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Author Topic: Tascam DR2d - part 2  (Read 58442 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Tascam DR2d - part 2
« on: April 04, 2012, 10:19:01 PM »
This is a continuation of the original DR2d thread.


Question: Tascam has released another generation of handheld recorders since the DR2d, yet none of them feature 4 channel recording of 2 external stereo inputs like the DR2d.  When will we see this feature on another handheld?  Think we'll ever see more than 4?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2012, 10:25:03 PM by Gutbucket »
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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 04:04:59 AM »
Checking in.

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 08:37:21 AM »
in
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Offline achalsey

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2012, 12:27:03 AM »
Alright!  First time running it tonight.  Seems to be a success, but wondering now about post production and delay issues.  Probably could be its own post rather than this but oh well.

So, do I need to do anything to the "two" separate tracks to deal with any delay from two tracks coming straight from the board feed and the other two from mics about 15' from the PA?

It seems to sound alright, but can't tell if I'm being overly judgmental expecting phasing issues or if its just a bad sounding room and this is how its going to sound.

Offline Will_S

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 01:42:13 AM »
15' is on the edge of where you need to re-sync things in post.  Fortunately there is no clock drift to deal with, you just need to sync things once.

Best thing to do is pick out some easily identifiable feature of the waveform and determine the exact time it occurs for each source, then pad the beginning of the board track or snip the beginning of the aud track to bring them back in sync.  If you can't get it perfect, I prefer to err on the side of the aud being a bit behind the board.

As a starting point, I'd expect the aud should be about 0.013 seconds behind the board.  "About" because I'm not sure how precise the 15' figure is, because there MIGHT have been some delay on the board output, and because the speed of sound will vary slightly depending on local air conditions.

Offline drivingwheel

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 01:46:43 AM »
Joining in - freaking LOVE my Dr-2d
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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 02:34:26 AM »
15' is on the edge of where you need to re-sync things in post.  Fortunately there is no clock drift to deal with, you just need to sync things once.

Best thing to do is pick out some easily identifiable feature of the waveform and determine the exact time it occurs for each source, then pad the beginning of the board track or snip the beginning of the aud track to bring them back in sync.  If you can't get it perfect, I prefer to err on the side of the aud being a bit behind the board.

As a starting point, I'd expect the aud should be about 0.013 seconds behind the board.  "About" because I'm not sure how precise the 15' figure is, because there MIGHT have been some delay on the board output, and because the speed of sound will vary slightly depending on local air conditions.

Okay, thanks.  Its probably more like 20'.  Looking at it I think the delay was closer .02 seconds.  Was a very wet, rainy, humid night, not sure how much that effects speed of sound.  Also at ~2100 feet.  Never imagined I'd be considering the physics of sound based on weather conditions and geographical location.   :P

Just looked it up, so you just divide the distance between the PA and your mics by the speed of sound (1115 ft/s) to get a rough estimate of drift then?

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2012, 09:50:09 AM »
Okay so I've been reading part 1 and came to a point where it sounds like you cannot change the line in recording volume on the fly, but you can change the mic in volume on the fly?  Is this correct? 
SP-CMC-4s (C, H, SC terminated to mini xlr)>Tinybox>Sony M10/Tascam DR-2d
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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 10:37:37 AM »
Okay so I've been reading part 1 and came to a point where it sounds like you cannot change the line in recording volume on the fly, but you can change the mic in volume on the fly?  Is this correct?
On the preamp you can.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2012, 11:18:34 AM »
Checking in, hopefully not checking out.

I just got a Sony M10 delivered last night, probably will be getting a whole lot less use on the DR2d now.

Unfortunately, came away with a couple bad recordings with the DR2d lately.  First time was an issue with an attenuator cable I made to use with the DR2d. I should know better -- something I whipped up last minute to get me through that I never built again correctly or replaced (a kluge of lots of resistors in series and parallel that were all the values I had to work with, wrapped up in electrical tape).  Worked fine for several shows, but then got moved around in my bag and shorted, screwing up the recording.

Next, just most recently at a GBA show, I was getting everything going and it seemed like I'd lower my levels on the littlebox preamp but the meters never showed the levels going down. (I had line-in from my V3 on another set of mics, and mc950>LB> mic-in for the other channels, no attenuator cable since it was toast).  I assumed this was due to overload, so started pulling cables at the show and trying to figure out how to rearrange things, then decided I didn't want to also screw up the Milab>V3>D50 recording, so I gave up and put everything back together on the DR2d.  After all that, I don't hear any distortion/overloading, but I don't know what the deal was with the levels and metering.

Oh well, in both instances I still had perfect recordings from my Milabs>V3>D50, so no huge harm.

I still think the DR2d is a nice little recorder for 4ch work, but especially if you want to use it for 4ch, a quality set of attenuators is a must IME.  For 2ch work, line-in from an external preamp with a +6dbu max input isn't too hard to manage, just keep your external preamp turned down a bit.
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Offline George

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2012, 11:46:17 AM »
Okay so I've been reading part 1 and came to a point where it sounds like you cannot change the line in recording volume on the fly, but you can change the mic in volume on the fly?  Is this correct?
On the preamp you can.

Yeah, unfortunately that involves flicking the gain switch.  Hmm, sounds like I got some testing to do!   :D
SP-CMC-4s (C, H, SC terminated to mini xlr)>Tinybox>Sony M10/Tascam DR-2d
Countryman B3 (Omni, mini xlr)>Tinybox>Sony M10/Tascam DR-2d
Audix 1200 series cable from Chris Church, pair of Audix M1280 card capsules

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2012, 12:23:24 PM »
Just looked it up, so you just divide the distance between the PA and your mics by the speed of sound (1115 ft/s) to get a rough estimate of drift then?

Simple rule of thumb is 1' ~= 1ms.

In the DAW I visually align two transients as close as possible, set the DAW's timeline 'nudge' value to 1ms, and then nudge one set of files forward or backwards in time while listening for best result.

I keep meaning to make or get some attenuators, but haven't had overload problems.  However with this deck I'm almost always using two CA-UGLYs for 4 channel mic recording, or SBD > Line-in.  I haven't run the V3 into the DR2d as I always use that into other decks.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2012, 12:48:20 PM »
Yes, my issue is that I run mics>V3>D50(digital in) for my main 2ch recording.  I want that as my "main" recording, and I want to set my levels for that with no compromises.

Then take the analog out of the V3 and have a secondary mic pair going mics>littlebox pre> DR2d.  The V3 will put out as much as +19dbu, so even sent into the DR2d line inputs, I need -13db attenuators.  Then that leaves me sending the mics>LB into the mic input, which again can be pretty easy to overload.

For my uses and application, at least one pair and probably 2 pairs of attenuators are needed.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2012, 08:22:08 PM »
I understand that completely.  l'm typically just running the digital out from the V3 into another deck for "main" mics these days.  When I used to run the same analog out into an R09 (without attenuators) I had to turn the gain down pretty low on the V3 to keep from overloading the Edirol.  Sounded fine though and I never got around to making the appropriate attenuators.. but if I ever wanted to use one of these small analog-in decks as a backup while also recording the digital out, I'd definitely need the atten's.

Most of what I'm recording with the DR2d is lower SPL material, where audience applause is often the highest peaks, so even with the relatively sensitive 4060s I need somewhere around 5-10dB of gain on both UGLYs to be in the sweet zone with the DR2d input gains at 100/67.  Whenever I plug into a SBD (~10 times or so) I wonder if I'll overload the line in, but it hasn't happend yet.
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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2012, 04:24:47 AM »
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