Topic: SP-CMC-8 + SP-SPSB-11 + EdirolR-09HR - Where Am I Going Wrong?

[lostockboy]

I often see tapers having used SP-CMC-8 + SP-SPSB-11 + EdirolR-09HR to record concerts which is a set up that I have but for whatever reason doesn't work for me due to distortion.  It's mainly the drums that cause the distortion on the recordings that I have made.  I know that the battery box is plugged into the line in input not the mic input so wondered if the settings on the back, especially Mic Gain make a difference or maybe Low Cut or Limiter.  Any advice would be welcome as anyone with the same set up will know that a few quid has been used on this gear   

[rhinowing]

change the battery in the bbox

[aaronji]

4.7k mod?  Can't recall if this is one of the models that needs it...

[lostockboy]

change the battery in the bbox

How do you change a new battery??

[rhinowing]

change the battery in the bbox

How do you change a new battery??

open up the box and put a fresh one in? unless you literally just put a new one in there

[lostockboy]

change the battery in the bbox

How do you change a new battery??

open up the box and put a fresh one in? unless you literally just put a new one in there

The times I have used it I've always put a new battery in it

[lostockboy]

4.7k mod?  Can't recall if this is one of the models that needs it...

I used the mics without a box when I first got them and again the recordings were distorted.  I'm assuming because there was no box involved that they go into the mic input and not the Line In input.  On another note, there are 2 matching mics connected to one input, will that make a difference?

[robertmode]

Hello,
For me 'line in' is too sensitive on r09hr, you should buy r05/r09/microtrack. 
Yours sincerely.
Robert

[lostockboy]

Hello,
For me 'line in' is  too sensitive on r09hr, you should buy r05/r09/microtrack. 
Yours sincerely.
Robert

I'd be quite happy to lay out more expense if I knew they would all work together.  A possibility is maybe I've seen r09 and not r09hr on other tapers recording equipment.  I'm assuming that the r05 and r09 are older models than the r09hr?

[robertmode]

r05/r09/microtrack will work for sure. 

r05 is the latest version.

Yours sincerely.
Robert

[pillowman]

4.7k mod?  Can't recall if this is one of the models that needs it...

these mics need the 4.7k mod !!!
here are some members on the board who can help with this, ...
--
pm

[aaronji]

^^^ I thought so; thanks!  Well, that may very well fix the problem.

[lostockboy]

^^^ I thought so; thanks!  Well, that may very well fix the problem.

So what would the 4.7kmod entail?

[aaronji]

There are lots of threads about, if you search it.  Here is a post describing it:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=94582.msg1259969#msg1259969...

[The Other Chris]

^^^ I thought so; thanks!  Well, that may very well fix the problem.

So what would the 4.7kmod entail?

Darktrain is the man for the job!    Does great work & at a great price.

[darktrain]

Yes, the At 853's and 933's will definitely distort in high SPL situations with or without a battery box without the 4.7k mod, the mics are meant to be run "3 wire" and when terminated to mini plug "2 wire" they are not the same, the 4.7k mod essentially for lack of better terms brings the specs back up to 3 wire(original specs). There are other threads with more detail but that's it in a nutshell.

[dabbler]

SP-CMC-8 are AT ES943, not 933.  I remember reading finding specs on the confusing AT site and finding them mostly identical except the AT ES943 has a smaller diameter body.

I seem to recall 853 and 933 having the same diameter, slightly larger than the ES943.

AT ES943 also comes with removable elements: cardioid, hypercardioid, and omnis.
Fwiw, I run:

1) SP-CMC-8 low-sensitivity mod from SP; cardioid or hypercardioid
2) SP-SPSB-10 (no rolloff)
3) Sony PCM-M10 and set my line-in somewhere around 6 or 7 for loud shows

In my experience, M10 and R-09 (not HR) line-in are similar and take middle-of-the-road input levels for loud shows.  Maybe the R-09HR is similar?  I've never used it.

I've also tried a few shows with the SP-SPSB-10 swapped out for a DIY 9V
battery pack made for DPA 4061:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=80917.0
and it seems to work alright; but nothing excessively loud, either.
9V batteries last much longer than the A23 12Vs.

[fmaderjr]

r05/r09/microtrack will work for sure. 

r05 is the latest version.

Yours sincerely.
Robert

Don't dump the R09HR thinking it will improve your recordings. The HR's line in is definitely not too sensitive and if I remember correctly it's specs are a bit less sensitive than the newer R05.

As pillowman stated, the lack of a 4.7k mod is almost certainly the reason for your lack of success.

[Humbug]

SP-CMC-8 are AT ES943, not 933.  I remember reading finding specs on the confusing AT site and finding them mostly identical except the AT ES943 has a smaller diameter body.

I seem to recall 853 and 933 having the same diameter, slightly larger than the ES943.

I'm not sure if that's completely right. I run a very old SP-CMC-8 from 1998 as my main stealth mics.

They are composed of ES933 bodies, adaptors and AT853 caps.

The only difference between the ES933 body and ES943 body (they are otherwise identical) is that the ES943 has a groove so you can use those plastic clips that SP sell, and that always break after a few months:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-MINI-CLIP

On the ES933, I use a short length of medical clear tubing (that SP may have provided) over the bodies, then some almost indestructable metal clips, these:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-LAV-CLIP

Hope this clarifies things, not that it's all that important 

[robertmode]

r05/r09/microtrack will work for sure. 

r05 is the latest version.

Yours sincerely.
Robert

Don't dump the R09HR thinking it will improve your recordings. The HR's line in is definitely not too sensitive and if I remember correctly it's specs are a bit less sensitive than the newer R05.

As pillowman stated, the lack of a 4.7k mod is almost certainly the reason for your lack of success.

R09 HR
Impédance d’entrée
Entrée micro : 30 kΩ
Entrée ligne : 15 kΩ

R05
Impédance d’entrée
Entrée micro (MIC GAIN H) : 7 kilo ohms
Entrée micro (MIC GAIN L) : 5 kilo ohms
Entrée ligne : 8 kilo ohms

For me R05  is better.

Yours sincerely.
Robert

[dabbler]

Humbug: probably SP changed specs over time.  My less-than-three-month-old SP-CMC-8 are definitely less than 1 cm and matches what the current SP site says:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8

943 (8.4mm diameter):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/4aeebb0c30d4f8c6/es943_c.pdf

933 (12.2mm diameter):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/81fdd280c2678f21/at933rxc.pdf

From what I remember, 8.4mm diameter is the slimmest cardioid I could find at the time

[Humbug]

Humbug: probably SP changed specs over time.  My less-than-three-month-old SP-CMC-8 are definitely less than 1 cm and matches what the current SP site says:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8

943 (8.4mm diameter):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/4aeebb0c30d4f8c6/es943_c.pdf

933 (12.2mm diameter):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/81fdd280c2678f21/at933rxc.pdf

From what I remember, 8.4mm diameter is the slimmest cardioid I could find at the time

If you look really carefully at the drawings for the AT933, and the caps listed, they are as I described above, same size bodies as the AT943, adaptor plus AT853 caps. I'll take a picture when I'm back in the UK if required..

[darktrain]

Humbug: probably SP changed specs over time.  My less-than-three-month-old SP-CMC-8 are definitely less than 1 cm and matches what the current SP site says:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-8

943 (8.4mm diameter):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/4aeebb0c30d4f8c6/es943_c.pdf

933 (12.2mm diameter):
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resource_library/literature/81fdd280c2678f21/at933rxc.pdf



From what I remember, 8.4mm diameter is the slimmest cardioid I could find at the time

If you look really carefully at the drawings for the AT933, and the caps listed, they are as I described above, same size bodies as the AT943, adaptor plus AT853 caps. I'll take a picture when I'm back in the UK if required..

933 and 943 use the same caps, there is also an adapter for the 933 to use the 853 caps

[fandelive]

For me 'line in' is too sensitive on r09hr

I tape shows with an edirol r09-hr since 2009. Line-in. Sound can sometimes reach ear-bleeding levels.
I got distortion on bass drum until I got my mics modded (4.7k). After that, never got any problem again.