when it is moved or hit. I use mogami for my guitar patch cables and it is a much better cable then any other I have ever used for unbalanced audio the Mogami number is 2524.

Chris Church

[guysonic]

Thanks KB and guysonic for the informative response.

In case using starquad for unbalanced/unbalanced and balanced/unbalanced connection, should I simply connect the shield with one of the twisted pair as ground?

Ed

IMO you use unbalanced cable for unbalanced connections and you use balanced cable for balanced connections. I never use mic cable for unbalanced connections unless I have no choice. Remember although G.S. is correct in saying that in the range of 200 to 1000 ohm where Balanced cable is designed to work loss of high end will not be an issue but.... if you have a unbalanced connection, chances are its not 200 ohm to 1k its more like 10k to 20k. Its for this reason not knowing exactly where a cable could end up or does end up in the chain, that you always use the correct cable for the correct job.

There is a reason for unbalanced cable. IMO USE IT:) check out BTX.COM they sell unbalanced MOGAMI at good prices. In a pinch starquad can be used but, I would say that all the benefits of starquad is lost on a unbalanced connection, and its a waste of good money to buy a more expensive cable when your application calls for cheaper unbalanced cable. The only thing you have to watch out for with unbalanced cable is microphonics. A good unbalanced cable will not make any noise when it is moved or hit. I use mogami for my guitar patch cables and it is a much better cable then any other I have ever used for unbalanced audio the Mogami number is 2524.

Chris Church

Unbalanced Star quad shield is best connected to two of the 4 signal wires as common AT THE OUTPUT PLUG going into the mic pre.

[(((KB)))]

Found this rane wiring diagrams on the web and posted on here a while ago... great reference for unbalanced to balanced wiring etc.... check it out... "Interconnect_wiring.pdf (192.34 KB)"

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=12577.msg877993#msg877993

-K

[bluelight]

Thanks for a great reference