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Author Topic: Mic splitter iso out vs. soundbard insert jack--which is better quality?  (Read 2614 times)

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Offline jim1274

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I bought a 4 channel EWI MST-412 mic splitter to use with my portable rig to get a split on stage mics when needed.  Assuming I have to take the iso split from the MST-412 and give the direct to the house, is this still preferable (for sound quality) to taking a feed off the mixer board at the insert jack (which is post mic preamp gain control but pre EQ and faders).  Assuming the mixer preamps (EV PSX 2000 in this instance) are equivalent quality to my mic preamps (Edirol R-44), would I likely get better results with the insert feed than the transformer split? 

Second question--why am I having such a hard time finding  1/4" TS to TSR cables?  Plenty of send-return cables with a TSR split to two TS cables, but no 1/4" stereo TSR to mono TS cables.  I mean, I've looked all over the web and have not found any yet.  I can't be the only one who needs a cable with stereo phone plug tip and ring shorted and fed to a mono phone plug.  Any suggestions on a source for this cable---could not even find one on ebay.

Even if the consensus opinion is that I'd be better with the iso out on the mic splitter, I'd like to have this cable in the bag in case there is resistance by the artist to having my mic splitter in his signal chain.  Even an artist buddy was not too receptive and felt more comfortable with me grabbing his mic feeds at the insert jack.

Offline jim1274

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I bought a 4 channel EWI MST-412 mic splitter to use with my portable rig to get a split on stage mics when needed.  Assuming I have to take the iso split from the MST-412 and give the direct to the house, is this still preferable (for sound quality) to taking a feed off the mixer board at the insert jack (which is post mic preamp gain control but pre EQ and faders).  Assuming the mixer preamps (EV PSX 2000 in this instance) are equivalent quality to my mic preamps (Edirol R-44), would I likely get better results with the insert feed than the transformer split? 

Second question--why am I having such a hard time finding  1/4" TS to TSR cables?  Plenty of send-return cables with a TSR split to two TS cables, but no 1/4" stereo TSR to mono TS cables.  I mean, I've looked all over the web and have not found any yet.  I can't be the only one who needs a cable with stereo phone plug tip and ring shorted and fed to a mono phone plug.  Any suggestions on a source for this cable---could not even find one on ebay.

Even if the consensus opinion is that I'd be better with the iso out on the mic splitter, I'd like to have this cable in the bag in case there is resistance by the artist to having my mic splitter in his signal chain.  Even an artist buddy was not too receptive and felt more comfortable with me grabbing his mic feeds at the insert jack.

I must be missing something.  I spent a couple hours searching the forums, googling, etc.. to find sources for custom cable sources and such---found ONE supplier for this cable with stereo phone plug tip and ring shorted and fed to a mono phone plug I'm seeking:

http://best-tronics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BMI&Product_Code=SI6-XX&Attributes=Yes&Quantity=1

I suppose the best option is to just build some myself, but still can't figure why there aren't at least a few sources for these pre-made.  I'm still all ears if anyone knows of a source for reasonably priced pre-made ones.

Am I not getting responses on the question of mic splitter vs. insert send quality because it has been covered before?  I'll go back and search again for the answer in a prior post.....

At least a few people have looked at my post....

Offline JaL

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You should probably head over to http://www.gearslutz.com

Offline jim1274

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You should probably head over to http://www.gearslutz.com
Yeah, I kind of figured that out.  I thought of GS, but since it related to gig taping with a couple R-44's, I thought this was Ok to post.  I'm fairly new to this--sorry for posting in the wrong place.

Offline Brian Skalinder

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I'm fairly new to this--sorry for posting in the wrong place.

No worries, it's not always clear where posts should go.  Sorry we didn't have an answer for you.  I thought moving the thread here might catch more cable-specific eyes, but...doesn't seem so, yet.  Did you get an answer on GS?
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Offline jim1274

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I'm fairly new to this--sorry for posting in the wrong place.

No worries, it's not always clear where posts should go.  Sorry we didn't have an answer for you.  I thought moving the thread here might catch more cable-specific eyes, but...doesn't seem so, yet.  Did you get an answer on GS?

I did not post yet on GS--will do that.  My questioned morphed some and got a little more complicated.

One personal response I got to the question was:

As for the cables you're looking for, they don't really exist.  What you need is TRS to TRS and half click in the inserts.  The only problem with this method is that if they get fully plugged in (by accident, if someone bumps them or something) they will kill the signal to the FOH for that channel.

You need to send the tip (hot) to the ring to get signal out in parallel, but if the tip makes any kind of contact with the tip connection inside the jack (even if unconnected at the cable end) it will short it out.

So really what you'd want for doing this is a plug without a tip (just a ring), and I doubt that exists.

Insert patching is usually a BIG no-no for this very reason.  It's too dangerous in terms of potential impact to the show.

MY RESPONSE:

I'm not so sure you are correct on the cabling to grab the insert feeds for this particular board.  I read the manual and it shows this exact cable configuration for use when you want a send but have no return.  I understand what you are explaining--read about the one click method before--that is obviously risky.  Quote from the PSX2000 manual:

"If you want to use this socket as a DIRECT OUT (Pre EQ), the stereo phone plug's tip and ring have to be short circuited, so that the audio signal is not interrupted.  If you are using a monorual phone plug instead, you will get a DIRECT OUT with breaker function--the signal flow within the channel is interrupted."

It then shows a wiring diagram of the cable visually showing the configuration.


I'm now more than less confused.......

Offline H.A.V.E.

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If I understand your question right, like the previous post mentions, it'd not a common cable assembly, which is perhaps why you're having trouble locating.  The TRS plug that goes to the insert jack would need to be augmented where the tip and ring contacts are soldered together, sharing the signal path to the tip.  This would then allow the direct output of the signal, which could then terminate to a TS on the other end, or feasibly, split to 2 TS- each would be a mono signal out.  I'll double check with some other engineers here and see what thye think to double check- if you don't find elsewhere, or attemopt yourself, feel free to inquire us doing this.
Fritz
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Offline H.A.V.E.

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Quote
Second question--why am I having such a hard time finding  1/4" TS to TSR cables?  Plenty of send-return cables with a TSR split to two TS cables, but no 1/4" stereo TSR to mono TS cables.  I mean, I've looked all over the web and have not found any yet.  I can't be the only one who needs a cable with stereo phone plug tip and ring shorted and fed to a mono phone plug.  Any suggestions on a source for this cable

Sorry, PS- this cable doesn't exist without an active summing amp- two signals can't be merged into one without all sorts of funky stuff happening, frequencies cancelling out and basically sounding like garbage.  One signal can, however, passively split.
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Fritz Schwarz
Account Manager / Media Services
HAVE, Inc.
p 800-999-4283 x236
fschwarz@haveinc.com
www.HAVEinc.com

 

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