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Offline harmon712

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Syncing audio with video
« on: February 24, 2015, 10:11:50 PM »
This is my first time trying to sync audio with video using iMovie.  I think it looks like I did ok, here are links to the videos...

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01 Medicated Goo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y0kLUtHIh4
02 The Way The Homies Do https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QApt3KzSj8
03 Earth Moving https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USCkq0iJSx4
04 Feeling Good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_sgJVEDMv0
05 Paint The Town https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxxlOPfzGig
06 Haystack w/ Joe Marcinek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzJQtN93TNY
07 Ship Captain Crew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODU4ELBajE
08 Showdown w/ Stephan Cook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSGbjguoNb8
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2015, 12:39:03 PM »
Seems right on the first tune.  A little distance in the shot makes it infinitely easier (close ups are where it gets most sensitive).  The guitarist gets the Winwood style of playing better than most. 
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Offline guitard

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2015, 10:38:32 PM »
The drummer is the key!  It's really the easiest instrument to base a synch on. 
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 08:12:57 AM »
The drummer is the key!  It's really the easiest instrument to base a synch on.
agreed
If you can see AND hear snar hits, I find that's the best bet
If you are going to do lots of video stuff I highly recommend Final Cut Pro which has a built in multi cam/synch portion
Works awesome imo. There is plural eyes too but I don't know if it works with iMovie and isn't needed for fcp
If you really want to make life easy run an attenuator into the mic in on your r500(assuming the 620 has an out). Then the only thing you might have to do is adjust the ENTIRE audio track once for delay
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 08:17:05 AM by willndmb »
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Offline harmon712

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 01:47:04 AM »
Thank you, I've noticed with iMoive it's always going to be slightly off.  I'm going to put Final Cut Pro or at least some kind of video editing software that's better than iMovie on my list of things to buy.  For right now I'm ok with using what I have.

Thanks again.
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Offline guitard

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 12:20:33 PM »
The drummer is the key!  It's really the easiest instrument to base a synch on.
agreed

If you can see AND hear snar hits, I find that's the best bet

When watching the drummer, I can always tell right away if the audio is off (even by a tiny fraction of a second).  Sometimes, however, it can be kind of hard to tell if what you're hearing is slightly behind or slightly ahead of the drummer.  A work around I found for this is to play air drums while watching the drummer and make adjustments until your arm movements matches the drummer's arm movements.
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Offline keytohwy

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2015, 03:06:36 PM »
I've been using FCP for a number of years, and am stuck on FCP7 due to lack of time in investing in learning the new version.  So...I use Plural Eyes to handle a lot of the syncing.  Another note, if you shoot a video screen, or from a great distance, the audio will of course be out of sync. 

Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2015, 08:58:06 PM »
I've been using FCP for a number of years, and am stuck on FCP7 due to lack of time in investing in learning the new version.  So...I use Plural Eyes to handle a lot of the syncing.  Another note, if you shoot a video screen, or from a great distance, the audio will of course be out of sync.
imho fcpx blows 7 away in regard to most things
The only thing I have not figured out in x is how to do things like "zoom" a video in, say to crop out the VHS digi noise on the bottom of the screen. If I had to do it more I would figure it out
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Offline guitard

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2015, 07:54:57 AM »
The only thing I have not figured out in x is how to do things like "zoom" a video in, say to crop out the VHS digi noise on the bottom of the screen. If I had to do it more I would figure it out

In Sony Vegas Video, you use "Sony border" to do this.  Of course, they are two different programs, so I wouldn't expect it to be exactly the same.  But do a search within the functions called "border" and that might be the ticket.
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2015, 07:03:23 AM »
The only thing I have not figured out in x is how to do things like "zoom" a video in, say to crop out the VHS digi noise on the bottom of the screen. If I had to do it more I would figure it out

In Sony Vegas Video, you use "Sony border" to do this.  Of course, they are two different programs, so I wouldn't expect it to be exactly the same.  But do a search within the functions called "border" and that might be the ticket.
thanks for the tip
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
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Offline Ringside

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2015, 04:24:05 PM »
Even though I mainly do 1 cam shoots, I have the Pluraleyes plugin for Sony Vegas, and I usually run that first to get it close. Sometimes it's perfect, other times it's off a little. Occasionally it doesn't seem to be able to sync at all but with a little practice, it's an easy process manually.

Offline allan

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2015, 10:07:10 AM »
Folks that use iMovie love fcpx for the easy transition to it and added features. Fcp7 uses hate it and have moved to adobe premiere. You should watch a tutorial/intro video for several of the available programs to help you decide which is right for you.

Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 09:39:31 AM »
Folks that use iMovie love fcpx for the easy transition to it and added features. Fcp7 uses hate it and have moved to adobe premiere. You should watch a tutorial/intro video for several of the available programs to help you decide which is right for you.
pretty much

I hade fcp5 then 7
iMovie hd

Went to iMovie 9 and hated it
Got fcpx and forced myself to get the hang of lining things up and now like it
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
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Offline chicofishhead

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2015, 06:03:37 PM »
Folks that use iMovie love fcpx for the easy transition to it and added features. Fcp7 uses hate it and have moved to adobe premiere. You should watch a tutorial/intro video for several of the available programs to help you decide which is right for you.

Count me among the longtime Final Cut Pro users who changed to Adobe Premiere after trying FCPX.  Actually I have two operating systems on my mac, and switch I switch to the older one occasionally to do standard def stuff in FCP7.  I also use FCP7 for these high def commercials I make for car dealerships, just because I know the program so much better after fifteen years.  But the old OS can't handle the multi-cam high def music stuff, so I have to do that in Premiere.  But it's really frustrating because Premiere takes twice as many steps to do music edits as FCP.  I still like Final Cut a lot more.  I'd give just about anything for a FCP 8.

Offline robeti

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2015, 09:01:59 PM »
Even though I mainly do 1 cam shoots, I have the Pluraleyes plugin for Sony Vegas, and I usually run that first to get it close. Sometimes it's perfect, other times it's off a little. Occasionally it doesn't seem to be able to sync at all but with a little practice, it's an easy process manually.

That's what I do as well.
mics : nakamichi cm-300's (JB mod, cp1, cp2) , sp-cmc-4u (at-u853,4.7k mod) (c,h)
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 10:32:48 AM »
Is there a relatively simple tutorial/YT vid I could watch that can explain how to do this? I booted up iMovie and tried to sync some audio, but it didn't really get me where I needed to be...
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Offline DigiGal

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 01:25:23 PM »
Here's one way...


Three Clap Sync
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gVL-pMv1FM
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 10:18:30 PM »
Is there a relatively simple tutorial/YT vid I could watch that can explain how to do this? I booted up iMovie and tried to sync some audio, but it didn't really get me where I needed to be...
the three clap synch is helpful if you can and are planning ahead but if you are doing a concert or something that you have no control over the only real way is to try and find drum hits or something else to get it close and adjust from there.
The biggest issue you will find are different clocks on the video and audio recorders. That's why I try and run line out of my recorder directly into my camcorder if poss but since that's not always poss, you may find that after a period of time you need to split the audio and adjust it again.
The good news is that once you know how the records clocks line up you can do it faster and easier in the future
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Offline LIVEMUSIC752

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2016, 09:32:48 PM »
I've been using FCP for a number of years, and am stuck on FCP7 due to lack of time in investing in learning the new version.  So...I use Plural Eyes to handle a lot of the syncing.  Another note, if you shoot a video screen, or from a great distance, the audio will of course be out of sync.
how much delay would you need?

Offline guitard

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2016, 11:28:48 AM »
Another note, if you shoot a video screen, or from a great distance, the audio will of course be out of sync.
how much delay would you need?

It depends on the distance.  You just have to adjust it frame-by-frame until the video and audio are in sync.  The drummer is always a good point of reference.  Just adjust until the drummer's stick hitting the drum or symbol is in perfect sync with your audio.
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Offline tapeheadtoo

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2016, 08:32:04 AM »
I've been using FCP for a number of years, and am stuck on FCP7 due to lack of time in investing in learning the new version.  So...I use Plural Eyes to handle a lot of the syncing.  Another note, if you shoot a video screen, or from a great distance, the audio will of course be out of sync.
how much delay would you need?


The sound lag/delay is approximately 1ms/ft.  In the back row of the 200 level in an arena that comes out to 4-6 frames (at 30fps) depending on how stage is set up, catwalks etc.

I typically correct for delay in both stage shots and screen (often they will have different lags).

I started with iMovie then moved to FCE.  For the past several years I've been using FCPX.  Both transitions (from iMovie to FCE, then onto FCPX) were difficult for me.  After failing with printed books and online tutorials, both times I had to resort to taking One-On-One sessions at my local Apple Store.  After a few sessions of each though I was up and running.

I love FCPX now.  The audio/video sync feature alone has saved me countless hours of time.
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Offline guitard

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2016, 11:52:10 AM »
I typically correct for delay in both stage shots and screen (often they will have different lags).

Certain bands are really bad about out of sync screens - and Black Sabbath has to be the worst.  I was working on a recent show a few days ago and the screen is 7 frames behind the live action on stage.  So when the drummer has the drum sticks extended all the way in the air to prepare to come smashing down on the drums, you here the drum get hit before he even starts to lower his arms.  So if you have a shot that has both of a lot of screen shots along with a lot of close stage shots - you have to make a choice and sync to one of the other.  I usually choose to sync to the stage action.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards) & AT853 cards
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Offline tapeheadtoo

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2016, 12:58:02 PM »
So if you have a shot that has both of a lot of screen shots along with a lot of close stage shots - you have to make a choice and sync to one of the other.  I usually choose to sync to the stage action.

I sync to both separately.  First I'll sync to stage action.  Then I'll figure the lag between stage and screen, and offset all the screen portions accordingly.  It's a pain when there's lots of shifting from stage to screen but I do it because I can't stand any part out of sync.  If anything to me the screen being out of sync is worse because often those are close zoom-ins whereas from my typical seat location (far end of arena--20x zoom isn't even buying me full head to toe) the delay isn't as noticeable.
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Offline robeti

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2016, 03:11:26 PM »
So if you have a shot that has both of a lot of screen shots along with a lot of close stage shots - you have to make a choice and sync to one of the other.  I usually choose to sync to the stage action.

I sync to both separately.  First I'll sync to stage action.  Then I'll figure the lag between stage and screen, and offset all the screen portions accordingly.  It's a pain when there's lots of shifting from stage to screen but I do it because I can't stand any part out of sync.  If anything to me the screen being out of sync is worse because often those are close zoom-ins whereas from my typical seat location (far end of arena--20x zoom isn't even buying me full head to toe) the delay isn't as noticeable.

I do exactly the same for the same reasons
mics : nakamichi cm-300's (JB mod, cp1, cp2) , sp-cmc-4u (at-u853,4.7k mod) (c,h)
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video: Panasonic hdc-sd600, Sony hx9v

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Offline guitard

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2016, 07:14:36 PM »
So if you have a shot that has both of a lot of screen shots along with a lot of close stage shots - you have to make a choice and sync to one of the other.  I usually choose to sync to the stage action.

I sync to both separately.  First I'll sync to stage action.  Then I'll figure the lag between stage and screen, and offset all the screen portions accordingly.  It's a pain when there's lots of shifting from stage to screen but I do it because I can't stand any part out of sync.  If anything to me the screen being out of sync is worse because often those are close zoom-ins whereas from my typical seat location (far end of arena--20x zoom isn't even buying me full head to toe) the delay isn't as noticeable.

If I'm working with a full screen shot, then I do this.  But quite often a shot includes both stage and screen, which forces you to make a choice.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards) & AT853 cards
Pre: CA-9100
Deck: Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4k), Sony DSC HX50V
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2016, 08:13:29 PM »
So if you have a shot that has both of a lot of screen shots along with a lot of close stage shots - you have to make a choice and sync to one of the other.  I usually choose to sync to the stage action.

I sync to both separately.  First I'll sync to stage action.  Then I'll figure the lag between stage and screen, and offset all the screen portions accordingly.  It's a pain when there's lots of shifting from stage to screen but I do it because I can't stand any part out of sync.  If anything to me the screen being out of sync is worse because often those are close zoom-ins whereas from my typical seat location (far end of arena--20x zoom isn't even buying me full head to toe) the delay isn't as noticeable.

If I'm working with a full screen shot, then I do this.  But quite often a shot includes both stage and screen, which forces you to make a choice.
i hear ya, for me I usually do whichever is more prevalent, the stage or screen. That way if people do say it's off it is less time then it is on synch
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
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Offline splumer

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2017, 11:47:12 AM »
I'm trying to synch some video I shot with the audio I recorded separately of a Leftover Salmon show from last week. Someone yelled "woo!" right at the beginning, so I synched it up with that, and it looked pretty good, but by the end of the clip it was at least a second or two off. The clip is about 20 minutes long. I'm using Adobe Premiere. Are they not synched because of the different sampling rates of video vs. audio? I shot it on a Samsung Galaxy 6. It's not awesome video; I was doing the synching for fun more than anything. Any ideas?
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2017, 12:26:12 PM »
I'm trying to synch some video I shot with the audio I recorded separately of a Leftover Salmon show from last week. Someone yelled "woo!" right at the beginning, so I synched it up with that, and it looked pretty good, but by the end of the clip it was at least a second or two off. The clip is about 20 minutes long. I'm using Adobe Premiere. Are they not synched because of the different sampling rates of video vs. audio? I shot it on a Samsung Galaxy 6. It's not awesome video; I was doing the synching for fun more than anything. Any ideas?
imo synching from a vocal is harder then a drum hit.
Even that though, you can move a frame hear and there and still not be exact after some time due to different recording clocks on each device. (although sample rate can cause some issues since video likes 48 better I have found)
If you feel your original dubb mark is accurate, the only real thing you can do is "reset" it after a few songs and so on.

the only way to 100% not have drift is to record with the devices linked (which you can't do on a phone) or (in the case of a audio mix for example) have a multi channel device that records using the same clock
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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 08:41:27 PM »
the only way to 100% not have drift is to record with the devices linked (which you can't do on a phone) or (in the case of a audio mix for example) have a multi channel device that records using the same clock

With modern digital equipment, one hour video and audio recordings are normally exactly the same length; occasionally off by one or two 1/30th of a second video frames.  If it's off by a second or two, there's definitely something wrong.

The easy fix is simply to stretch or crunch the audio by the required length to make them both match.  I do all my editing in Sony Vegas Video, and it's really easy to do.  I don't know how it's done in Adobe Premier though.
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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 10:23:46 PM »
the only way to 100% not have drift is to record with the devices linked (which you can't do on a phone) or (in the case of a audio mix for example) have a multi channel device that records using the same clock

With modern digital equipment, one hour video and audio recordings are normally exactly the same length; occasionally off by one or two 1/30th of a second video frames.  If it's off by a second or two, there's definitely something wrong.

The easy fix is simply to stretch or crunch the audio by the required length to make them both match.  I do all my editing in Sony Vegas Video, and it's really easy to do.  I don't know how it's done in Adobe Premier though.
i tried this a couple times in FCP and could never figure it out, it always "distorted the audio" (for lack of a better description) so maybe I was not doing it right
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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 11:01:29 AM »
It's always better to time stretch your video rather than the audio. If you are doing more than one camera you can sometimes use cuts between shots to compensate for the time differences, rather than stretching or compressing the video. Like it was said above, stretching or compressing (in the sense of time) the audio often results in a distorted sound.
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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2017, 08:26:13 AM »
Like it was said above, stretching or compressing (in the sense of time) the audio often results in a distorted sound.

I've stretched or compressed audio at least a thousand times while syncing in with video and never have had a problem.  Not to mention, when you're dealing with old analog sources, quite often the audio doesn't run at the correct speed.

If stretching a two hour audio recording a fraction of a second distorts it - you're likely doing something wrong within the software program.
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Re: Syncing audio with video
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2017, 09:50:38 AM »
In many cases you'd have to correct both time **and** pitch. Depending on the source material, one algorithm might work better or worse than the other.
E.g. I found Elastique Pro to work better on droney or psychedelic music than the built-in timestretching algorithm of my DAW.

 

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