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Author Topic: 24p help needed  (Read 2171 times)

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Offline Teen Wolf Blitzer

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24p help needed
« on: April 14, 2011, 10:54:18 AM »
I was at a show last weekend.  Shot it in 60i.  After the show a guy with the band apparently shot some footage as well.  It is 24p.  He gave me the tape.  I captured it.  What do I need to do to the 24p footage to mix the 24p and 60i to make a multicam mix?  Pulldown?  I have Sony Vegas.

Offline beatkilla

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 04:12:07 PM »
His footage when you bring it into vegas under the project media tab select his footage and what are the parameters listed as?

Offline Teen Wolf Blitzer

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 06:26:53 PM »
I'm at work now.  I'll check when I get back home tonight.  And will respond again in the AM.

Offline Brian E.

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 08:40:26 PM »
i'm not sure you can easily....  60i is equivalent to 30p, and 30p =/= 24p.    I think in the end you're going to lose some frames on the high frame rate source, and it could look choppy.  The only option I see is adding interpolation into the 24p somehow.
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Offline Teen Wolf Blitzer

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2011, 10:59:23 AM »
 Video:        23.976 fps progressive, 1440x1080x12, MPEG-2
 Audio:        48,000 Hz, Stereo, MPEG Layer 2

Offline beatkilla

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2011, 12:42:26 PM »
I wonder what camera the guy used?Do you know?

I guess it depends on what your final output is going to be.Theres many options but what i would do which has the least amount of steps is this.

1)Set Vegas Project Properties to HDV 1080 24P

2)In project properties change -full resolution rendering quality to BEST

3)Change the Deinterlace method to INTERPOLATE

4)Make sure the adjust source media box is NOT checked and apply

5)Open project properties again to check the deinterlace method is still at INTERPOLATE as vegas likes to switch to blend fields behind your back(thats a known bug and sony makes no attempt to fix )

6)Make your edits and RENDER AS mainconcept mpeg-2    HDV 1080 24P

Thats what i would do......but theres different ways to handle it.



Offline tailschao

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2011, 02:39:59 PM »
OK, does anyone know if it is possible to mix 60i and 24p 2:3 telecined to 60i on a DVD in the same file?

I'm pretty sure the DVDs of some TV shows (for example Babylon 5) have the live action sequences shot on 24p film then telecined up to 60i while the VFX sequences are on as native 60i. Is this only possible if the sequences are in separate GOPs or can you mix types frame by frame, field by field as you wish? If you could do it this way, it would probably result in the best playback on DVD Players/TVs. But I don't think it's possible.

Personally, what I'd do is use AVISynth to do a very slow very high quality bob-deinterlace the 60i to 60p, then do a very slow high quality frame interpolate up to 120p. Then I'd decimate by picking every 5th frame back down to 24p. Then mix with the 24p stream. But that's just because I HATE interlacing, and it's probably overkill. I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong too.

What you could also do is interpolate the 24p up to 30p (I.E., every group of 4 frames would have to have one new interpolated frame to make 5), then just do a straight double to 60p then throw out every other field to make a faked 60i. Then edit with the native 60i as needed.

I dunno. Put it this way - for the best quality, I don't think you're going to be able to do it inside Vegas. There might be a way to force Vegas to do it if time & speed is more important than quality, but I don't know what it is.


Moral of the story - shoot progressive, unless you want to do slow-mo. Actually, moral of the story - move to Europe, over here, all we have is 25p and 50i. Easy multiples!

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2011, 06:09:13 PM »
Well I went ahead and just added the 24p to my 60i footage.  Left it as 60i.  Doesn't look weird or anything to me.  Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41UvAeO-mKo&hd=1

The 24p is the camera on the left.  I don't see anything looking out of the ordinary...

Offline tailschao

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 07:02:43 PM »
Yeah, Vegas has increased the frame rate by blending. I don't know if it's blended all the way to 60 & interlaced or just blended to 30 then doubled & interlaced, but that's what it's doing. If you look you can see the ghosting on movement. The faster the movement the more obvious the ghosting.

But if it looks OK to you that's all that matters! There are better quality ways, but, like I said, if time & speed is of importance Vegas is obviously capable of doing it itself via blending. It probably isn't worth learning a whole new work flow just for this.

Offline stantheman1976

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Re: 24p help needed
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 07:47:50 PM »
You can see some slight ghosting if you know what you're looking for.  The average person probably won't notice.  They may be able to tell the let angle seems mildly different from the right but they won't have any idea why.

If it looks decent and you're content then don't worry about it, especially if it's not a paid gig.  If you're being paid good money to deliver a project and you're given footage in different formats I'd take the time to learn the best method possible but for the time being stick with what you have.

 

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