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Author Topic: Tekkeon 3450i failure  (Read 4528 times)

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Offline microburst

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Tekkeon 3450i failure
« on: October 09, 2012, 03:25:07 PM »
I had my first extremely frustrating Tekkeon battery failure on Sunday 10/7 at MMW.  At the time I was running Schoeps mk5 cards->kc-5->cmc6xt->sx-m2->mme->744t to channels 3/4 and mk21->kc-5->cmc6->744t to channels 1/2.  The mk5 pair was supposed to be the 'go to' capture with the mk21 pair as the "backup" or "fuck it lets see how it sounds" source.

I was using what appeared to be a fully charged Tekkeon 3450i to power my Mini-Me.  This was a relatively short two set 60-65 minutes per set show, nothing major.  I powered up the two tekkeons, one running a SX-M2 and 1 running the MME, at about 7:15 and the band came on sharply at 7:30 playing a short 63 minute or so set.

At set break I left everything running as I was expecting a short show and never had any close calls with the tekkeons whatsoever.  Set break was 30 minutes, tops.  Anyway, mid second set about 32 minutes into the set I looked down and noticed that channels 3/4 in the 744T were flat but channels 1/2 were still operating fine.  At this point I quickly noticed that the MME was dead and the battery powering the unit was showing no life either.  At this point I shut off the battery and turned it back on immediately -> nothing happened.  Next, I shut off the apogee and battery and checked the battery meter which showed a near full charge (1 of the 6 or so power lights were not illuminated, indicating a near full charge).  Next, I powered on the battery, set the voltage, and re-fired up the MME and all looked fine, levels returned and everything is ok.  Back to enjoying the show.

3-5 minutes later I look down and channels 3/4 are dead again.  At this point, since the battery meters were still reading a near full charge, I decided to unplug the battery, power down the MME and let the battery breath as it was hot as hell next to the other 3450i in the gear bag.  Maybe 3-5 minutes later I plugged the battery in again and went through the same process where the battery worked for a few minutes then died.  At this point I gave up but wasn't too upset since I had the backup mk21s running in the 1/2.

Fast forward 12 hours later, I get back home from Bethel and begin working on the mk21 source.  Sound is decent, but the mk5 is definitely better.  I have set 1 w/ the mk5s so no big deal.  In listening to set 2 of the mk21s source I noticed that each time the tekkeon lost power or was restarted  the 744T introduced brief dropouts on the mk21 source in channels 1/2.  In total there may be about 6-8 dropouts from 1-3 seconds on my mk21 set 2 source, and a 32 minute mk5 source.  I was running AES->BNC from the MME->744T recording to a poly 24/96 wav file. 

Question: Why would I get dropouts on channels 1/2 in the above scenario??   I'm thinking back to the DAT days and can think of several possible scenarios here, but would prefer definitive info as opposed my own speculation. 
Question: If I was recording to 4 mono wav files would these dropouts on 1/2 still be there?

Also, FWIW when I got home from Bethel yesterday I charged up everything and tested the life of the MME on this same fully charged Tekkeon and it lasted only 3 hrs.  Suffice it to say this Tekkeon is no longer reliable for my needs and it's only 7 months old tops, used probably 50 times.  I'm not pleased with learning this either and since I didn't register this unit with Tekkeon for warranty I'm now likely out ~$100 on a new battery. 

Question: Anyone have Tekkeons failing to hold an adequate charge after about 75-100 hours of use??  Perhaps I forgot to turn this one off after the last show I taped draining it completely, which may have impacted its useful life.

So, for all you MMW fans, I was the only open taper at the 10/7 show in Bethel.  Someone sitting behind me was running a stealth rig with internal mics (I believe) but I didn't get his info for a patch source since I didn't think I'd need it.  I won't be posting this recording - nothing special anyway other than a 17 minute Doppler...all the rest of the show was heard at the preceeding shows.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 03:29:24 PM by microburst »

Offline page

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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 03:46:27 PM »
So the mini-me died and you got drop-outs on the other two non-MME channels? Did I get that right? If so, it would be related to switching from the MME clock back to the 744's.

One thing I've noticed about the 3450 batteries (industrial or normal) is that you can't put any pressure on the cable on the battery end. It wants to abnormally build up heat or a slow discharge via a non-conductive short or something. I've never had mine shut down early without age being a concern. That in mind, the few occasions I've checked it after a couple of songs where it shuffled in the bag and put strain on the battery socket, it wanted to seriously heat up. I don't know how related those two occurrences are, but I don't think it's helping the cause.
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Offline microburst

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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 03:59:17 PM »
So the mini-me died and you got drop-outs on the other two non-MME channels? Did I get that right? If so, it would be related to switching from the MME clock back to the 744's.

One thing I've noticed about the 3450 batteries (industrial or normal) is that you can't put any pressure on the cable on the battery end. It wants to abnormally build up heat or a slow discharge via a non-conductive short or something. I've never had mine shut down early without age being a concern. That in mind, the few occasions I've checked it after a couple of songs where it shuffled in the bag and put strain on the battery socket, it wanted to seriously heat up. I don't know how related those two occurrences are, but I don't think it's helping the cause.
Yes, the dropouts were on the 2 non-MME channels which were using the 744T internal A/D.

There was no pressure on the cable tips or the battery connection at all as I had the gear bag open.  The batts are snug like a glove in the bag and don't get shuffled, moved or otherwise knocked at all.  I'm now thinking I must have forgot to shut the Tekkeon off after my last gig, which killed the thing. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 04:01:01 PM by microburst »

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 06:31:53 PM »
That sucks bro :( Makes no sense to me. Just one more reason I told King Kita[Chris] that I wont buy a Tekkeon :P :(
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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 09:44:54 PM »
As page says - the drop outs are caused by the loss of the clock from the mme and switching over to the internal clock (if you had a mytek or AD1000 you could probably use the 744 as the master clock (using an BNC cable from the 744 back to the AD)).

I have a Tekkeon m3400 and it will turn off when the voltage gets low enough even when the meters read a decent charge.
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Offline microburst

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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2012, 09:07:35 AM »
Thanks guys.  So I guess the answer to my second question is "yes" that I would have experienced these droupouts on the non-MME channels regardless of whether or not I was recording to a poly wav file or 4 mono wavs.  I might have to sell the MME knowing this.

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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 08:52:32 AM »
I might have to sell the MME knowing this.

Why not just go to a more reliable battery solution so you don't lose power to the MME? 

I'm not really sure what's going on with your Tekkeon, but let's give this some thought.  I have a mini-me and I know it's a fairly power hungry piece of gear.  It's possible that your tekkeon just isn't that compatible with the MME, even if you've run it before (batteries do age and their capacities and characteristics change with age and use and as the battery depletes itself).  There was recently another thread where a tekkeon had melted under the heavy load of powering a SD788.  There wasn't a definitive conclusion to what happened, but discussion centered around performance issues of the tekkeon under heavy load, internal resistance changes under load and the possibility of the potential effects of a weak cell or increased internal resistance upon depletion.  Since your battery was hot, seems like there might be a common theme, but again I'm wondering if the current draw of the MME might not be a root cause of the issue, and perhaps not necessarily whether or not your Tekkeon is up to snuff.

If there WAS a high internal resistance in the battery for any reason at all, which seems likely since you also said the battery was hot, that would have caused a voltage drop and, if Richard is correct that there is a low voltage cut on the battery, that would explain why the battery kept shutting down when load was re-applied.

It's possible that your tekkeon didn't really fail on you the other night as much as it's just not the best partner for your MME.

Offline microburst

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Re: Tekkeon 3450i failure
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 07:09:26 PM »
You make some good points tonedeaf.  I have two virgin tekkeon r3's (http://www.tekkeon.com/downloads/dtasht_mp3450.pdf) that I can marry with this battery if I want to and plan to do until I figure out what to do long-term.  Not sure I want to buy another Tekkeon just yet though.  Don't get me wrong, love the sax/mme combo but the size of the mme is prohibitive at times and this battery issue gave me a bad taste.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 07:11:00 PM by microburst »

 

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