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Author Topic: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options  (Read 1351 times)

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Offline beenjammin

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DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« on: July 26, 2017, 03:23:39 PM »
I've looked around but can't quite find any thread dedicated to stereo options with DPA miniature mikes. I've a HUGE fan of the 4060s and wonder if others run any of the 40XX Cardioid versions in XY, ORTF or other stereo patterns?

To those who do, what mounting options are there? I'm thinking of a super small FX rig to run into a small recorder, possibly even the new d:vice iPhone pre/ad kit.

Has anyone run something like this handheld. It works brilliantly with the omni version, but perhaps wind and handling noise can't be overcome with the cardioid versions?


Offline Moke

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2017, 09:27:01 AM »
I don't like the DPA ORTF/XY mounts as they tear up the mic bodies something fierce. So I've always made my own mounts for them. This is what I built for my 4028 pair when I had them.

I made this stereo bar that I call the Axis-Reference Stereo Bar. I also made the mic clips from a really inexpensive pair of clips that are readily available that cost maybe $5 each.
The stereo bar is a piece of 1/8" thick x 1" wide aluminum from the hardware store.  Marks were made for the varying widths, scribe lines deeply scratched into the aluminum, and painted black. Then the axis-reference scribe lines were highlighted in white.
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Offline heathen

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2017, 10:38:37 AM »
That whole setup is awesome Moke!
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
Decks: Zoom F4 | Tascam DR-70D | Roland R-05

Offline beenjammin

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2017, 11:35:16 AM »
Moke, that does look very nice. But I'm looking to go even smaller with the miniature cardioids, ones like the 4099.

I see DPA sells them as stereo sets, and even includes some clamp for piano. But I wonder what kind of stereo options there are. Are these just on the fly spaced/coincident arrays?

For example, is there some easy solution to running the 4099 in XY in a super small rig?


Offline heathen

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2017, 11:43:37 AM »
Moke, that does look very nice. But I'm looking to go even smaller with the miniature cardioids, ones like the 4099.

I see DPA sells them as stereo sets, and even includes some clamp for piano. But I wonder what kind of stereo options there are. Are these just on the fly spaced/coincident arrays?

For example, is there some easy solution to running the 4099 in XY in a super small rig?
Maybe this will be helpful... https://www.shapeways.com/shops/srsrecordingservices?section=DPA&s=0
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | AT4031s | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
Decks: Zoom F4 | Tascam DR-70D | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2017, 01:00:13 PM »
I wonder what kind of stereo options there are. Are these just on the fly spaced/coincident arrays?

Yes.

The miniature DPA 4099 cardioids, designed for on-instrument mounting, generally have integral clips specific to the instrument type and flexible goosenecks and are intended to be clipped directly to the instrument.

The miniature 4098 supercardioids are designed as hanging choir mics or podium mics and have a short goose-neck section without a clip.  DPA sells those with stalks of various lengths + goose-necks at each end as well.   The goose-neck helps in setting up various stereo configs, and make it easy to tweak angles, but you'll need to DIY the mounting system depending on what you want to do.

Those 4098 and 4099 are the two DPA miniature cardioids you would probably be most interested in.  But keep in mind that they are intended for close-mounting and have a response tailored for that with reduced low frequency sensitivity to compensate for proximity effect, unlike the standard top quality DPA cardioids designed to be used a greater distance such as Moke's 4028s.  The other miniature DPA directionals such as the 4080 and 4088 are I think headset specific, not sure what their response is but I think they are specifically tailored for vocal use at the cheek.  Some digging at the DPA website should tell more.

Here's a TS thread on the 4098's I use- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=163927.msg2052993#msg2052993

Here's a photo of the 4098 in a Mid/Side setup with a Naiant  X-8S bi-directional, from another thread with all kinds of weird mic configs and mounting schemes- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96009.msg2181505#msg2181505

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Offline Moke

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2017, 01:26:00 PM »
Moke, that does look very nice. But I'm looking to go even smaller with the miniature cardioids, ones like the 4099.

I see DPA sells them as stereo sets, and even includes some clamp for piano. But I wonder what kind of stereo options there are. Are these just on the fly spaced/coincident arrays?

For example, is there some easy solution to running the 4099 in XY in a super small rig?



Yeah, sorry. I stepped away from DPA a few years ago, and haven't spent much time researching them since then. The mini-cards came out after my run with DPA (I still have my 4060/mma600 rig). I completely overlooked that series. In my mind, from that time, the compact series were the "mini's".
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 02:55:27 PM »
There is large, mini, and mini-mini!

Beenhammin, the 4098 and 4098 are basically extensions of the 4060 family- 5V powered microdot terminated mini-mini's.  Not inexpensive, but considerably less costly than their mics like Moke's

Mokes mic's are the top-quality standard series DPA general application mics.
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Offline beenjammin

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 07:35:32 PM »
There is large, mini, and mini-mini!

Beenhammin, the 4098 and 4098 are basically extensions of the 4060 family- 5V powered microdot terminated mini-mini's.  Not inexpensive, but considerably less costly than their mics like Moke's

Mokes mic's are the top-quality standard series DPA general application mics.

Thanks so much for the reply and link to the thread! Really helpful. It looks like the bass drop off past a meter will make this not work so well for me. Oh well.

The 4060 are so nice, I'll stick with them, I guess. I just figured that a cardioid mini rig would be nice.

I wonder if it's technically possible to make a 4098/99 like cardioid without the low end drop off.

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 11:44:17 PM »
I wonder if it's technically possible to make a 4098/99 like cardioid without the low end drop off.

Strauss Packet with a DPA 4060 low passed to pick up bass. :bigsmile:

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 11:54:02 PM »
Sometimes you have to do this even with a Schoeps mic:


Active Low-Pass Filter
LP 40 UColetteCCM
Overview | Application | Specifications | Graphics | Downloads
for adapting the signal from a pressure (omnidirectional) microphone to fill in the bass region of directional microphones (especially with the OCT system)
for phantom-powered microphones
 Active Low-Pass Filter LP 40 U The low-frequency response of any directional microphone is inherently inferior to that of omnidirectional (pressure) microphones. When using directional microphones, one can extend the low-frequency response by adding in signals from omnidirectional microphones that have been low-pass filtered with a device such as the LP 40.
 
Imprint | GTB | © SCHOEPS GmbH 2017

Offline beenjammin

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 09:57:51 AM »
Strauss Packet with a DPA 4060 low passed to pick up bass. :bigsmile:

This is a really interesting idea. I've never heard any Strauss Packet examples, but I've always found the configuration really appealing.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 11:18:27 AM by beenjammin »

Offline TSNéa

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: DPA Cardioid Miniature Stereo Options
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2017, 09:49:20 AM »
It looks like the bass drop off past a meter will make this not work so well for me. Oh well.

The 4060 are so nice, I'll stick with them, I guess. I just figured that a cardioid mini rig would be nice.

I wonder if it's technically possible to make a 4098/99 like cardioid without the low end drop off.

They could design a model with more low end response, but it's doubtful there is sufficient market for one.  As it is they work quite nicely in combination with 4060's / 4061's, and have sufficient if not proficient bass alone if EQ'd.. or even without EQ in overly heavy bass situations.  I find in multiple mic arrays the response ends up being a useful feature.

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