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Author Topic: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?  (Read 30799 times)

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Offline yltfan

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2015, 11:10:18 PM »
The other thing that I don't like about the M10 is the gain wheel, which I have accidentally spun more than once. I also prefer using SD cards over mini-SD. I prefer the R05. It also costs less.
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM140, AKG C414, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AT853 4.7mod
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2015, 11:47:05 PM »
I was removing the micro SD card from my tablet yesterday.  Sucker flew out and down the stairs, but still works.  They put a good spring in the microSD slot on my tablet.  I was just glad the card landed where I could find it again. 

I transfer files on the M10 using the USB connector and try not to mess with the card.  I like the thumbwheel gain control much better than the rocker button on the Dr2d.  Never had my hands on the R05 to comment on it. 




Offline earmonger

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2015, 01:47:39 AM »
No hold on the gain wheel....we've gone around and around on this. I think that between the guard on it and the relatively stiff response, you really have to work to mess it up unless you are wearing ultra tight jeans with the M10 in your pocket and dancing like nobody's watching.


Offline Argitoth

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 03:41:54 AM »
The other thing that I don't like about the M10 is the gain wheel, which I have accidentally spun more than once. I also prefer using SD cards over mini-SD. I prefer the R05. It also costs less.
Can you say whether r05 or the M10 has less noise since you've now owned both?

Spinning a wheel for gain, accident or not, it will be a breath of fresh air for me. I haven't done mobile recording for maybe over two years after my korg unit crapped out, it's been far too long.

Offline yltfan

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2015, 05:28:55 AM »
The other thing that I don't like about the M10 is the gain wheel, which I have accidentally spun more than once. I also prefer using SD cards over mini-SD. I prefer the R05. It also costs less.
Can you say whether r05 or the M10 has less noise since you've now owned both?

Spinning a wheel for gain, accident or not, it will be a breath of fresh air for me. I haven't done mobile recording for maybe over two years after my korg unit crapped out, it's been far too long.

Sorry, can't help you here. They both sound fine to me, but I only record louder stuff (while jumping around in my super tight jeans).
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM140, AKG C414, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AT853 4.7mod
Pre: V3, CA-9100
Recorders: Busman DR-680, iRivers, minidisc, jb3, and DAT

Dime torrents: http://www.dimeadozen.org/account-details.php?id=88009

Offline Argitoth

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2015, 10:06:26 PM »
I got a reply from Mr. Oade (www.oade.com):

Quote
The R05 has an EIN of -122dB, the PCM-M10 is -121db, both are bit bit noisy when used for soft sounds.

and

Quote
If you want low noise and HQ sound, the R26 or PCM-D50 are entry level. The Sony XLR to minijack adapters are pricey. The R26's built in mics sound better and offer both omnidirectional and cardioid mics. The PCM-D1 is amazing, if you can find one used.

Makes me want an R26. Anyone with an R26 want to chime in? I'm wondering if it would make me happier when I need to point the recorder at a sound to record it. I'd be getting 4 channels, with the possibility of 2 more with great convenience... oooo man that sounds awesome. It's like having 3 cameras all taking photos of the same thing from different angles, and you can mix/match to create the best picture from them. (As opposed to the inconvenience to having to setup multiple mics with stands or other method to get multichannel when you need to move around a lot.)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2015, 10:16:19 PM by Argitoth »

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2015, 10:28:54 PM »
The standard link for recorder noise figures is this -

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

When considering statements like that of Mr Oade, you have to be careful to consider the context.  Just about any reputable recorder can record and reproduce the full dynamic range of the real world, assuming that you are replaying the recording at an authentic level - in other words, so that whatever you hear is at the original volume.  That's important for audio fidelity, as frequency response of the human ear gets skewed if you play something too loud or too quietly (hence "loudness" controls on some amps).  I've demonstrated elsewhere (but I forget where...) that if you record something very loud - for instance, a lawnmower at the distance you normally operate it from - and then something very quiet (eg clock in a quiet room) without changing the recorder level setting, and you play it back in a normal listening environment, you will find that you'll probably want to turn down the mower.  And then the clock will be too quiet to hear.  Or if you have the clock at an authentic level - just audible - the mower will knock you off your chair.  So, an EIN of -120 coupled will be plenty in that context.

But if recording some kind of sound of nature - a sparrow 100 yards away say - and you want to hear that clearly on playback, so you turn it up to an artificially high level, you'll also be turning up the system noise too, and it will at some point start to show, even with a low noise recording system.

So, if you are replaying recordings at authentic levels, "real" levels, then ultra low noise is not likely to be requirement.  If adding gain on replay, then you'll need a lower noise system.

My only passing comment on the R26 is that it's a little long in the tooth compared with the Zoom H6 or H5 or Tascam DR-44.  Whether those more recent devices are in fact any better I'll leave others to advise.

Offline Argitoth

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2015, 10:40:46 PM »
Ozpeter, yes, I get what you are saying. Unfortunately, I will sometimes have to record quiet sounds and play them back at not-authentic levels. But I'm also good with noise reduction software. So the inspiration for getting an R26 would be more about the mics and the multichannel rather than the low noise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4TDtYem2U

looks like a piece of heaven.

Edit: Doing a forum search for R26 to see what peeps got to say. Concerned that if I went with R26 I wouldn't like the sound of the recordings from internal mic, been listening to examples, not impressed. If the M10 doesn't sound nice to me, it doesn't matter as much since it's only $200 and don't mind working on it in post, or simply using an external mic. Whenever I hear Sony PCM D100 or H6 examples, I like what I hear.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 12:15:18 AM by Argitoth »

Offline Argitoth

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2015, 01:43:02 AM »
Alright, I've made my decision... for the 2nd time.

as for the internal mics:
-Every time I hear a Zoom product internal mic recording, I like what I hear. Crisp and wide.... but noisy noisier.
-Most of the time M10 recordings sound like they lack detail (as if the sound is farther away or less direct). Also sounds less wide.
-D100 recordings sound great to me, wide, low noise, if only I had 1 grand...   :-\
-R26 recordings sound bad to me.
-R05 sounds more hissy/noisy every time, but a little better than M10 in terms of sound quality.

THEREFORE!

I choose M10 and may not be using the built in mics.

If only I could try these recorders first hand... but I can't, so I have to go with what I hear.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 07:01:15 PM by Argitoth »

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2015, 07:43:35 AM »
Quote
-Every time I hear a Zoom product internal mic recording, I like what I hear. Crisp and wide.... but noisy.

I'd take issue with that - I think it's time to repost my "out with the dogs" ambient recording from a few years back made on a Zoom H2N - but I'm heading for bed, so watch this space in about 12 hours time.  Might make you rethink the M10... :)

Offline robeti

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2015, 09:17:35 AM »
r-05 anytime.

Better control buttons than Sony.

Great sturdy recorder.
mics schoeps mk22/mk4/mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/o) | ca-11 c/o | ca-14 c
power ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox | schoeps cmbi (pair)
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Offline Argitoth

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2015, 09:32:42 AM »
Most important thing to me is low noise/value. M10 seems to be the best low noise for value. The only thing that would make me go with another unit is if it had equally low or lower noise and internal mics that I like the sound of. Otherwise I'd much rather use M10 with external mic than a slightly noisier recorder and internal mics. The only way I'd be convinced that M10 is not the right recorder is if someone could post comparisons of M10 with another recorder with the same sound source, otherwise I wouldn't be able to... compare, heh.

I get my M10 on the 6th or the 7th and then I will start using it at which point I probably won't be able to return it. So anyone who feels they must convince me not to get the M10, you have 3-5 days to post recordings!
(feel free to post recordings even if there's no comparison, I'll take a listen)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 09:40:41 AM by Argitoth »

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2015, 09:48:02 AM »


Whichever is better for recording quiet sounds, that's the one I want.

I know Zoom H6 is a totally different beast from the other two, but the reason I'm considering buying it is because I need a multichannel setup in the future. It's only a matter of whether I need to buy another device or not after choosing a handheld.

Yes - you may suggest an option not on the list. :)

Since you mentioned potential multi-channel needs - keep in mind the jury is still out on Tascams new DR-70D. 4 channels. Also has internal mics.

Offline dmonkey

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2015, 11:16:12 AM »
...I only record louder stuff (while jumping around in my super tight jeans).

I knew it!   ;D
MK4's, KM140's or MC930's >  Tinybox or Aerco MP-2 > R-09, M-10, R-44 (Oade CM) or MixPre-6

Offline Argitoth

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Re: Which mobile recorder? M10, H6, or R05?
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2015, 12:47:13 PM »
This topic has served its purpose, so I'm going to go a little off topic, I just had a thought (keep in mind I'm also a noob when it comes to recording gear).

If a microphone has a noise profile that is lower in the higher frequencies AND it also has a frequency response with a boost in the high frequencies... wouldn't that mean the noise profile (when subtraced/measured against its frequency response) would potentially have way less noise in the high frequency? So microphone response contributes to the effective noise level.

 

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