Topic: Adobe Audition multitrack

[ts]

So I got my first 4 channel recording using the DR60D. SBD and Aud. So now what do I do? Click on multitrack in AA and? Or something else first? Also, the right channel on the board feed is almost non existent. I'm thinking since it's just three instruments I can copy the left channel to the right and proceed. Thanks!

[capnhook]

Sure, copy the left channel over, but save the right channel, make it mono, and fold in a bit of that source, too.

Not much of it, just a bit..

[ts]

Sure, copy the left channel over, but save the right channel, make it mono, and fold in a bit of that source, too.

Not much of it, just a bit..

Yea, that'll fix the board part, but how do I join the aud and board and what percentage of both should I use? I have two separate files. I set the 60D on 4 channel so I have channels 1 and 2 for aud and 3/4 for SBD.

[capnhook]

Sure, copy the left channel over, but save the right channel, make it mono, and fold in a bit of that source, too.

Not much of it, just a bit..

Yea, that'll fix the board part, but how do I join the aud and board and what percentage of both should I use? I have two separate files. I set the 60D on 4 channel so I have channels 1 and 2 for aud and 3/4 for SBD.

We need a AA user here for some help....sorry, I matrix in Audacity.

Stack the tracks, and use your ear to find the best blend.  Reduce the volume of each source, so you don't get "overs".  There is really no rule of thumb for what percentage of each source to use.

Experiment with different blends.  Your ears will find the sweet spot.

[Gutbucket]

Cap'n beat me to it while typing.. similar advice below:

how do I join the aud and board and what percentage of both should I use? I have two separate files. I set the 60D on 4 channel so I have channels 1 and 2 for aud and 3/4 for SBD.

Use the Force, young Luke. 

There is no set formula or percentage that will work everytime.  The best mix of the two can only be correctly determined by listening closely while adjusting.

It's been years since I've looked at Cool Edit Pro (predecessor to Audition), but generally you'll open a multitrack session, load the two stereo files to adjacent tracks, and go to the mixer screen to adjust the level faders and channel pans.  Set the faders so the AUD pair is playing with no gain change (fader at 0dB) and the SBD pair faders (or just the good channel of that pair, with it panned center) all the way down, fully attenuated.  Then slowly raise the level of the SBD using the fader while listening.  Play around with it, listen for a while once you settle on what you think sounds best before outputting the mix to a single 2-channel stereo file. 

You can also EQ the two sources separately if you want to.  A good start in playing around with that is to get each sounding as good as possible on it's own with the other muted.

You may need to drag the SBD pair slightly right along the time-line (delaying it slightly) so that it aligns properly in time with the AUD source.  That compensates for the longer amount of time it takes the sound to travel through the air to your AUD microphones compared to the closely positioned SBD microphones.  Listen to spoken voice announcements from the stage or sharp clean snare hit at the beginning or end of a song and adjust until there is no audible echo, doubling, or phasyness.  Sometimes you can zoom in on the waveform and look for two sharp peaks to align, but you still need to listen to make sure you got it right.

[ts]

I think I got it. Make sure both sources are edited prior to opening in multi track, figure out the best combination of the two and export to new stereo file. Maybe the timeline is OK since the aud source was fairly close to the stage?

[Gutbucket]

If the AUD mics were close to the stage, you may not need to shift time on the SBD source.  But you might as well slide it around a bit to get a feel for how to do it, what it sounds like when it's slightly off, and to if you can further improve it.

Not sure what you mean by both sources being edited prior to opening in muli track. I do most all editing in the equivalent of multi-track mode, mostly at the individual track or stereo channel pair level, maybe with some stuff going on in the 2-channel mix bus after those sources are mixed together prior to output.

You can edit the two sources separately as long as you are not doing anything which changes their overall run time or start times, which would screw up their sync.  I find it simplest and easiest to just do it all in the multi-track editor mode.

[Scooter123]

I'm an Adobe Audition user, Adobe Audition CC to be precise.  If you have any questions, PM me if you like.  I'm not terribly wild about the program, as I think other DAWs do a better job at multi-track mixing.  However, its chief advantage for me is the dual mode, wave form and multi-track modes.  In the wave mode, the user can modify the track destructively which is a major benefit for some initial processes, like time alignment, synching files and increasing gain. 

Gain Percentages and Panning Percentages--the endless question.  Do what sounds right. 

That said, I'd probably start with making each track a separate mono track and then mixing them with equal gain.  Then go up or down from there.  As far as pans are concerned, Audition has this clunky dial that is a PITA to us, but probably no hard pans.  I'd probably limit pans to 20-30% right or left. 

[jefflester]

As far as pans are concerned, Audition has this clunky dial that is a PITA to us, but probably no hard pans.  I'd probably limit pans to 20-30% right or left.

You don't have to use the dial, you can just enter a plus/minus number in the highlight area.

[Scooter123]

You don't have to use the dial, you can just enter a plus/minus number in the highlight area.[/quote]

Most DAW programs allow a wheel scroll to increase settings, like volume or pan.  Audition does not, which is clunky. 

[blg]

You don't have to use the dial, you can just enter a plus/minus number in the highlight area.

Most DAW programs allow a wheel scroll to increase settings, like volume or pan.  Audition does not, which is clunky.
[/quote]

I suppose it's whatever you are used to. I don't find it clunky at all, fwiw.

I've been using adobe audition or the previous version (cool edit pro) since about 2002.  No idea how many mixes i've done at this point, but probably a few hundred. Feel free to PM me and i'll try to help out if possible.

[stevetoney]

I use Audition V3.  Here's more or less my work flow for a four track...

- Master each stereo pair separately as you would normally in edit view.  Don't worry about multi tracking at this point.
- Once you're happy with each stereo pair, switch to multitrack view.
- Load both pairs into the multitrack view by dragging the files from the 'files' are over to the 'main' area.
- Zoom way in and make sure both pairs start in the multi track session at 00:00:000.
- Find a distinct percussive peak, a drum hit or something, in the recording and zoom way in on that. 
- Determine the time difference between the two pairs...one is usually lagging the other by some number of milliseconds.
- Go back to edit view and locate your cursor at the very beginning of one of the stereo pairs...before an music starts.
- In Edit view, move one track pair forward or the other back to make both pairs line up exactly.
- Go back into multi-track view, zoom in, and confirm that both stereo pairs are now lined up by zooming way in again.
- I usually have to repeat the above few steps a couple of times to get them to line up precisely.
- Once you're happy with the alignment, you're ready to start figuring out the mix you want between the two.
- On the multitrack view, you have a rudimentary mixer available to you.  Each stereo pair has three buttons labeled M, S, and R.  M means Mute, S means Solo, R means Arm For Recording. 
- There are also two dials available for each stereo pair.  These dials are located immediately below the three buttons.  The left hand dial is your volume control, the right hand dial is for panning.  Since you're mixing stereo pairs, leave all of the pan dials straight up so that '0' is indicated to the right of the dial. 
- Play around with the volume dials and use the M and S buttons to help you decide what mix between the two sounds best.
- Generally, if I have a good sounding AUD, I mix in alot less SBD...say 70/30.  The worst the AUD sounds, the higher percentage I make the SBD.  Your ears are the only judge at this point.
- Once I have a mix I'm happy with, on the menu at top, click edit.
- On the pulldown, find the selection 'Mixdown to a new file'
- Click 'Mixdown To a New File' and that brings up another pop up menu...select 'Master Output in Session (Stereo)'
- Boom!

[hoserama]

I use Audition V3.  Here's more or less my work flow for a four track...

- Master each stereo pair separately as you would normally in edit view.  Don't worry about multi tracking at this point.
- Once you're happy with each stereo pair, switch to multitrack view.
- Load both pairs into the multitrack view by dragging the files from the 'files' are over to the 'main' area.
- Zoom way in and make sure both pairs start in the multi track session at 00:00:000.
- Find a distinct percussive peak, a drum hit or something, in the recording and zoom way in on that. 
- Determine the time difference between the two pairs...one is usually lagging the other by some number of milliseconds.
- Go back to edit view and locate your cursor at the very beginning of one of the stereo pairs...before an music starts.
- In Edit view, move one track pair forward or the other back to make both pairs line up exactly.
- Go back into multi-track view, zoom in, and confirm that both stereo pairs are now lined up by zooming way in again.
- I usually have to repeat the above few steps a couple of times to get them to line up precisely.
- Once you're happy with the alignment, you're ready to start figuring out the mix you want between the two.
- On the multitrack view, you have a rudimentary mixer available to you.  Each stereo pair has three buttons labeled M, S, and R.  M means Mute, S means Solo, R means Arm For Recording. 
- There are also two dials available for each stereo pair.  These dials are located immediately below the three buttons.  The left hand dial is your volume control, the right hand dial is for panning.  Since you're mixing stereo pairs, leave all of the pan dials straight up so that '0' is indicated to the right of the dial. 
- Play around with the volume dials and use the M and S buttons to help you decide what mix between the two sounds best.
- Generally, if I have a good sounding AUD, I mix in alot less SBD...say 70/30.  The worst the AUD sounds, the higher percentage I make the SBD.  Your ears are the only judge at this point.
- Once I have a mix I'm happy with, on the menu at top, click edit.
- On the pulldown, find the selection 'Mixdown to a new file'
- Click 'Mixdown To a New File' and that brings up another pop up menu...select 'Master Output in Session (Stereo)'
- Boom!

Looks like you've got a sbd/aud to a four track recorder? Then yes, you wouldn't need to do any time alignment other than the initial offset. If running to different recorders, then better for full time alignment resample.

I would actually suggest doing the 'mastering' and such for each file within the multitrack. Sometimes in making a good mix, I end up making one track actually sound worse individually, but it pieces together significantly better. So if you're running effects in the multitrack while mixing, you can adjust the eq/comp/etc as part of the complete mix. As opposed to "lets get both recordings sounding best they can, then slap them together."

Probably not as big of a deal when working with two stereo pair, but a big piece if you're doing bigger multitracks. And if you need to do any destructive editing, then obviously do in wave editor.

[ts]

Did all editing of both sources in edit view first. Since both sources are from the same recorder and the aud source is only about ~30 feet from the stage, I made the first attempt with no time align. I now see that some time alignment will need to be done. It sounds very good with only a very slight echo. A friend that has done 4 track at this venue (Mexicali Live) remembers it being about 34 milliseconds between aud and board.

So back to AA 3.0 for some alignment. Time align is better in edit view or multitrack?

Thanks!

[bombdiggity]

^ You have to find the offset for time alignment in the multitrack view since that's the way you can view both sources at once.  I convert the time scale to samples for doing any time/phase alignment since that is an easy and appropriate scale to measure with (milliseconds at that level of difference is way too confusing to sort through).  After you have the alignment offset go to edit mode to move the relevant pair forward or back.  Moving the lagging one forward is probably the easier approach but either works.  Then recheck it in multitrack to be sure they're matched.