Author Topic: DIY Chopper RA XLR's help.. (Read 12504 times)

Jimna · « **on:** March 15, 2008, 09:10:43 PM »

ive done all the chopping and am ready to solder them up. before i get started i need epoxy to fill them, can anyone point me in the right direction of where to find some? also how much will i need if im planning to do 10 connectors?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #1 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:13:34 PM »

in place of epoxy (which any hardware store has. just get the clear stuff) use "gas tank repair" putty. sometimes sold as water seal.
Its an epoxy based putty. it has two layers. when mixed up (by rolling in a ball like play dough) it becomes a ROCK and works really kick ass. Plus, you can mold it how you want, if needed.
It costs about the same as epoxy liquid as well.

again, any hardware store, automotive, walmart...etc

Liquid epoxy is a real PITA to work with. its messy as hell. Plus, it seeps into the female XLR and locks the little tab...rendering it useless.
that is where the putty really works best.
Because you can mold it, you can make sort of a rim and "cup" which you can then fill with liquid rubber. Also found in hardware stores to coat tools and stuff. DIP GRIP or something like that. Ask, they'll have it.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #2 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:27:14 PM »

I havnen't tried that stuff. the gas tank repair putty cures in minutes. I like that.
plus, take a heat gun to it and it turns back to mush. handy..in case you need to get back in there for whatever reason

Jimna · « **Reply #3 on:** March 15, 2008, 09:48:38 PM »

thanks fellas.

bluegrass_brad · « **Reply #4 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:00:15 PM »

I actually prefer the liquid epoxy. if you use tape as a mold so that it fills up the connector over the actual shaved top of the connector. Fill the connector with epoxy all the way up to the edge of the little dam. When it sets up you can easily use a file and shave them down so they look really nice after the epoxy sets up. I've done a few this way. Works great and is super durable.

Jimna · « **Reply #5 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:29:02 PM »

Quote from: bluegrass_brad on March 15, 2008, 10:00:15 PM

I actually prefer the liquid epoxy. if you use tape as a mold so that it fills up the connector over the actual shaved top of the connector. Fill the connector with epoxy all the way up to the edge of the little dam. When it sets up you can easily use a file and shave them down so they look really nice after the epoxy sets up. I've done a few this way. Works great and is super durable.

wow, nice work!! im am so stealing that idea. so what do you do to stop the epoxy from running into the female connector springs?

bluegrass_brad · « **Reply #6 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:35:01 PM »

I put on a small amount of silicone (with a Q-Tip)for a release so the epoxy wont stick to it. Then cover with a very small piece of electrical tape. Also let the epoxy set up a little before you put it into the connector so it's not as runny. I use toothpicks for this type of stuff. It's an easy way to stir the epoxy to mix and get the air bubbles out and also direct it around while pouring.

*edit to add* make sure you only put the silicone on the tiny area of the spring, not any where else or it can affect the epoxy adhesion,

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #7 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:41:51 PM »

using the XX series is *key* to a nice looking product, imo.
the regular cheap neutriks you have to cut the threads off. thats when things start to get messy.
w/the XX's, you dont. the thread are internal..which also helps hold the epoxy/jbweld/putty in place.

but then again..., mine are NOT PRETTY. unless I use those XX's. then they come out nice.

bluegrass_brad · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:51:30 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 15, 2008, 09:13:34 PM

then fill with liquid rubber. Also found in hardware stores to coat tools and stuff. DIP GRIP or something like that. Ask, they'll have it.

Plastisol. Good stuff. I made Todd French some cables and coated the epoxy with the spray on plastisol, after taping up the metal so it wouldnt get on it. It looked great.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2008, 10:51:49 PM »

yup. been there...done that.
qft !

Jimna · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2008, 12:09:29 AM »

im hitting the hardware store tomorrow, might have my own "Phatman Silver Shorty RA's" tomorrow night.

if this goes well im gonna retrofit all my previous cables also.

thanks again for all the help. once agian when i copy TS.comers home work i get good grades.

//rides the coat tails out of sight

esteyes · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2008, 06:15:24 AM »

as Nick said PITA using liquid epoxy... but using the moldable stuff it is hard to get it in and around the 3 pin insert and make me confident it all will stay in place, plus you can't fix'em. HATE that. so i did it my way. completely rebuildable/serviceable. time consuming at the moment tho'

sorry for the giant pix. haven't learned to format them for the list. and yes these are the "cheapie" neutriks

shorty RA x2 on the left, then insulator, then regular Neutrik in the middle, prepped cable on the right - you might just be able to see swelling from the strain relief ferrule under the red heatshrink so you can't pull the cable out of the body. strain relief is pretty visible in the last pic.

original link: http://members.cox.net/esteyes/000_0121.jpg

side view: thingie on the left goes down inside the Neutrik body and secures the 3 pin connection from any movement. held in place by two grub screws.

original link: http://members.cox.net/esteyes/000_0124.jpg

closer view:

original link: http://members.cox.net/esteyes/000_0123.jpg

ready to solder Male end:

original link: http://members.cox.net/esteyes/000_0122.jpg

hope this all makes sense
nism

edit by Moke:
I reduced the pic size so that the whole image fits in the thread without the scrolling blue-bubble dealie.
I left the original links in place for detail.
thanks for posting the originals, Neil.

shaggy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2008, 06:33:31 AM »

Awesome, simply awesome.

Sorry to be a pesk but are you gonna start making these for ts.com members?

esteyes · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2008, 07:12:12 AM »

Gutbucket · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2008, 01:38:26 PM »

Nice work. 'Like the removable mystery cap.

esteyes · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:06:12 PM »

FWIW the "removable mystery cap" is handmade at this time. likely to have them made in some quantity by my machinist soon.

neil

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #16 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:30:01 PM »

if you were to use the XX series XLRs, they are threaded *inside*. that could make for a very easy removable "cap" to be made.

Jimna · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2008, 09:48:20 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 16, 2008, 09:30:01 PM

if you were to use the XX series XLRs, they are threaded *inside*. that could make for a very easy removable "cap" to be made.

that would be ideal.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2008, 10:16:07 PM »

Quote from: Jimna on March 16, 2008, 09:48:20 PM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 16, 2008, 09:30:01 PM
if you were to use the XX series XLRs, they are threaded *inside*. that could make for a very easy removable "cap" to be made.
that would be ideal.

Except that the cable would then have to enter beneath the threads. With the set screw cap the cable can enter at the very back edge with just enough material around the hole to capture the strain relief ferrule.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2008, 10:34:13 PM »

I think you could go right through the threads and still have it work.

esteyes · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2008, 03:01:05 AM »

yes you could go thru the threads. but you would then have to drill each one individually, dress the threads, etc. plus i see serious difficulties in tightening the cap if the cable goes thru the thread on cap.... how would you actually tighten it? i mean the soldering has to be done before assembly, so i just don't see how to do it as a one piece threaded cap...

if you did it as a two piece arrangement it might be doable, but the threaded cap would only have a few threads so that the cable could exit near the top of the tube. the spacer below would have to be slotted to clear the cable exit, then you could cut your notch anywhere, solder, assemble the contact piece into the tube, insert your insulator, insert your spacer, then tighten the cap. but i think you might still have difficulty getting the spacer to not want to spin - that's why neutrik has a key on their strain relief. one of the key advantages to this shorty RA xlr connector is that the fabricator can aim the cable in any direction. if you manufacture a spacer with a key, it leads to more hand work, thus more time spent on assembly...

if you do the set screw cap, you are not exposing yourself to many of the above issues.

just my $0.02

neil

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2008, 06:59:43 AM »

making these sucks. no matter how you slice it.

Lets suppose you notch out a deep U in the chasis. and you also do that (although not as deep) on the threaded cap.
in theory, it would crimp the cable as you tightened it. but those threads are pretty fine...and likely after any modification they'd be near useless.

My initial voyage into these I was looking at modifying the plastic chuck as "my cap" w/the same idea. I tried grinding, melting the plastic...you name it. It just didn't work.

rowjimmy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2008, 08:52:42 AM »

Quote from: Moke on March 17, 2008, 07:48:34 AM

be careful of over engineering the simple.

Sage words.
That said, this is a great and informative thread for a future cable DIY guy... +Ts all around.

aegert · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2008, 09:48:20 AM »

Quote from: esteyes on March 16, 2008, 06:15:24 AM

as Nick said PITA using liquid epoxy... but using the moldable stuff it is hard to get it in and around the 3 pin insert and make me confident it all will stay in place, plus you can't fix'em. HATE that. so i did it my way. completely rebuildable/serviceable. time consuming at the moment tho'

OK +T I'm in... Now that is one sweet connector... Makes me wish I didn't dump my drill press! I would buy those connectors. If I had to I would buy the complete cables..

I need a pair of padded Female xlr to trs right angle cables .5M each

I would love to re build my mic 2 channel snake to incorporate these as well.. I would send it for rework if need be...

PM me...
A

Jimna · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2008, 09:54:59 AM »

finished one set last night. i need to be more cautious with the amount of epoxy im using but over all im very happy. i dont see any need to ever service these, im glad they are a finshed deal. now only 5 more sets to go...

btw, the tape around the top worked great as a form for the epoxy. +T to all that gave help and input. TS.com rocks!

it-goes-to-eleven · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2008, 10:23:47 AM »

Quote from: esteyes on March 17, 2008, 03:01:05 AM

yes you could go thru the threads. but you would then have to drill each one individually, dress the threads, etc. plus i see serious difficulties in tightening the cap if the cable goes thru the thread on cap.... how would you actually tighten it? i mean the soldering has to be done before assembly, so i just don't see how to do it as a one piece threaded cap...

The armchair designers will quiet down if you ask them to to post pics of their prototype

Sort of like making actives.. it is one thing to talk about it and quite another to spend hours and hours and hours planning and prototyping.

Nice work!

I think set screw based retention is the way to go. I'm curious what sort of collar you are using under the heat shrink on the cable to prevent pull out? That is one of the bigger long term challenges with the epoxy based designs - cable retention and strain relief on the conductors.

As far as tips for making the epoxy based designs... I use clear 15 or 30 minute hobby epoxy with a filler to thicken it. For me that gives the perfect balance of not too much flow and plenty of working time. I always make them with the opposite connector inserted to keep the pins aligned.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2008, 07:21:40 AM »

dremel tool !
no drill press needed. a vice is handy though.

I have *never* been able to pull out a cable that was just epoxy'd or putty'd in.

tfrench · « **Reply #27 on:** March 19, 2008, 01:33:09 PM »

Quote from: bluegrass_brad on March 15, 2008, 10:51:30 PM

I made Todd French some cables and coated the epoxy with the spray on plastisol, after taping up the metal so it wouldnt get on it. It looked great.

I 100% agree that they look and perform great! Love my shorty XLR's!

Todd

JackHenry · « **Reply #28 on:** April 16, 2008, 08:12:25 AM »

I've had a quick read through this post so I'm sorry if I missed someone else making this comment.

If you use clear epxoy, you can colour it with a small amount paint dye (Experiment on the quantity). So you can have different coloured plugs, which are usually very handy when trying to find the correct end.

ALSO, if you stick a little bit of 'blue tack' (Not sure if that's what you call it in the US) into any gaps that you don't want the epoxy to run through, it solves that problem.

Regards
John

esteyes · « **Reply #29 on:** April 16, 2008, 06:36:18 PM »

yeah, it is blue tack in the us and it is make for helping pottery, sculptures etc stay stuck to a shelf and not inadvertently fall off. non-marring and leaves no residue.

the strain relief is actually a lock washer trimmed then crimped around the cable. the "plug" is brass tubing silver soldered to a brass freeze plug then hand filed to the correct dimension to retain the neutrik pins then slotted for the cable exit.

now you have all my secrets!

neil

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #30 on:** April 17, 2008, 06:22:19 AM »

thought this might be of interest.
http://tinyurl.com/3r39sq

Its a neutrik part. normal style XLR housing only w/o threads. its threaded internally like the XX series, but its small and shaped like the NCX normal ones.
what it has is this little screw in "lid" that screws down on the pins and holds them in place (no chuck needed). It leaves a few threads of the lid exposed so you could actually screw something on to it.
way cool.
but, the problem I see is that you'd kill the threads if you drill these. I am currently working on trying to fabricate a cover that will screw on and have right angle adjustment.

you can see the brass threads poking out the rear there in this image.
male only, afaik.

esteyes · « **Reply #31 on:** April 17, 2008, 01:42:11 PM »

http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/204_2921/Modules_productlist.aspx

this page has all the oddball neutrik parts...

neil

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #32 on:** April 17, 2008, 06:11:22 PM »

awesome!
+T for that link

Jimna · « **Reply #33 on:** April 17, 2008, 08:24:38 PM »

Quote from: Moke on April 17, 2008, 06:19:47 PM

Quote from: Jimna on March 15, 2008, 09:10:43 PM
ive done all the chopping and am ready to solder them up. before i get started i need epoxy to fill them, can anyone point me in the right direction of where to find some? also how much will i need if im planning to do 10 connectors?

I don't know if I missed it, so I'll ask,....
How did your project turn out?

im very happy with the result except 2 female connector springs are solid. no good for locking but its not an issue very oftenso...otherwise they are solid. i retrofitted all my cables that i made(phatman silvers). not a fun project though, im glad im not doing these all the time, it would make ya nucking futs!. thanks for all the great advise and experiences shared. +T, and more in 12.

Jimna · « **Reply #34 on:** April 17, 2008, 08:47:54 PM »

here are some pics:

on the R4, notice the room these bad boys save vs. the RA' s from factory..

look at the difference between mine on the left and matts pro job on the Hi Ho's on the right..

on the busmans of course..

thanks to all who pitched in your 2 cents. if it werent for yinz these wouldnt exist.

Jimna · « **Reply #35 on:** April 17, 2008, 09:34:05 PM »

Quote from: Moke on April 17, 2008, 09:08:49 PM

is that a standard 5min type epoxy, or, a special electronic blend?

I gave up on the RA females after a few lock-ups. Its too disappointing after all the effort.
With the male stubbies in place, the oem ra females fit with room. So,...

i agree, 50% didnt turn out. i dont think ill go down that rd again. i say that now...

yep, standard 5 min epoxy made by loctite. the tape around the connector worked very well as a mold too, great idea there. after about 30 mins i peeled it off and trimmed it to look right with a knife. im leaving them clear too, i thought about the black permanent marker like you mentioned, but after seeing the finished product i like the clear better. you can see my solder job forever, like a museum or something.

how about the job matt does though, damn he is good. i really gave this my all hoping to use these for yrs to come, and they dont touch his. he's a pro.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #36 on:** April 18, 2008, 12:24:18 AM »

Love the hanging array. Those TL's are seriously jealous of the Busmans for the RA's though.

esteyes · « **Reply #37 on:** May 21, 2008, 07:26:53 PM »

hello all. i am getting ready to make (ok, have my machinist make) a bunch of the caps i used in the serviceable RA shorty XLR ends. if anyone has any interest or wants a quantity, please PM me.

should have a solid per piece price by Monday.

neil in san marcos