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Author Topic: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3  (Read 22668 times)

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2017, 06:35:32 PM »
Hopefully, there will be a hold function for the transport buttons in a future firmware update.  As for the knobs, Todd R's post here is pretty spot-on.  Once that transport hold update hits, it should be stealth-able if the 661 is no problem.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2017, 06:36:17 PM »

I brickwalled a little on a SBD feed to 5/6 on the maiden run.  I have not used 5/6 since so not sure if it was isolated to the SBD feed I got or 5/6 needs attenuation.

Thanks. Seems like this might be a thing.

I'm going to run the line in at 0db and control gain from the littlebox and see if I can get this working.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2017, 06:55:55 PM »
Maiden voyage tonight.  When I turned my unit on it DID NOT retain the settings from when I had turned it off after tests at home.  Channels were unlinked and I couldn't get it to start a recording for the life of me.

I powered it down, set preset to default, and re-followed Todd's instructions to get the settings back under control.

I also powered down the unit in between sets. When I turned it back on all tracks were disarmed and USB-c was switched from power only to audio.  I noticed the green battery meter was low.  I had to re-set USB-c to power only and then unplug and re-plug the power cable on the USB-A end to get the MP6 to see the external power again.  This may have been an oversight in my part after changing settings to default.

 It took a couple of songs before I noticed the tracks were disarmed.  The meters bump and the knob LEDs light up whether it is rolling or not.  The only indication a track is armed is the tiny track number lit red on the touchscreen unless you press a channel knob and check there.  The Wingman app saved my ass as that is where I noticed that they were disarmed.

Have you saved all your settings as a preset? I've done that with my own setup, and then I re-load that preset each time I power up. Always works.

My headphone preset (so as to hear the ISO tracks when the LR MIX is not being recorded) is always retained and never has to be re-selected.


BINGO, that's what I do! Reload the presets and its done in like 2 seconds :) Also, KEEP FRESH AA's INSIDE of your MP3/6! See below for reasons why!

I have found that in custom mode with basic gain and everything else advanced, it keeps the tracks armed when I power it on or change to that preset. When I switch to a preset with advanced mode or power on when the last state was in advanced mode, none of the channels are armed and the gain is reset back to 6, no matter where the gain was previously set. I'm not sure about the USB mode, why channels would be unlinked or not able to start a recording.

BINGO again :) I LEAVE MY MixPre6 set to CUSTOM MODE, with the Gain on BASIC, and I have had ZERO problems loading it and saving presets and stuff! Also, IMO, there is NO REASON to leave the MP6 in anything but Custom Mode with Gain@BASIC, because that's the only way I know of to have individual gain control for EVERY ISO Track ;) So I plan on NEVER taking my MP6 off of those settings!

And setup your main few taping scenarios in the presets and thank me later! Also, if you DO NOT have AA's inside of the Mp6, it won't save your settings and you'll have to keep re-setting them! Also, JUST LIKE THE Tascam DR-70D, if you are ONLY supplying USB-C Power and DO NOT have AA's inside, the MP6 WILL NOT SAVE YOUR LAST FILE! So if you happen to run out of battery or the USB-C power gets unplugged accidentally, then plan on LOSING your last recorded file! I thought a HQ company like SD would be able to save the last recorded file, regardless of where the power is coming from!

So IMO, even though the internal AA's are kinda useless for recording times, they ARE useful for saving your settings and presets, AND to make sure that your last recorded file IS SAVED! So even though the 4xAA Tray only gives me around 2 hours of recording, I ALWAYS plan on having some fresh AA's inside of my MP6! Also, if you have AA's inside, you can also HOT-SWAP USB-C Batteries ;) So there's 3 reasons to keep some fresh AA's inside right there ;)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2017, 07:04:33 PM »

I brickwalled a little on a SBD feed to 5/6 on the maiden run.  I have not used 5/6 since so not sure if it was isolated to the SBD feed I got or 5/6 needs attenuation.

Thanks. Seems like this might be a thing.

I'm going to run the line in at 0db and control gain from the littlebox and see if I can get this working.

Noah, I have some -12db Naiant MPD XLR Adapters/attenuators, JUST for something like that, or a hot PFA signal! For $15/each, it's worth throwing a couple in your bag for a rainy day ;)

http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/mpd-inline-attenuator-2/
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2017, 07:16:20 PM »
Anybody here got the Wingman app for Android working with their mixpre-6?

I tried it out yesterday evening and got a "Couldn't pair with xxxx Because of an incorrect PIN or Passkey" on a BQ Aquaris X5+ (Android Nougat 7.1.1).
Already tried to clear the app cache but no luck. (The device is detected but, apparently, the Bluetooth devices cannot be paired.)

Yeah, Ive used the Wingman App on my Google Pixel Android device with great success! I can even go upstairs in my house and see the levels bouncing nicely, until I go to the other end of the house upstairs! So I'd imagine that the MP6 will do even better in big, open venues & rooms :)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline edtyre

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2017, 07:45:06 PM »
Hopefully, there will be a hold function for the transport buttons in a future firmware update.  As for the knobs, Todd R's post here is pretty spot-on.  Once that transport hold update hits, it should be stealth-able if the 661 is no problem.
I have stealthed with it a few times already. Just start it up, there's no way you can push the on/off switch to off. If you have a good idea about where
you should be on your gain, keep it zipped up in a pack then start and stop with the phone app. If you know your gear this is so easy :-)
https://archive.org/details/jr2017-06-18.mk6.edtyre
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 07:47:52 PM by edtyre »
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2017, 08:06:12 PM »
Hopefully, there will be a hold function for the transport buttons in a future firmware update.  As for the knobs, Todd R's post here is pretty spot-on.  Once that transport hold update hits, it should be stealth-able if the 661 is no problem.
I have stealthed with it a few times already. Just start it up, there's no way you can push the on/off switch to off. If you have a good idea about where
you should be on your gain, keep it zipped up in a pack then start and stop with the phone app. If you know your gear this is so easy :-)
https://archive.org/details/jr2017-06-18.mk6.edtyre


Exactly! And I think a HOLD function is needed as well! Or at least having to push STOP x2, instead of just once, to actually stop the recording! Anything that makes it not possible to accidentally hit stop to ruin your recording :)

And all of these new MixPre-6 recordings sound awesome so far! every mic combo Ive heard with it sounds really nice and with super low noise! Has a great dynamic bandwith and sounds really open and big IMO!

Keep em coming yinz guys! I don't know if I'll hit any shows with mine before Phish next month or not :( Anyone have any Chicago 7/17 or Dayton 7/18, Pittsburgh7/19 tapers or pavilion tix, or anyone who can help me get my gear into the OTS or FOB, please get at me 8)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2017, 08:25:41 PM »

I brickwalled a little on a SBD feed to 5/6 on the maiden run.  I have not used 5/6 since so not sure if it was isolated to the SBD feed I got or 5/6 needs attenuation.

Thanks. Seems like this might be a thing.

I'm going to run the line in at 0db and control gain from the littlebox and see if I can get this working.

Noah, I have some -12db Naiant MPD XLR Adapters/attenuators, JUST for something like that, or a hot PFA signal! For $15/each, it's worth throwing a couple in your bag for a rainy day ;)

http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/inline-devices/mpd-inline-attenuator-2/

Nice. But I'm going rca or 1/8th inch from the littlebox to 1/8th in hnon the mixpre6.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline celticrogues

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2017, 08:41:41 PM »
And setup your main few taping scenarios in the presets and thank me later! Also, if you DO NOT have AA's inside of the Mp6, it won't save your settings and you'll have to keep re-setting them! Also, JUST LIKE THE Tascam DR-70D, if you are ONLY supplying USB-C Power and DO NOT have AA's inside, the MP6 WILL NOT SAVE YOUR LAST FILE! So if you happen to run out of battery or the USB-C power gets unplugged accidentally, then plan on LOSING your last recorded file! I thought a HQ company like SD would be able to save the last recorded file, regardless of where the power is coming from!

In the current firmware, if the MixPre loses power during recording, the last file will not be automatically closed, and thus will not be readable by a computer or another device. However once you insert new batteries and power the unit up again, the MixPre will then go ahead and close that last file so it will be readable. No information is lost as long as you power up the MixPre and let it close the file. I've heard that this will be fixed in the next firmware update so files are closed automatically.

-Mike
Michael Fowler
www.mobilemikesny.com

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2017, 12:28:36 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the ...

I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?


I think we can probably figure out what happened here by reviewing the specification sheets.

The MixPre-6 has a Maximum Input (Clipping) Level of +10dB on the aux 5-6 line inputs. That's not very good... actually, I'd call it downright lousy for a "professional" line input. That said, it is an 3.5mm TRS input, so I'm not entirely surprised by this spec.

Anecdotally, +10dB maximum input is on-par with the original R-09. That unit overloaded easily and many recordings were ruined. A hot soundboard or pres with fixed gain were a nightmare.

Better recorders such as the M10, D100, R-09HR and R-05, the 7xx series, etc. all have maximum input clipping levels around +24 to +27dB, give or take, and much harder to overload.

If your rig's output at minimum gain is too hot at a loud show, attenuators cables are needed. Figuring out you need them on-the-fly is tough; monitoring the output with headphones can work, assuming it's post A/D. Sluggish meters can also offer and indication of digital A/D clipping, depending on the unit.

Instinctively, I wouldn't think a TB at zero gain would clip, but it you're positive all settings were correct then I would say it's the logical explanation. +10dB max input just isn't very good for hot condenser mics recording amplified music.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 01:13:26 AM by hi and lo »
Friends don't let friends buy tube mics...

Mics: Schoeps MK21 / MK22 / MK4 / MK4V / MK41V / MK41 / MK5; Neumann SKM140; AKG 480/CK61; MBHO 603/KA200N / DPA 4061 / Dynamic Audio Binaurals
Pres & A/Ds: E.A.A. PSP-2 (2x) / Aeta PSP-3 / Sonosax SX-M2 (2x) / Grace V3 / Naiant Tinybox v2.x (Reutelhuber) / Nbox+ / AD2k+ / SBM-1 (2x)
Recorders: 744T / R-44 / PCM-M10 (2x)

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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2017, 01:27:55 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the ...

I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?


I think we can probably figure out what happened here by reviewing the specification sheets.

The MixPre-6 has a Maximum Input (Clipping) Level of +10dB on the aux 5-6 line inputs. That's not very good... actually, I'd call it downright lousy for a "professional" line input. That said, it is an 3.5mm TRS input, so I'm not entirely surprised by this spec.

Anecdotally, +10dB maximum input is on-par with the original R-09. That unit overloaded easily and many recordings were ruined. A hot soundboard or pres with fixed gain were a nightmare.

Better recorders such as the M10, D100, R-09HR and R-05, the 7xx series, etc. all have maximum input clipping levels around +24 to +27dB, give or take, and much harder to overload.

If your rig's output at minimum gain is too hot at a loud show, attenuators cables are needed. Figuring out you need them on-the-fly is tough; monitoring the output with headphones can work, assuming it's post A/D. Sluggish meters can also offer and indication of digital A/D clipping, depending on the unit.

Instinctively, I wouldn't think a TB at zero gain would clip, but it you're positive all settings were correct then I would say it's the logical explanation. +10dB max input just isn't very good for hot condenser mics recording amplified music.

This was precisely my fear. Thanks for chiming in everyone, it's such a pleasure to live here in the best little corner of the internet. I knew the tapers would feel my pain.

I suppose something like this could live in my bag for loud shows or hot sbd patches: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/971344-REG/microphone_madness_mm_at_1_attenuator_cable_13.html

I wonder if the input is harder to brickwall using 0db gain on the mp6 and using the variable gain on the littlebox. It would make sense that the headroom goes down.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 01:45:57 AM by noahbickart »
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline hipporu

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2017, 06:30:53 AM »
Amazing find!

Anyone else notice the following quote etched to the PCB? (Maybe only on the prototype?!)

"Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere off in space, because it's bugger all down here on earth."
SD funny guys. I love them! ))
Line Audio CM3 OM1, MKH 416, MKH 406, Ferrograph (Reslo RBL), ECM-737, ECM-959, AT Pro 45, AT Pro 24
SD MixPre-6, SD MixPre-D, Dcode PS-T, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, Broadcast Tools ADC-1,
Sound Professionals SP-Preamp, Church Audio ST-20A,
Marantz PMD620, Sony TC-D5 ProII

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2017, 10:23:33 AM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the ...

I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?


I think we can probably figure out what happened here by reviewing the specification sheets.

The MixPre-6 has a Maximum Input (Clipping) Level of +10dB on the aux 5-6 line inputs. That's not very good... actually, I'd call it downright lousy for a "professional" line input. That said, it is an 3.5mm TRS input, so I'm not entirely surprised by this spec.

Anecdotally, +10dB maximum input is on-par with the original R-09. That unit overloaded easily and many recordings were ruined. A hot soundboard or pres with fixed gain were a nightmare.

Better recorders such as the M10, D100, R-09HR and R-05, the 7xx series, etc. all have maximum input clipping levels around +24 to +27dB, give or take, and much harder to overload.

If your rig's output at minimum gain is too hot at a loud show, attenuators cables are needed. Figuring out you need them on-the-fly is tough; monitoring the output with headphones can work, assuming it's post A/D. Sluggish meters can also offer and indication of digital A/D clipping, depending on the unit.

Instinctively, I wouldn't think a TB at zero gain would clip, but it you're positive all settings were correct then I would say it's the logical explanation. +10dB max input just isn't very good for hot condenser mics recording amplified music.

This was precisely my fear. Thanks for chiming in everyone, it's such a pleasure to live here in the best little corner of the internet. I knew the tapers would feel my pain.

I suppose something like this could live in my bag for loud shows or hot sbd patches: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/971344-REG/microphone_madness_mm_at_1_attenuator_cable_13.html

I wonder if the input is harder to brickwall using 0db gain on the mp6 and using the variable gain on the littlebox. It would make sense that the headroom goes down.

All this makes me wonder...

I had no problems running the USB Pre2 into 5/6 as stated in my post above, BUT, I turned off the LR Mix track which pulls in the flaw that causes the recording to be artificially low. I did this knowingly and partly to see how well it would respond being boosted in post, but perhaps that is why my 5/6 did not brickwall or even come close to it. It sounds really good too, but of course my intention was based on the assumption 5/6 would best be served with a good preamp going in.

My point is that if this is the case, it would seem logical that firmware changes could make 5/6 much less sensitive at the low end.

Right now with all the bugs and tweaks needed, it really is hard to make final determinations on the best way to use the deck. I have no doubt that the bugs will be fixed, but until then, I will remain flexible in my set up and use.
Support Live Music: Tape A Show Today!
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2017, 12:34:49 PM »
Someone please correct me if I am wrong. With kcy nbobs I can run PFAs into the mic inputs. But if I want to avoid that bulk and power the Schoeps by IPA or Nbox, I run the risk of clipping the 1/8 line input due to the low max input. So I'd need to get a 1/8 to dual xlr or xlr to dual xlr cable?
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline willndmb

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 3
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2017, 01:07:33 PM »
I wonder if people on this thread might be able to help, because my issue involves channels 5 and 6 on the ...

I've never had a problem feeding a m10 from the littlebox, but I admit to never having used it with any other recorder.

How might I prevent this in the future? It just seems so odd that the ad on the Mixpre6 would clip given that the littlebox was giving 0 gain! How could it not be possible to use this my kcy littlebox to use channels 5+6 of the Mixpre6?


I think we can probably figure out what happened here by reviewing the specification sheets.

The MixPre-6 has a Maximum Input (Clipping) Level of +10dB on the aux 5-6 line inputs. That's not very good... actually, I'd call it downright lousy for a "professional" line input. That said, it is an 3.5mm TRS input, so I'm not entirely surprised by this spec.

Anecdotally, +10dB maximum input is on-par with the original R-09. That unit overloaded easily and many recordings were ruined. A hot soundboard or pres with fixed gain were a nightmare.

Better recorders such as the M10, D100, R-09HR and R-05, the 7xx series, etc. all have maximum input clipping levels around +24 to +27dB, give or take, and much harder to overload.

If your rig's output at minimum gain is too hot at a loud show, attenuators cables are needed. Figuring out you need them on-the-fly is tough; monitoring the output with headphones can work, assuming it's post A/D. Sluggish meters can also offer and indication of digital A/D clipping, depending on the unit.

Instinctively, I wouldn't think a TB at zero gain would clip, but it you're positive all settings were correct then I would say it's the logical explanation. +10dB max input just isn't very good for hot condenser mics recording amplified music.

This was precisely my fear. Thanks for chiming in everyone, it's such a pleasure to live here in the best little corner of the internet. I knew the tapers would feel my pain.

I suppose something like this could live in my bag for loud shows or hot sbd patches: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/971344-REG/microphone_madness_mm_at_1_attenuator_cable_13.html

I wonder if the input is harder to brickwall using 0db gain on the mp6 and using the variable gain on the littlebox. It would make sense that the headroom goes down.
i have that cable (-20db) and used it a lot from my LB or m10 out into my camcorder mic in with good results
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

 

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