Topic: Neumann's KM 100 series has been discontinued

[DSatz]

Hi. I don't know exactly when this happened, but the news seems worth mentioning: Now that the KM A and KM D series has been on the market for a while, Neumann has discontinued their KM 100 series.

The simpler, lower-cost KM 180 series (KM 183/184/185) will still be available.

[waltmon]

No way

[John Willett]

Hi. I don't know exactly when this happened, but the news seems worth mentioning: Now that the KM A and KM D series has been on the market for a while, Neumann has discontinued their KM 100 series.

The simpler, lower-cost KM 180 series (KM 183/184/185) will still be available.

Yes, it's been discontinued for quite a while now.  I saw it in their "discontinued products" section many months ago.

Replaced by the KM-A series, which shares capsules with the KM-D.

[Since85]

OK,

the obvious questions...

In terms of the analog version, any sound difference between the KM-A and KM100 series?

Any sound differences in the AK40 vs. the KK184 capsule? I assume the threads are different, so a KK184 capsule would not be compatible with an LC3 cable.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

So what does this mean for current users of the KM 100?  Is Neumann no longer producing capsules? No longer producing the active components?

[larrysellers]

On the website it says they make an adapter for the old caps to fit the new bodies.

https://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=km_a_description

Upon request, a mechanical adapter can be supplied to adapt microphone capsules of the KM 100 system (AK series) to the KM A and KM D output stages.

OK,

the obvious questions...

In terms of the analog version, any sound difference between the KM-A and KM100 series?

Any sound differences in the AK40 vs. the KK184 capsule? I assume the threads are different, so a KK184 capsule would not be compatible with an LC3 cable.

[DSatz]

Some answers:

> In terms of the analog version, any sound difference between the KM-A and KM100 series?

The transducers in the KM A and KM D series are exactly the same ones (plus one new model) used in the "active capsules" of the KM 100 series. And the acoustical design of the housings is also the same. So this is really a new series of microphone electronics and microphone accessories--different ways of using the existing capsules--arranged so that the same capsules can be used on either analog or digital amplifiers. The sound character isn't new or different.

But around 2000 or 2001, the electronics of the KM 180 series were upgraded to have 3 dB lower noise, while keeping the same sensitivity and overload levels (at an increase in supply current). The KM A's specifications match those of the upgraded version of the KM 180 series rather than those of the older KM 180 microphones or the KM 100 series (which was never similarly upgraded). So I would not suggest making stereo recordings with a pair in which one microphone is a KM 100 and one is a KM A. Still, sonically, they should be entirely equivalent.

> Any sound differences in the AK40 vs. the KK184 capsule? I assume the threads are different, so a KK184 capsule would not be compatible with an LC3 cable.

No sonic differences, but a great functional difference. You can unscrew the capsule head from a KM 184, but it can't be used on any KM 100-series amplifiers or accessories. The "AK ..." capsules of the KM 100 series all have a little barrel behind the capsule proper which contains the FET impedance converter stage of the amplifier (it's what makes them "active" capsules). But the KM 180 series capsule heads don't have that. So you're missing an essential part of the circuit.

Plus the acoustical reflector behind the capsule head is an essential element of what creates the pattern and frequency response of the capsule, and in the KM 180 series, that is a part of the body sleeve of the amplifier, not part of the capsule head. So it doesn't pay to take the capsule head off of a KM 180-series microphone.

> what does this mean for current users of the KM 100?  Is Neumann no longer producing capsules? No longer producing the active components?

Neumann normally keeps replacement capsules available for years after they discontinue any given model. In this case that shouldn't be too costly for them, since the actual transducers haven't changed--just the exterior fittings (and the barrel containing the FET and its bias resistors).

However, I wouldn't be surprised if some special, less frequently sold KM 100 accessories are allowed to run out without being resupplied. So if you're a user of the KM 100 series and you intend to dig in for the long haul, you might want to download the old catalog of KM 100-series accessories and shop around while you still can.

> Upon request, a mechanical adapter can be supplied to adapt microphone capsules of the KM 100 system (AK series) to the KM A and KM D output stages.

I wrote and asked about this adapter; evidently it's for real, and will be released shortly.

--best regards

[hi and lo]

> Upon request, a mechanical adapter can be supplied to adapt microphone capsules of the KM 100 system (AK series) to the KM A and KM D output stages.

I wrote and asked about this adapter; evidently it's for real, and will be released shortly.

--best regards

I'm quite curious about this adapter (I didn't even know it existed until yesterday) and where they have placed the FET in the KK capsules + LC 4 cable. My assumption, not owning or having access to a physical pair, was that Neumann had finally moved the FET circuit to the active cable and KM A/D bodies (instead of it being self-contained in the capsule head) now that Schoep's patent is long-since expired. It makes sense economically and given the much smaller phsyical size of the KK capsules, seems to make logical sense. If they're placing the FET inside the capsule head, they've done an excellent job shrinking the overall size of the capsule.

But now I'm second guessing that because if the FET circuit of the new line is contained in the LC 4 cable or microphone bodies, then I wouldn't think the older AK capsules would be capable at all, even with an adapter. Perhaps the adapter takes advantage of a secondary signal path that bypasses the FET in the body.

[DSatz]

Neumann didn't choose to license the Schoeps/Wuttke patent when they introduced the KM 100 series, but they did treat the patent in an honorable fashion once they became aware of it. And now they no longer have to use their "active capsule" workaround of this patent. So there is no FET in the capsule heads of the KM A and KM D series. Rather, the FET is in the amplifiers (the KM A or KM D "bodies") and in the front end of the extension accessories.

When the soon-to-be-introduced adapter is used, the FET in the AK -- capsule head is cascaded with the one in the KM A (or KM D) amplifier. I think there can be good reasons for doing that.

--best regards

[hi and lo]

Thank you, DSatz! That's very helpful. I appreciate the detailed answer on their design and it will probably convince me to purchase and make the KK 18x > LC 4 active rig setup I've been thinking about for over a year now.

I agree that the KM 100 design, while perhaps not as efficient as the existing patented design, was both elegant and honorable. The AK series have always been wonderful microphones and this design constraint was trivial in terms of performance. I can only imagine the manufacturing challenges it created, having to assemble the delicate FET circuit on the back side of every capsule. Any mistake would be quite costly! To say that the AK capsule is a marvel of modern engineering might be an understatement.

Unfortunately, this design constraint did make AK capsules considerably more expensive than other interchangeable capsule systems. Every time you wanted to add another pattern to your recording rig you had to pay a huge premium on each  capsule. While this might not have been a concern for Neumann's primary consumer base, concert tapers almost always own more capsules that bodies and as a result I know very few tapers that have owned multiple Neumann AK patterns.

When I look at the KK A (and KK D) series, it's obvious how much better they are in every way. It's a smaller physical design, which is important to many tapers, and every component is more affordable than (or on par with) the KM 100 series. I believe every KK capsule is at least 25% cheaper than its AK equivalent (when they were still offered) and the price of bodies or the LC active cable did not really go up at all. It's a win-win all around.

That said, the series has been out for several years now and there has been practically no adoption in our community. The KM 100 series is still the microphone most people know about and use and I only personally aware of one recordist here that owns a KM A rig. Maybe there's a few more, but it's not a lot.

Considering that active cable setups are all the rage, I think the KK A series has to be an ideal candidate. Two KK capsules, a pair of LC 4 cables, and Naiant PFAs terminations would make for an incredible setup at a ridiculously good price. There's not a lot of tapers that want to use bodies these days, but for those that do the KK A is of course available and competitively priced with just about any other manufacturer. I guess I will have to be the pioneer here.

[John Willett]

I have been using the KM-D series from 2006 - in fact I had to borrow a pre-production pair for the first recording session as they had not been officially released when I started.

I first used them for recording a 4 x CD set of piano recitals on four separate recording sessions (totalling 20 days) over a period of about 15 months.  I used the pre-production pair for the first session and my own for the rest.  We needed the gaps between sessions for the pianist to learn amd practice the next set of music.

I have a pair of KM-D with a pair of KK183 and added a pair of KK131 as soon as they came out.

[jbosco]

That said, the series has been out for several years now and there has been practically no adoption in our community. The KM 100 series is still the microphone most people know about and use and I only personally aware of one recordist here that owns a KM A rig. Maybe there's a few more, but it's not a lot.

Considering that active cable setups are all the rage, I think the KK A series has to be an ideal candidate. Two KK capsules, a pair of LC 4 cables, and Naiant PFAs terminations would make for an incredible setup at a ridiculously good price. There's not a lot of tapers that want to use bodies these days, but for those that do the KK A is of course available and competitively priced with just about any other manufacturer. I guess I will have to be the pioneer here.

When I recently just got back into taping I flirted with getting into the KM A line, but couldn't find any samples to listen to and spent months monitoring the TS yardsale, eBay and such for used equipment, I didn't see anything, occasionally a KM D would be out there, I went with the KM 184 instead.

[DSatz]

> I can only imagine the manufacturing challenges it created, having to assemble the delicate FET circuit on the back side of every capsule. Any mistake would be quite costly!

hi and lo, I think you may misunderstand the capsule head construction. In the KM 100 series, each passive capsule was bolted on to a "barrel" of identical diameter containing the FET and its bias resistors. Those "barrels" were manufacturered and tested separately from the capsules as such, and they were identical for all models of AK -- capsules.

The passive capsule only had to be physically attached to one of these "barrels," and the result was then a complete, finished AK -- capsule head.

Below is a photo that I marked up to show the two parts of an AK 40 capsule head as an example. The lower part is the "barrel" that I'm referring to. It can be removed from the AK 40 by grasping the C-clip on the contact side with a pair of needle-nose pliers, removing the clip and then separating the two parts, and as I said, the "barrel" was manufactured separately; no active circuitry is contained in the capsule that forms the top half of the assembly shown.

Does that make more sense now?

--best regards

[hi and lo]

hi and lo, I think you may misunderstand the capsule head construction.

Heh, I think that's an understatement, but I always enjoy learning new things.

The bolt-on barrel, it makes so much sense. It honestly never occurred to me that the entire bottom half could be removed via the retaining ring. Just to appease my curiosity, do you end up with the same part as a KM 18x capsule once the FET barrel is removed?

[DSatz]

No, the three different capsule heads for the KM 180 series, as well as the corresponding body sleeves, are each separate, unique parts that are not used by any other Neumann microphone models.

[0vu]

I currently have three KM A bodies with KK133/SBK capsules (some of the first made, supplied by John Willett in his day job - thanks John) and three KMA bodies with KK143 capsules plus three more KK143 capsules. But I have a lot more KM100 series bodies, capsules, and accessories, and will probably be looking to top up on bodies and accessories if there are any bargains to be had if any shops look to dispose of stock of the old system. The adapter rings to allow AK capsule to fit KM A bodies are good news. I'll be looking for some of those when they're available.

On the dimension discussion - the KM A body + capsule tends to be bigger (longer) than the equivalent KM100/AKxx combination due to the KM A body being a lot longer than the old KM100.