Topic: $1,500+ to Burn... Need EXPERIENCED Recommendations... (COMPLETE!!!)

[BayTaynt3d]

I'm a long-time digital video enthusiast whose been paying more and more attention to audio lately. 

Now, I think I'm ready to start taking the plunge into getting some decent audio gear. I'd like to be able to record musical performances with high quality under both "out in the open" and stealth conditions. Right now, all I've got is a Rode VideoMic and a Squid mono omni lav that I use with my GS400 MiniDV cam for run-n-gun guerilla action. However, now I want to upgrade and get some new gear I can use for stand alone audio projects, but maybe also use in combination with my video cam at times too. The idea would be to own some hardware I can use to tape high quality audio on its own, but sometimes jack it right into my cam too. Instead of half-assing my first purchases, I'm willing to try to get it (mostly) right on the first go around (it'll just end up being a waste of money if I don't). My budget is somewhere around $1,500, maybe I'd be willing to go a few hundred more if I have to. I know this may not be enough to "getting it right" with everything I'd like to own, but let's see how close I can get...

Right now, I'm thinking about getting the new M-Audio MicroTrack when it comes out and if the first reviews are positive. That unit seems to have the  potential to be a very flexible and powerful piece of equipment (but still vaporware until the reviews come in). I'm also probably going to have to purchase some sort of XLR adapter/mixer/phantom/preamp (Beachtek, Sign, etc.) for my MiniDV cam because it only has one mini stereo input. The specific adapter will be somewhat dependant on what other gear I buy. Either way, these two purchases will let me record 16-bit 48k WAV (that'll most likely be my normal format of choice) on flash or to MiniDV (or both simulataneously).

So, you figure I'm already down $400 on the M-Audio and $200+ on an XLR adapter for my camcorder. That leaves only $900 bucks left. My next need would be to buy a couple of decent mics with a mic stand I can rig for stereo recording into either device. How much can I get a couple of good mics for? Not necessarily pro, but I'd like some decent mics. Might I still need a preamp/phantom/mixer piece of hardware too even with the M-Audio? On the stealthing front, stealthing is NOT my main focus, so I'm willing to chince a little on that front, maybe I'd just buy another mono squid (to pair with the one I've already got) or something like that to keep the stealthing costs down? Or maybe I'd upgrade to a SP stealth mic with Bat box because that's the minimum standard that'll sound good?

So considering my needs, and my budget, if you guys (and gals) were to start over, start from scratch buying your taping gear, and you wanted to be able to have a solid "out in open" setup, be able to jack into my MiniDV cam at times, and be able to go stealthing for fun from time to time, what type of setup might you recommend? Am I on track with the M-Audio MicroTrack? What two mics would be good but still be afforadable (specific recommendations please)? Cardiods I assume are best? What specific 7' stand might you recommend (brand/models please)? Do you think I'll still need a seperate pre-amp with the m-audio? What lower-budget stealth mics should I get for use with the m-audio?

I'm thinking my final setup might look something like this:
2 solid mono cardiod mics (XLR, phantom?)
A good mic stand that can be rigged for stereo (2 mics)
M-Audio MicroTrack digital recorder
Beachtek DXA-4/6/8 or SignVideo XLR Adapter
Low-end stealth mic (PS or Squid?)
Maybe another preamp/mixer/phantom box? Maybe not needed?
Bunch of cabling

I probably can't do all of that for under $1,500, but I'm really looking for some feedback on the direction I've laid out by people who have real hands-on experience, and this forum seemed like a great place to start. Am I on the right track here? I've read a bunch of threads here already, but I thought this exercise might be fun even for the folks who already own gear because I'm asking if you had to do it all over again, what SPECIFIC equipment by brand and model might you buy or put on your wish list?

I promise to keep everyone informed on my progress and to respond to this thread if you are kind enough to post. Thanks tons in advance...

[BC]

considering the $900 price limit for mics, I would consider:

Shure KSM 137/141
AT 4051
AKG C391/C451/460
MBHO 603 (a little above the $900 range but might be able to find a good deal used)
DPA 4060 (mini omni mics)

Just the tip of the iceberg here, tons of nice mics out there at this price range...

Take care,
Ben

[Ray76]

I HIGHLY reccomend the audio technica 4050. You can grab a pair of them on ebay for 800 in mint condition.

Large Diagram Multiple Pattern Mic. I know you mentioned just cardiod, but these are very versatile, and have produced amazing results for me. Very transparent, solid microphones. I can provide you with samples if youd like. Read that a lot of engineers use them. 
or you could get Studio Projects C4s(sd mic..worth more than the 300 dollar price tag IMHO come with card and omni caps)
and a set of DPA 4060s or 4061s.


Teddy

[bgalizio]

Don't forget to factor in the price of large Compact Flash media for the MicroTrack (assuming you don't have any).

[mmmatt]

an xlr daptor is the same as a preamp.  For whatever reason they use a different name in the video world.  I don't know any who have tested the beachtek pre's yet.  I've looked over the specs and they seemed like they weren't much of a pre.  They screw to the bottom of your cam, but that is no big deal if you are carrying everything else anyways.  I would go with a better pre.  Just make sure whatever pre you buy has an analog out for your camera.  Most do, so no worries.  The micro-tracker is rather unproven as you know but most are assuming that the adc will be pretty poor, so you will want a pre that has BOTH digital out and analog out if at all possible.  To most people here this smells like a UA-5!  That is probably the most widely used pre around here.  They are durable, easy to use, easy to power, and they sound pretty good.  There is lots of info around here on thoes, but just be aware that they need to be modified to work as a stand alone pre.  Many here have done it, and plenty of info here on that as well.  There are also many modified units in circulation.
     If you use the microtracker you will need memory... lots if you are doing 24/96.  1hr @ 24/96 stereo is about 2GB, so 2@ 4GB makes sence if you are recording a single show.  In 16/44.1 you can do about 2hrs per GB (I think).  A 4GB CF card is around $2-250 I think.
     As for mics, I currently run mbho's, Studio Projects c-4's (sd mics with both omni and card caps), and Studio Projects c-1's (card LD mics).  They are all great mics to my ears.  The c-4's are a great place to start and can be had as low as $250 new. The newer c-4s also come with shock mounts and a stereo bar.

new microtracker             400
new CF cards                   500
new c-4's                        300
used digimod ua-5            200
batts                              60
xlr cables                         50
patch cables                    30
stand                             50
bag                               20


that is just over $1600 and is a nice rig for open recording.  Stealth mics are something I know nothing about so you can do a little more research there.  If you don't care too much about 24 bit, you can use a jb3 instead of the microtracker and have 20GB of built-in storage for about $150, but probably not as good for stealth recording.  with that scenario you will save $750 from what I have above and can go with a better pre or mics.

Matt

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Used pairs of KM184s for $900 occasionally come available.

[jhirte]

Find some 460's for cheap, and pick up that Aerco in the yard sale

[Ray76]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

[Ray76]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=48570.new#new

[OFOTD]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

Teddy you are the man!  I never read the Yard Sale anymore I just follow your posts.  Need to refer to you as Mr. Yard Sale from now on.  +T


Tainted, 

If I can make a suggestion.  Try looking for a pair of AKG 390's with some actives.  These would satisfy your need for great mics with the ability to run on a stand or to stealth with.  In addition there have been several UA5's in the "BigRay" Yard Sale at really good prices.   Stands always come up for sale used and I know alot of folks have found great deals for stands on ebay as well.    As far as the MicroTracker is concerned, always wait until you have to, to buy CF media.  Prices are always dropping and capacity is always increasing.  Seems like most folks either like MicroDrives or they dislike them.  I have never had a problem with one and I have a couple of them.  They are quite a bit cheaper than CF cards and will work with the MicroTracker.

Good luck to ya +T

[dgodwin]

Sanjay may be still selling his akg 391/393 and active cable setup.  look here  I don't know what he's sold so far, so you'll probably want to pm him. 

[Ray76]

there is a Wmod ua5 AND c4s and stand AND stereo bar for 750 bucks in the yard sale..

Teddy you are the man!  I never read the Yard Sale anymore I just follow your posts.  Need to refer to you as Mr. Yard Sale from now on.  +T


Tainted, 

If I can make a suggestion.  Try looking for a pair of AKG 390's with some actives.  These would satisfy your need for great mics with the ability to run on a stand or to stealth with.  In addition there have been several UA5's in the "BigRay" Yard Sale at really good prices.   Stands always come up for sale used and I know alot of folks have found great deals for stands on ebay as well.    As far as the MicroTracker is concerned, always wait until you have to, to buy CF media.  Prices are always dropping and capacity is always increasing.  Seems like most folks either like MicroDrives or they dislike them.  I have never had a problem with one and I have a couple of them.  They are quite a bit cheaper than CF cards and will work with the MicroTracker.

Good luck to ya +T

its taper eat taper. gotta be quick on the draw round here. 

[Nick's Picks]

i'm going to buck the system a little..

drop your plans for the Maudio recorder...for now.
pick up a Creative Labs nomad jukebox III.  lots of them around ...
maybe $200? 
lots of 16bit recording time available on one of those w/its 20gb disc.  no dicking around with flash for now..and you probably dont care about 24bit audio...so the Maudio is more than you need, imo.

some sort of UA5.  make that a definate on your list.  digimod at the least...w or t mod would rock. (there are various flavors of modified UA5s avaialbe...a warm and a transparent).
somewhere between 2 and 5 hundred depending on what you find.

then the best mics you can afford.  Shit, even an AT stereo mic will make nice recordings.  a big fat Studio Projects LSD2 stereo mic wouldnt suck either.  In fact, it would kick ass...and they run about $800 new.

[Unitmonster]

drop your plans for the Maudio recorder...for now.
pick up a Creative Labs nomad jukebox III.  lots of them around ...
maybe $200? 
lots of 16bit recording time available on one of those w/its 20gb disc.  no dicking around with flash for now..and you probably dont care about 24bit audio...so the Maudio is more than you need, imo.

Agreed. The 400-600 bucks you save by going with a jb3 would yield much better results when invested in mic/pair of mics.

spend 200 on a jb3, 200 on a digimod UA-5, 50 on a decent battery system for the rig and then dump the rest on the best used mics you can find with remaining funds.

[OFOTD]

drop your plans for the Maudio recorder...for now.
pick up a Creative Labs nomad jukebox III.  lots of them around ...
maybe $200? 
lots of 16bit recording time available on one of those w/its 20gb disc.  no dicking around with flash for now..and you probably dont care about 24bit audio...so the Maudio is more than you need, imo.

Agreed. The 400-600 bucks you save by going with a jb3 would yield much better results when invested in mic/pair of mics.

spend 200 on a jb3, 200 on a digimod UA-5, 50 on a decent battery system for the rig and then dump the rest on the best used mics you can find with remaining funds.

Let's take a step back for a second and look at what his needs are.  First I think that if the MAudio pans out like we are all hoping or at least pans out fairly decent then Tainted may be just the perfect fit for the MicroTracker.  It will adapt to damn near any situation or application that Tainted has already stated in his first post.  It will give him the ability to first and foremost audio tape in addition to his camera.  Secondly it fits his quote of "... high quality under both "out in the open" and stealth conditions" and third it leaves room for expansion. 

While I know that the JB3 is very important and used by many a taper here, is it really the best fit in this case?  Alot of us on ts.com look at the MicroTracker and focus only on the 24bit aspect of its features and forget about the other features that are perfect for a new or budget-minded taper.

What is the current price on some 4061"s?  His statement "The idea would be to own some hardware I can use to tape high quality audio on its own, but sometimes jack it right into my cam too" leads me to believe that some 4061's may fit the bill depending on price.  What about an active system of some manufacturer?   

Remember that he is currently using a camera mounted mic and a Squid lavalier mic.