Topic: Sony M10 Memory Card Error

[stardustz]

It seems that I can never get the Sony M10 to recognize my memory card on the first try, I need to re-insert it a few times before it works.  I have tried Transcend and Sandisc Class 10 micro SDHC cards, and both have the same problem.  It is a pain as M10 doesn't tell you there is a problem until you go to memory to check it.... do I have a faulty unit or is there problem with the way I insert the cards?

Thank you!

[vanark]

I don't think you are doing anything wrong - I'm about 50% on having it recognize it on first try.  I just do it slowly and make sure it isn't skewed.  Just a poor design to accommodate the use of the Sony memory stick in the same slot (as if anyone uses those.)

[beatkilla]

I never remove mine i just plug m10 into computer it doesnt take that to transfer.

[Phil Zone]

What is up with all m10 problems recently...

[vanark]

I don't see this issue as anything new or as a "problem".  It is what it is and has been a known quirkiness from the beginning.

I don't hesitate at all to pull the micro-SD card out because of it and would never resort to using the SLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW direct USB connection to the M-10.

[bluewingolive]

I never remove mine i just plug m10 into computer it doesnt take that to transfer.

+T.  Go make some coffee...come back.  Done.  No issues.

[vanark]

I've got a Keurig machine.  By the time I came back, it would definitely still be transferring. 

[beatkilla]

I start on internal memory and cross recording to card if needed so USB is needed and it only takes about 10mins for a 2 hour show for me.

[trubbaman]

I regularly transfer 1-2 hour shows recorded at 24/48 from internal memory and they take about 30 seconds to transfer. I rarely fill the internal and spill over to the card, but even then the transfer time is hardly bothersome. Isn't the M10 a USB 2.0 device?

[lsd2525]

M10 xfers slow as crap compared to my DR60R.........

[trubbaman]

I had another transfer yesterday and I paid attention to the transfer speed. Clearly, I was full of it because it took me about four minutes to transfer 90 minutes worth of material. I'm an idiot.

[earmonger]

Well, even if you took the card out it wouldn't be instantaneous.  For the few minutes of difference, I'd still rather leave the card in the PCM-M10 and not fiddle with the slot. Of course I do my coffee with a filter...

[vanark]

Sorry, but it takes me only 15 seconds to take the card out and put it in an adapter that sits in my SD card slot on my computer.  I'm happy to pull it out and access my files quicker, knowing that I have to be careful putting it back in.  Certainly not much longer than it takes to plug the USB cable in.

[F.O.Bean]

I had another transfer yesterday and I paid attention to the transfer speed. Clearly, I was full of it because it took me about four minutes to transfer 90 minutes worth of material. I'm an idiot.

Hahaha, I thought that seemed a lil fast for a transfer thru the M10 lol I do what Beatkilla does and just leave the card in the m10 unless I need to switch cards at a festie. I have inserting the card DOWN to the first try most times now, but I still leave the card in. One less thing to go wrong at showtime I have a card reader thats fast as shit too, but Id just rather not deal with it. Its still WAY faster than real-time transferring, which Im SOOO glad I dont have to do anymore, and whats 10 more minutes anyway But if I still arent tired after the show, I MIGHT throw it in the card reader so I can get it edited that night, but a single show only takes 5 minutes to transfer anyway! It basically just comes down to personal preference. As long as you check and make sure the card was inserted correctly and its able to read it, before the show, then go ahead and take the card out and use a card reader

And when I come home from 4 day festies, I just hook the m10 up and go take a shower and stuff, and by the time Im done, so is the m10

[stevetoney]

If doing a show, read from the recorder and take a shower.  If you never take showers, change your underwear. 

If you're doing a festival, use a reader and take a really long shower or wash your underwear. 

[RAQnasty]

Steve - do you use the M10?  If so, can you comment on your experience?

Leaning toward the M10 to replace my Edirol which has a dying OLED display...

have you ever had any file writing issues or file corruption issues with the M10?  I just dont want a recorder that opens the door to lost file at the end of the show.

[earmonger]

I have done more shows than I can remember with a PCM-M10. You will have the show when you are done. 

I had one problem with one 4GB card in connecting to the PCM-M10 via a cord....but putting the card in the computer itself (with adapter/slot) gave me the show, so I think it was a Windows glitch.  Really, the PCM-M10 is rock solid.

[Scooter123]

I prefer to record directly to the hard drive as opposed to the card.  It is faster and less likely of card write error from RF transmissions

[kleiner Rainer]

I prefer to record directly to the hard drive as opposed to the card.  It is faster and less likely of card write error from RF transmissions

Wrong. RF Immunity is tested when applying for CE and FCC certification. So unless you use a homebrew recorder, thats not an issue.

In fact, the probability of a harddisc failure is higher than a card error, because the HDD is a mechanical system with lots of moving parts. I already had a defective HDD, the only defective flash USB memory I ever saw was obviously a fake and could be detected with a test program before any real data was written. Unless you buy from obscure sources, the memory card is the better solution: reliability, power consumption, access times and robustness all speak for memory cards.

My motto for HDDs: backup, backup, backup. And avoid mechanical shock... thats hard to do for a portable recording system.
BTW a flash card as OS drive for a computer is muuuch faster than a HDD: my workstation at work has a SSD as boot drive
and a HDD for data that is mirrored by our company server to avoid data loss, so I know from own experience how fast that machine boots compared to my old HDD-only workstation.

If given the option, I would replace a HDD with a flash based memory in an audio recorder without thinking twice - the advantages (and my experience with Flash based embedded systems from an engineers viewpoint) far outweigh the risks.

Greetings,

Rainer

[larrysellers]

The only problem I have experienced with the M10 was forgetting to format the memory card using the M10 before recording. Like clockwork, it would produce a bunch of audible errors in the recording after about 70 minutes. I almost always use the built in storage unless I actually need the extra space.

[beatkilla]

I don't think the M-10 has an internal hard drive,im sure it is internal flash.

[hi and lo]

I don't think the M-10 has an internal hard drive,im sure it is internal flash.

Correct.

Nevertheless, Kleiner is absolutely right. When I read "card write error from RF transmission" this morning all I could do was go "huh?" I have never heard of such a thing and after some searching, Google hasn't either. You should record to whatever medium you prefer and not over complicate things.

[hoserama]

I think scooter123 means the RF interference which results when you're using an SD-card based recorder and you're recorder from a low-level RF signal signal, such as an ALD or IEM recording. I can concur that such interference exists with SD cards. Not so much that any RF would affect a regular action of recording onto a SD card of a recorder.

[hi and lo]

I think scooter123 means the RF interference which results when you're using an SD-card based recorder and you're recorder from a low-level RF signal signal, such as an ALD or IEM recording. I can concur that such interference exists with SD cards. Not so much that any RF would affect a regular action of recording onto a SD card of a recorder.

I highly doubt it, mostly because scooter has integrity unlike a scumbag that would record an ALD or IEM.

[hoserama]

I think scooter123 means the RF interference which results when you're using an SD-card based recorder and you're recorder from a low-level RF signal signal, such as an ALD or IEM recording. I can concur that such interference exists with SD cards. Not so much that any RF would affect a regular action of recording onto a SD card of a recorder.

I highly doubt it, mostly because scooter has integrity unlike a scumbag that would record an ALD or IEM.

This post is funny on so many levels.

[Sloan Simpson]

I think scooter123 means the RF interference which results when you're using an SD-card based recorder and you're recorder from a low-level RF signal signal, such as an ALD or IEM recording. I can concur that such interference exists with SD cards. Not so much that any RF would affect a regular action of recording onto a SD card of a recorder.

I highly doubt it, mostly because scooter has integrity unlike a scumbag that would record an ALD or IEM.

This post is funny on so many levels.

How many?

[hoserama]

I think scooter123 means the RF interference which results when you're using an SD-card based recorder and you're recorder from a low-level RF signal signal, such as an ALD or IEM recording. I can concur that such interference exists with SD cards. Not so much that any RF would affect a regular action of recording onto a SD card of a recorder.

I highly doubt it, mostly because scooter has integrity unlike a scumbag that would record an ALD or IEM.

This post is funny on so many levels.

How many?

I can think of at least three, but I'm sure there's more. One has to do with scooter having too much integrity to do iems/alds, another has to do with taperssection's (generally speaking) condescension of wireless taping in general, and then the third of the absurdity of scooter's original post if it's not my reasonable explanation.

Not trying to get into the morals and ethics of RF taping (which is off-topic), just saying it's an amusing comment by hi and low.

That said, scooter is more than able to explain what he actually meant by his comment, and I'm not trying to put words in his mouth.

[hi and lo]

I can think of at least three, but I'm sure there's more. One has to do with scooter having too much integrity to do iems/alds

I don't see how this is at all funny. Archiving a concert as it was intended to be heard from the audience is entirely different than stealing a private signal that was never meant to be public.

another has to do with taperssection's (generally speaking) condescension of wireless taping in general

We're opposed to this because it jeopardizes everyone's stake in live concert recordings, legitimate or otherwise. If you think this is condescending, it's merely reflects your lack of respect for those that appreciate unfettered access to archival recordings. Even a single IEM recording jeopardizes everything that live concert recordists have worked for decades to achieve.

and then the third of the absurdity of scooter's original post if it's not my reasonable explanation.

There's was nothing absurd about Scooter's original post. We're not radio-frequency engineers and it was an interesting comment that I had to Google to get a definitive answer. If it was a common problem, I wouldn't have been surprised, but personally I've never heard of such an issue.

[hoserama]

First part--PM'ed you privately hi & lo about this.

Second part--this is not the thread to debate the morals/ethics of wireless taping (and if you start a thread, I would have no problem politely debating it), so I'm just going to drop that for now.

Third part--I can almost guarantee (but I could be wrong of course) that the post was in relation to the recorder affecting RF receivers, and not RF transmission affecting the card. Nobody here has ever had issues with RF (like a cell phone) affecting a card right. Unbalanced cables? Sure. But not the card. However, SD cards can and do cause interference for RF receivers if nearby. Obviously this wouldn't affect you or most tapers, so just take it as a useless bit of trivia for now.

[Sloan Simpson]

I think scooter123 means the RF interference which results when you're using an SD-card based recorder and you're recorder from a low-level RF signal signal, such as an ALD or IEM recording. I can concur that such interference exists with SD cards. Not so much that any RF would affect a regular action of recording onto a SD card of a recorder.

I highly doubt it, mostly because scooter has integrity unlike a scumbag that would record an ALD or IEM.

This post is funny on so many levels.

How many?

I can think of at least three, but I'm sure there's more. One has to do with scooter having too much integrity to do iems/alds, another has to do with taperssection's (generally speaking) condescension of wireless taping in general, and then the third of the absurdity of scooter's original post if it's not my reasonable explanation.

Not trying to get into the morals and ethics of RF taping (which is off-topic), just saying it's an amusing comment by hi and low.

That said, scooter is more than able to explain what he actually meant by his comment, and I'm not trying to put words in his mouth.

I asked because usually when people say "so many levels", they mean one or two. I guess three could be considered "many."

[Scooter123]

Gosh, I love pissing contests.  But moving the conversation from so-called "scum bags" to the issue, which is whether there is some advantage into recording with the HD as opposed to the card, let me respond.

I am not a RF expert.  I'm just  a dumb taper since 1970.  Thus, my comments are only my experience, not a scientific explanation for the phenomenon. 

I have experienced some static and interference when using the Edirol machine (which recorded only to a SD card) and my Sony M-10 when the setting was made to record to the SD Card.  Does it happen all the time?  Nope, quite infrequently in fact.  In my own lack of knowledge explanation, I attribute the phenomenon to Cell Phones and RF interference, since I was using unbalanced cords.  It seemed to happen less (actually not at all) when I switched the Sony M-10 to recording to the internal hard drive, whether than be a SSD or flash, or another form of digital storage, I do not know, as I haven't bothered to research how the Sony's are made or what the particular internal drive is, or is not.  Also, I switched from a cheap preamp to a thick bulky preamp with a solid metal case.  That might have been the remedy I don't know. 

So, that's my experience--whether it was RF interference, cell phones, text messages, an accident, the preamp, or just the hand of God reaching out to punish me for my sins, I do not know, but it disappeared when I started recording to the Sony hard drive.

Now on to the "scum bag" taper discussion, which I believe was leveled at some tapers which might record wireless, or maybe it was leveled at me, (I've been known to pull the occasional RF transmission), I don't know. 

Taping and all forms of taping, unless the band and the venue give the taper explicit consent, is stealing, and even then violates copyright laws unless the band consents to its informal distribution through trading or torrent sites.  An audience tape that was never intended by the band or the venue to be recorded and distributed to those not paying an admission price is stealing.  That's why almost every band and venue has "no recording" policies, and will throw you out for recording.  So the belief that audience recording, as opposed to IEM and ALD recording, is somehow better, misses the mark.  This is because all forms of taping (without band and venue consent) is stealing, might be illegal, and will get the taper thrown out of the venue.   If you doubt this, then try to set up a recorder in plain view at your local venue, and see how many minutes you'll last before being gleefully thrown out.   Go ahead, try to tell the band and security  that you're merely archiving it.  Let me know how this works out. 

Unless the taper can get past that moral roadblock, a taper won't be much a taper.  To draw some sort of artificial moral line in the sand between the two is, in my belief, hypocritical.   

[earmonger]

I think the whole morality issue is getting endlessly more complicated. Anyone with a cellphone can record a video: one song, the whole show, whatever.It might sound like a big disorted mess, or not. So touring musicians have a choice: try out new material that might end up on YouTube, or not? I know bands think about this a lot. Fans should too.