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Author Topic: Oddball microphone techniques  (Read 57540 times)

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Offline djs

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2008, 04:28:23 AM »
clever work in this thread... inspiring.  thanks for sharing, i had fun reading about and viewing your crafty rigs.

Offline palmettobum

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2008, 07:34:58 AM »
ok, that has got to be one of the best homebrew devices I have ever seen on this site.  major props on that.    what a perfect festival rig.  I'll see you at springfest (i'll be carrying about 5x as much gear).  -pb
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2008, 07:53:10 AM »
I had a celebrity sign my balls once.
ONCE !

(joe piscopo humor)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 07:54:47 AM by Nick's Picks »
LMA recordings and what-not


Live music: hauling around a Marshall stack whose output will get squeezed through a single SM57, then mangled by a Guinness-soaked mixer and shoved through suspicious-smelling power amps into a pair of grungy cabinets whose best days were before they left the factory, all of which are under the control of an engineer who would much rather be at home watching television.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2008, 01:16:43 PM »
^^^^^
I knew I was asking for that one.. I was just waiting for it. ;)

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.  Those ideas germinated from this board.  Love this place, positive T's for all.
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Offline silentmark

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2008, 08:05:53 AM »
Wow, awesome work, +T
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. - Howard Zinn, not Thomas Jefferson ...

Mics: Neumann AK50/AK40/AK30/AK20(1 for M/S), AKG568eb's (gathering dust)
Decks: R-44 (OCM), Fostex FR2LE (OWM), Microtacker (semi-retired), D8 (retired), D7 (retired)
Pre-amps: Apogee Minime (semi-retired), Sonosax SX-M2 (semi-retired), Oade mod SBM-1 (retired)
Cables: LC3 actives (older lemo style x2), Audio Magic Hyper Conductor interconnects

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3qrWOOposQ

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2008, 09:09:23 AM »
jbanyai97 posted some photos from Langerado over in rig pics, a couple caught my rig up front-

Bad Plus (if it wasn't so windy I could have eliminated those big windcreens and been near invisible)


Medeski Scofield Martin Wood (barely discernable, stand is just to the left of the acoustic bass, left mic infornt of Chris Woods right elbow, right obscured by fan's arm in foreground)
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Offline rowjimmy

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2008, 10:27:46 AM »
Hey, GB, I've been following this thread a while.. great stuff. Have you posted any torrents of your langerado recordings?
(apologies if you've mentioned it somewhere)

thanks.
@rowj
Superlux SMK-H8K/H/U > KindKables Black Stealths > Busman T-Mod FR2LE

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2008, 10:56:31 AM »
I haven't yet.  The recordings I've been making with this are quite encouraging but need eq work (bloated festival subs + omnis bring the bass boom home).  I've been primarily focusing on the capture side since I've gotten back into recording again - most of my catalog untracked at this point.  I need to get into the post side enough to do some limited (but necessary) eq work, SRC, dither to 16bit and tracking, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and just can't get myself to do it half-assed.  I need to sit down and dedicate some time to doing it right and just haven't had the time to do that. But then I figure I better capture it now! editing and tracking can wait a bit.

I do have great admiration for the guys uploading shows withing a few days.  I'll let you know when I finally get that side together.

I finally did some limited 'walk around the rig with a shaker calling out the numbers of the clock' testing of various mic spacings with and without the baffle balls to check the effect on both the directionality that the balls impart and the effect of various omni spacings and angles on the playback image.  The balls do change the response relatively dramatically.  I need to do some more of that testing and include variations with a jecklin disk too.  I'll post short clips and details of those tests here when I get a chance.  Likely next month after Spingfest.
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolvution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2008, 07:55:41 PM »
jbanyai97 posted some photos from Langerado over in rig pics, a couple caught my rig up front-

Bad Plus (if it wasn't so windy I could have eliminated those big windcreens and been near invisible)



Hey, love that pic!  Looks like an alien landed.  You give a whole new meaning to FOB...

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2008, 09:12:53 AM »
Oh, they're streaming in the stiff breeze, dangling down and caressing the heads of the pious spagnostics up front.  The FSM in it's benevolence has adopted the methods of the Invisible Pink Unicorn and made the majority of it's body transparent to both critical sound frequencies and the electromagnetic spectrum that humans require to enjoy both a sonic & visual stage performance.  FSM respects sight lines.

[edit - perhaps I should rename the thread: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to intelligent design of 'Bug Eye' rig.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 03:36:39 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2008, 11:50:05 PM »
Hey Moke, can you explain how you made the Jecklin disk?

I'm thinking of using a Jecklin disk with cardioids.  Why?  Well, suppose I'm in a long room, about halfway back (where a light fixture is hanging :)).
Now if I do ORTF or DIN or whatever, mics get all kinds of reflections from the walls.  I figure if I point mics forward, with a Jecklin baffle, I'll get more music and less walls.  Does this make sense?  Maybe this is obvious, but I just don't like ORTF or DIN recordings in long narrow rooms.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2008, 10:24:24 AM »
Rearwardly baffled spaced-omnis...
The chair-back baffles cut the applause by 12dB(?), naturally...
This is exactly the opposite of what usually occurs.

Nice visual confirmation in those screen shots.  So how does the applause and quality of the room ambience sound to you?  Does the room ambience 'close up' somewhat with the baffles?  Is the applause just lower in level or does the tone of the applause change?

This is positive confirmation of what i've heard by changing the placement of the 4060's on a torso shaped baffle ;) with the array in a similar position relative to the audience and performers.   In my experience in a good sounding but relatively reverberant room, placement of the mics on the sides of the 'baffle' similar to a Jecklin disk (well, it would be a 20" thick, small diameter Jecklin disk) provides the best ambient capture of the sound of the room.  Moving the mics to the front of the baffle cuts applause and other AUD noise significantly and also increases the upper midrange clarity slightly for the on-stage sources (both positives), while loosing some of the ambient capture of the room and changing the 'tone' of applause and sounds to the rear by reducing the mids & highs a bit more than the bass.  That placement also reduces the stereo separation as the mics are less separated and there is little baffling between them.  That can be an useful trade-off to make depending on the scenario.

If I can offer a suggestion, one thing you might want to try if you use this technique again is angling the chairs slightly in a shallow 'V' shape to provide a slight bit of baffling between the mics as well (if you'd like to capture some Jecklin sound staging qualities vs. spaced A-B) while still baffling the audience.  I'd suspect adjusting the amount of 'V' would correspond to my observations above.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2008, 10:59:09 AM »
Innovation born of necessity.. fertile soil.

You could also run the J-disk lower on the stand and flank with the chairs in an inverted V to block the diagnosticians and origamists.

W baffle.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2008, 07:24:19 PM »
Got home and gave a listen. Interesting to hear, thanks.  The Gefell sample has the applause attenuated in post, correct?  The applause in that sample doesn't sound obnoxiously loud at the end of the piece, though obviously louder than the rear baffled 4060 sample.

The chair baffles certainly cut the rearward sound significantly, which is the idea of course.  Similar to my own experiences with such rearward baffling, personally I find the tonal change for those reduced sounds less desirable. I even notice the same 'dulling of rear sound' effect to a lesser extent in my limited experiments with the 1.5" diameter nerf foam balls APEing the DPA spheres.  The balls do give the 4060's more directionality and a bit of midrange focus that can be useful, but as for their reduced rearward sensitivity, I find I'd almost rather have well recorded, exceptionally clear ambient noise than muffled sounding rear noise.

A thought that has crossed my mind in the past is that 'applause', though not the usual focus of our interest, seems difficult to record really well.  By that I mean really natural, realistic sounding applause.  Maybe it's just that we don't really set-up to capture applause accurately or that the level of applause often does not match especially well with that of the music from the mics perspective and recorder gain settings.  Or maybe its the distribution of clappers near the mics and the highly dynamic, frequency rich transient nature of the sound. :shrug:
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball mic techiques that worked - evolution to 'Bug Eye' rig
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2008, 10:15:47 PM »
Totally agreed on the omni bass aspect, the bassoons really grabbed me in the omni sample too.  The Geff's are generally brighter, but even with the more extended bass I don't find the 4060 sample too dull sounding for the sounds on-stage, only for the rearward baffled sounds. I like that Geffel midrange clarity bump, which works fine here but really shines and focuses the sound from farther back to my ear.  That midrange presence is the region that I sometimes find could use some help in my 4060 recordings and the primary reason for experimenting with the APE-like ball baffles.
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