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Author Topic: Tascam DR2d - part 2  (Read 62875 times)

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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #345 on: July 12, 2017, 08:27:24 PM »
Can someone refresh my memory on how to set the DR-2d up for dual recording and what level should mic and line be run??  Thanks

Line : 95 minimum
Mic  : 67 minimum
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline Andrea82

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #346 on: September 09, 2017, 08:56:11 AM »
Please anyone can tell me what's new with the 1.03 firmware?

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #347 on: September 11, 2017, 11:27:11 PM »
Hi all,

Just joined the forum this make the most of my dr2d.

I don't see any notes on monitoring while recording.
Is it correct that you can only monitor the ' Mic in' during recording?

I know that you can view the levels of both the mic AND line in separately,
But can you listen to the line in and mic in separately?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #348 on: September 15, 2017, 10:58:48 AM »
Please anyone can tell me what's new with the 1.03 firmware?

Primary change was vastly increased battery run time. It was basically unusable for concert taping without an external battery before that update.  There may have been other changes I can't recall, but that was the big and most welcome change which made it a viable deck for taping.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #349 on: September 15, 2017, 11:03:13 AM »
I don't see any notes on monitoring while recording.
Is it correct that you can only monitor the ' Mic in' during recording?

I know that you can view the levels of both the mic AND line in separately,
But can you listen to the line in and mic in separately?

Correct.  You can switch visual metering back and forth at any time by pressing the DUAL button.  But you can only audio monitor the mic-input while recording.  You cannot audio-monitor the Line-input while recording.

During playback you can switch between and play the line-in and mic-in file successively, but cannot switch between them mid-stream.
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Offline drivingwheel

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #350 on: October 02, 2017, 04:11:02 PM »
Hoping there will be one as this recorder is uniqe in its functionality and no other manufacturer or Tascam model has the same feature set.

It's completely dumb that they quit making it.  Simply the best recorder of its size or price point.
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open : Peluso CEMC-6 (cards)>Edirol ua-5 (d-mod)/Fostex FR-2LE (Busman t-mod)/Tascam DR-2D

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Offline fandelive

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #351 on: November 04, 2017, 09:50:54 AM »
Can anyone give any feedback on the use of the LEVEL CTRL function (use juster manual page 44) and especially the LMT option ?

What user manual says :
LEVEL CTRL: Set the level control function for the second file in dual recording. The options are OFF (default setting), AUTO and LMT.
  • OFF: Level control is disabled.
  • AUTO: The input gain of the unit is changed according to the input level, adjusting loud and quiet sounds to the same volume level.
  • LMT: The input gain of the unit is adjusted according to the input level, so that distortion is avoided even if loud sounds are input.

From what I understand, the LMT option is pure magic because you're 100% sure to get clean results (unless the input source is distorted, of course - but in this case, I can't see the AUTO option to be more helpfull, anyway...).

I'm getting a soundboard feed at a show in a couple of days. I might not be able to check the levels once the show has begun. That LEVEL CTRL function with LMT option would solve that issue.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 03:44:53 AM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, SP-BMC-12, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #352 on: November 06, 2017, 10:24:38 AM »
A limiter will prevent hard-clipped overs, yet has audible impact when it comes into operation.

As a safety mechanism preventing the worse damage it can be good insurance, but it's always preferable to set levels appropriately so that signal dynamics range within the input limits of the device without engaging the limiter.

I prefer to set input levels low enough so that there is plenty of headroom and I don't need to worry about clipping or limiters engaging.  No worries if I need to boost level afterwards by 20dB or whatever.  Boosting afterwards is only a problem if the signal drops below the noise-floor of your recording system and you end up getting audible self-noise of your recording system during the quiet segments.  Even then it can be difficult to determine if the noise you hear in the quiet segments is the self-noise of your recording system or the noise-floor of the environment in which you are recording being amplified .
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Offline fandelive

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #353 on: November 16, 2017, 03:42:44 AM »
If :

Can someone refresh my memory on how to set the DR-2d up for dual recording and what level should mic and line be run??  Thanks

Line : 95 minimum
Mic  : 67 minimum


Then, is the following statement true ?

67/95 probably means amplification for the line in signal. When you plug in "Mic in" and you set low sensitivity and levels to 67 db, it is the same as you plug in "Line in" with levels 95 db. Do not set 100 db with "Line in", clipping signaling does not work well at this level.
Mics : Sony ECM-717, SP-BMC-12, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #354 on: November 16, 2017, 09:13:09 AM »
67 mic-in provides about the same input sensitivity as 95 line-in. 
In addition, those settings are also "do not go below" numbers to avoid input stage overload.
Settings higher than 67 mic-in and 95 line-in are okay.

Not sure about this statement-
Quote
Do not set 100 db with "Line in", clipping signaling does not work well at this level.

I've not had problems using 100 line-in (its my current setting) and there is no distortion problem at that setting, but I don't monitor the clipping LED either, so that might be correct.  If it is it's the first I've heard of it.
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Offline dallman

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #355 on: November 16, 2017, 11:33:09 AM »
67 mic-in provides about the same input sensitivity as 95 line-in. 
In addition, those settings are also "do not go below" numbers to avoid input stage overload.
Settings higher than 67 mic-in and 95 line-in are okay.

Not sure about this statement-
Quote
Do not set 100 db with "Line in", clipping signaling does not work well at this level.

I've not had problems using 100 line-in (its my current setting) and there is no distortion problem at that setting, but I don't monitor the clipping LED either, so that might be correct.  If it is it's the first I've heard of it.
I have never had an issue at 100db "line in" either. The deck handles a hot signal nicely in my experience. I have never gone below 95db as in my setup it is just too low a signal, so I cannot address that issue but it seems well documented from the very early days of this decks release. I have never run "mic in" so I cannot speak to that either.
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Offline PaulCayard

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #356 on: November 16, 2017, 02:17:17 PM »
67 mic-in provides about the same input sensitivity as 95 line-in. 
In addition, those settings are also "do not go below" numbers to avoid input stage overload.
What's the meaning of "input stage overload"? Thanks for any clarification :-)
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Offline fandelive

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #357 on: November 16, 2017, 05:01:41 PM »
67 mic-in provides about the same input sensitivity as 95 line-in. 
In addition, those settings are also "do not go below" numbers to avoid input stage overload.
Settings higher than 67 mic-in and 95 line-in are okay.

My last concert was a rock concert (but not "ear-bleeding" as I could actually enjoy the music without using my ear plugs from where I stood).

It was in a 1000 capacity venue. Soundboard was in the middle of the room, dead center. I stood FOB.

MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k) > 9V bbox > mic-in (low, levels @ 88/100). The sound spectrum reaches -10dB at its peak.
DPA 4061 > 9V bbox > line-in (levels @ 100/100). The sound spectrum in Audacity barely reaches the -20dB threshold. It's pretty low. Even if I record in 48kHz/24-bit, wouldn't it be any loss of quality if I normalize the sound in post ???

My next show is probably gonna be MUCH louder (as I also plan to stand within the very first rows). I'd like to try :
DPA 4061 > 9V bbox > mic-in (low, levels @ 88/100 + dual backup track @ -12dB).

But maybe setting levels @ 79/100 (67+12) + dual backup track @ -12dB would be safer ? Or even keep recording line-in as I did previously if the built-in line preamp is able to take a hotter signal than the mic preamp ?

It's hard to make up my mind as I want safe results with no loss of sound quality if I have to boost up the volume in post...

Problem is that I won't be able to check my levels while recording.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 05:04:29 PM by fandelive »
Mics : Sony ECM-717, SP-BMC-12, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #358 on: November 16, 2017, 05:23:18 PM »
67 mic-in provides about the same input sensitivity as 95 line-in. 
In addition, those settings are also "do not go below" numbers to avoid input stage overload.
What's the meaning of "input stage overload"? Thanks for any clarification :-)

The analog input stage (mic/line preamp section) overloading prior to the signal reaching the ADC chip.  Commonly referred to as "brickwalling" in TS vernacular.  The input stage is saturated and distorting heavily (typically beginning with loud kick drum and/or bass) yet the signal level after that reaching the ADC is still within the operational limits of the ADC input.

The level as indicated on the meters will not typically reach 0dBfs and the clipping light may not activate.  Usually the meters appear to top-out at a certain level and never exceed that, which appears okay at first glance, but the motion of the metering often has less dynamic "bounce" than you'd normally see, and the meters will tend to spend more time at that maximum ceiling level than they normally would.

It happens when an input exceeds the maximum input level the recorder is capable of, even though the recorder may still have lower input settings available.  Setting the input level lower at that point will only lower the recorded level, but will not reduce level prior to the input stage so doing so will not reduce the distortion.

The fix is knowing what that "don't go below" setting is for the recorder in question, and reducing the signal level prior to it reaching the recorder so that you keep it at that setting or higher.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #359 on: November 16, 2017, 05:53:24 PM »
My next show is probably gonna be MUCH louder.. Problem is that I won't be able to check my levels while recording.

In that case I'd probably keep everything the same.  4061>BB>line-in(100).  You'll need and will use up much of that 20dB of headroom for something much louder.

Quote
The sound spectrum in Audacity barely reaches the -20dB threshold. It's pretty low. Even if I record in 48kHz/24-bit, wouldn't it be any loss of quality if I normalize the sound in post

I don't sweat a signal peaking at -20dBfs, boosting the level of the file afterwards will not degrade the sound.  You will only degrade sound by amplifying afterwards if if the noise-floor of your recording chain exceeds the noise-floor of the recording environment, in which case you may begin to hear excess hiss in the quiet portions after amplifying.  You'd need pretty low levels or an unusually quiet recording environment for that.   And even then it's often hard to know if you are just hearing the noise floor of the room being amplified along with everything else or the noise floor of your recording chain exceeding that of the room.

For something about same SPL or lower, you could switch to using Mic-input set to low-sensitivity and increase the recording level above 67 as much as needed.  If you find you are using a rather high input level to get good levels with the low-sensitivity mic-input setting, or for significantly quieter stuff, you could switch the mic input sensitivity to Medium and use a lower input level setting.  Using the mic-input lets you adjust levels while recording if necessary and if you can do so.  That can be done using the IR remote even with the hold-switch engaged if you activate remote capability in the recorder setup menu.
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