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Author Topic: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps  (Read 8858 times)

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Offline goldenhours

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Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« on: March 29, 2013, 07:28:09 PM »
Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I hope somebody can help me with this:

I recently purchased a Nagra SD with the clip-on stereo mic (high quality green band type). I usually record fairly quiet sounds (nature sounds and very subtle sound improvs) and was hoping to use this as an ultra-portable, cable and hassle-free setup. I made a few test recordings but for some reason I find the results all rather noisy, with an audible hiss, more of it than I would get on my Zoom H2 or my Marantz PMD661 using their onboard mics (for example).

I'm using the high gain setting with the green band clip-on mic and the input level set to between. 105-90dB (i.e. only ca. 1/4 turned up). I don't think I'm doing anything wrong and something tells me this shouldn't be as noisy...

One of the reasons why I went for the 'legendary' yet pricey Nagra option was to have a quiet setup with a low noise floor. I am disillusioned now. Is this it, or may I have actually get a faulty unit?

Any comments or advice would be really appreciated.

David

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 07:59:44 PM »
Do you get similar results using those mics on your marantz or zoom? Trying to figure out if its the mics (likely) or the recorder.
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Offline goldenhours

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2013, 08:14:40 PM »
Do you get similar results using those mics on your marantz or zoom? Trying to figure out if its the mics (likely) or the recorder.

The clip-on mics I'm using are from Nagra and they don't fit onto any other make of recorder, hence I'm not able to make that direct comparison.
Nagra offer a few different types of clip-on capsules and the ones I'm using are supposedly the 'high quality' ones. Reading their marketing blurbs one would expect those to be at least as good as your better portable recorder onboard mic!

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2013, 08:24:52 PM »

I'm using the high gain setting with the green band clip-on mic and the input level set to between. 105-90dB (i.e. only ca. 1/4 turned up).
David

Try using a low gain setting with the record level set higher.

Make sure there's no automatic gain control.
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Offline goldenhours

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 09:41:34 PM »

Try using a low gain setting with the record level set higher.

Make sure there's no automatic gain control.

I just made another few test recordings. It doesn't make much of a difference whether I use hi-gain and low record level or vice-versa. I suppose that would speak in favour of the preamp, and perhaps I need to resign to the fact that those Nagra clip-on mics aren't that suitable for what I want to record after all, and that I should have used the money towards buying external mics with very low noise levels. It's a pity though as I was looking forward to a setup that would work without cables...

Offline George2

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2013, 12:33:29 PM »
Verify AGC Off. Mic power On.
Have same recorder and green mic.
I thought it is quiet.
What are you trying to record and how far away?
Sennheiser 418s>SDMixPre-D>RO9HR
Beyer MC930>Fostex FM3>NagraSD
Couple of Schoeps CMT441 too.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2013, 01:36:53 PM »
You didn't buy a nagra. You bought a piece of junk Chinese toy with a nagra badge on it. Sorry.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159790.0
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
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Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
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Offline goldenhours

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2013, 09:09:44 PM »
Verify AGC Off. Mic power On.
Have same recorder and green mic.
I thought it is quiet.
What are you trying to record and how far away?

The mic sounds great and the noise level is quiet enough when recording relatively close up with a decent level, however, when trying to record a low level ambience (birds in the garden ca. 10metres away, traffic in the far distance) it does get very hissy.
Of course, a little box with $300 capsules (be it Nagra or Nagra made in China) doesn't replace a high end setup, but I had just hoped it would be a bit better on the noise end.

Offline John Willett

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 04:35:42 AM »
Verify AGC Off. Mic power On.
Have same recorder and green mic.
I thought it is quiet.
What are you trying to record and how far away?

The mic sounds great and the noise level is quiet enough when recording relatively close up with a decent level, however, when trying to record a low level ambience (birds in the garden ca. 10metres away, traffic in the far distance) it does get very hissy.
Of course, a little box with $300 capsules (be it Nagra or Nagra made in China) doesn't replace a high end setup, but I had just hoped it would be a bit better on the noise end.

I also have the SD with the green-ring mic. head - but you are really pushing it too far with what you are recording.

For what you are doing you really need quiet mics with a high output and a top-end mic. pre.

The Nagra SD with the green ring is a great little portable unit for all sorts of things - but for what you are doing I replace the mic. head with the XLR line input cable and use a Nagre EMP or AETA MIXY with good mics (eg: Sennheiser MKH 8000 series).

Still light and portable, but you are pushing it too far with using it as you are.

Offline goldenhours

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 07:37:47 PM »
I also have the SD with the green-ring mic. head - but you are really pushing it too far with what you are recording.

For what you are doing you really need quiet mics with a high output and a top-end mic. pre.

The Nagra SD with the green ring is a great little portable unit for all sorts of things - but for what you are doing I replace the mic. head with the XLR line input cable and use a Nagre EMP or AETA MIXY with good mics (eg: Sennheiser MKH 8000 series).

Still light and portable, but you are pushing it too far with using it as you are.

Thank you John for your feedback and advice. I guess I needed someone to tell me that my expectations were too high.
I do like the SD for what it is and I was thinking about using it as a line-level recorder. The gear you mention is outside my current budget I'm afraid, and since the recording part of my working with sound is not the main aspect of my practice (I am a composer), I'll rarely have the means of buying even one new item.

I've gone through my share of gear over the years. Currently the best mics I own are a stereo pair of Oktava MK012 with the premium modifications from Bill Sitler and exchangeable capsules. I have made some (in my humble opinion) pretty decent field recordings with these using a self-made shockmount, basket and windjammer, going into a Marantz PMD661 (the latter of which is out of action, hence the purchase of the Nagra).

I am now hoping to upgrade my gear bit by bit over the next while, starting with a Rycote windshield kit, using the Oktavas as a MS pair with their ∞ adapter. The question is, in terms of preamps, what would be my best option, for ca. €1000 or less, to power the mics and bring them into the line input of the Nagra? Would I go for something like the SD MixPre? Any further advice would be much appreciated.

Offline vegreville

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Re: Nagra SD - Noisy Preamps
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2016, 03:36:27 AM »
Ok i know this thread is old but thought i would add to it just because it may help someone....
I just bought the Nagra Sd to use with my DPA 4060 mics.
I was hoping that it could power them from its internal 3 volts and it can. They sound very good and very quiet...
So good I decided to compare the direct setup to them plugged and powered by my Sound Devices MixPre-D via the line input of the Nagra.
Surprisingly I can barely tell the two setups apart. There are some subtle eq differences (not sure which I prefer) but noise-wise they are close to identical. Both very quiet.
Not what I expected but I am super pleased as I am always trying to get the smallest setup available and the Mixpre-D is great but super heavy compared to the tiny Nagra SD.

Nagra SD direct setup:
DPA 4060 to Microdot connector>Microdot to 1/8 adapters from DPA for each mic (So stupid expensive!) >specially built Y female to male stereo to fit the single stereo 1/8 input of the Nagra...

 

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