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Author Topic: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats  (Read 7667 times)

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Offline furburger

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2017, 11:42:01 AM »
Not everyone has an ear for hi fidelity

That. 

And just about anyone rationalizes/justifies what they use as optimal because that's human nature.

let me bring datfly into the equation.

while Mike and I never saw eye to eye in the 90's, he ***is*** a taper that knows how to use a mic stand and obtain optimal results (always thought his tapes had much more depth and feel than Scott Weber's (Spider-Web) sterile Crowes stack tapes.....the irony is, Mike recorded the Crowes in '96 (for example) in the exact same fashion as Scott


NOW, when you see Mike's lineage, you see, why, what is that? fancy-schmancy mics ***used in conjunction with the DR-2D internals***???


why, yes, I fucking think that is what I see:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=597089

Source: Schoeps MK41 - Nbob Actives - Naiant Tinybox Version 2 - Tascam DR-2d Line In + Internal Mics (24-48)


now WHY would an experienced 25-year mic-stand taper, a guy with just as many if not more excellent captures as several of you combined, do such an inane thing?





prolly because I speak the unfettered truth about what I am saying (though he came to that conclusion all on his own)



that's why it's so hard to buy into what many of you here are saying....because I *hear* the internals alone do great work.


that you folks can't is on you...
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2017, 12:01:59 PM »

I grow weed and would rather spend my money on flying hotties up from the States (one is arriving from Indiana this week).

because I'm good looking and chicks dig me.

your recordings are not "sweet to the ears", whoever told you that is most definitely a fluffer.


Ben Harper, other than the 'geese' for 20 minutes of the quieter songs and the dude I almost knocked out, is absolutely sublime. right up there with my best.

even though Mooses Tooth *totally* changed their configuration

put 1400 miles on a rental car in under 72 hours, and blew a few hundred along the way.

have ***FIVE*** more taping trips planned before the end of Sept, that will cost $8-10K between plane tickets, show tickets, car rentals, food and games (I have countless friends nationwide, so places to stay for most of it saves money there)

once the hippy lettuce farm gets up and running (we're legal up here), pretty sure I'll be making more in 3 months than you make in a year.


and I still won't buy overpriced, overrated microphones.

I ***get it***, you're one of these cornholes:

#anditSHOWS

Really, can't wait to hear your Ben recording, I'd bet one of my investment accounts that my recordings will smoke your internal mic trash, especially if its one of your best. 

I can guarantee your income, like your recordings are inferior.  Are you willing to put up or shut up? 

(Account Value $919,609.34 Cash & Cash Invest. $21,572.97 Market Value $898,036.37 Day Change1 +$1,910.04 (0.21%) Open Day Change Details Cost Basis $452,618.82 Gain/Loss3 +$447,690.41 (98.91%)   

Name the amounts you are willing to wager since you make more than me selling grass than I make consulting and trading stocks?  Or lets make the bet, my gear versus yours.  Independent poll on here which raw recording sounds better, .  Come on big boy, you willing to put your money where your mouth is?   I am.   :bigsmile:   (Waiting on your excuse why you can't tick tock tick tock)

« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:35:23 PM by Brian Skalinder »

Offline furburger

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2017, 12:26:16 PM »

I grow weed and would rather spend my money on flying hotties up from the States (one is arriving from Indiana this week).

because I'm good looking and chicks dig me.

your recordings are not "sweet to the ears", whoever told you that is most definitely a fluffer.


Ben Harper, other than the 'geese' for 20 minutes of the quieter songs and the dude I almost knocked out, is absolutely sublime. right up there with my best.

even though Mooses Tooth *totally* changed their configuration

put 1400 miles on a rental car in under 72 hours, and blew a few hundred along the way.

have ***FIVE*** more taping trips planned before the end of Sept, that will cost $8-10K between plane tickets, show tickets, car rentals, food and games (I have countless friends nationwide, so places to stay for most of it saves money there)

once the hippy lettuce farm gets up and running (we're legal up here), pretty sure I'll be making more in 3 months than you make in a year.


and I still won't buy overpriced, overrated microphones.

I ***get it***, you're one of these cornholes:

#anditSHOWS

Really, can't wait to hear your Ben recording, I'd bet one of my investment accounts that my recordings will smoke your internal mic trash, especially if its one of your best. 

I can guarantee your income, like your recordings are inferior.  Are you willing to put up or shut up? 

(Account Value $919,609.34 Cash & Cash Invest. $21,572.97 Market Value $898,036.37 Day Change1 +$1,910.04 (0.21%) Open Day Change Details Cost Basis $452,618.82 Gain/Loss3 +$447,690.41 (98.91%)   

Name the amounts you are willing to wager since you make more than me selling grass than I make consulting and trading stocks?  Or lets make the bet, my gear versus yours.  Independent poll on here which raw recording sounds better, .  Come on big boy, you willing to put your money where your mouth is?   I am.   :bigsmile:   (Waiting on your excuse why you can't tick tock tick tock)


300 315 HPS lights and a few hundred 1000w LEDS with only one other partner and a monthly harvest schedule....I stand by what I'm saying. (not to mention my job is real work vs. paper pushing)

then there's the bubble hash made from the trim, sold at a premium.

THEN there's the coconut oil made from the post-hash waste that helps so many sick people in this town with numerous ailments (anxiety, insomnia, menstrual cramps, cancer nausea/appetite, lupus, MS.......... I could go on and on) that I sell at a loss to help others. (as that's my nature). I've been told by many that it's the most effective (strongest) they've used other than pure oil.

if I could figure out a use for the stems (working on a tea), nothing but the roots would be wasted.

throw in that I've bred my own and many people want what I breed....

basically, my everyday life ***is a vacation***, and when I go taping, that's like "work".


the raw recording is less than 5 minutes from being done...I mean it is done:

Download link
https://we.tl/eKlmn3vcjq
1 file
DR0000_0035.wav
Message
Ben Harper & The Innocent Criminals - July 24, 2017 - Moose's Tooth parking lot - Anchorage AK............. Sonics (middle position lo-cut)/Tascam, taped approx 30ft. from the right stack

you said Sonics and internals are the same, so here ya go.


the bottom line is that it's kinda looking like you're old and spent, and that your ship has sailed/time has passed you by there Mr. "Father Of The Year".

you should focus on your kid vs. chasing dollars and spent musicians.

and it shows.




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people who are fans of the music, they LOVE what I document and capture...people who are fans of themselves....not so much.

Offline furburger

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2017, 01:29:17 PM »
one last simple point to drive home where I'm coming from (then it's pretty much all been said)


didn't leave the state in '14 (had a lot on my plate).

went to 22 shows.

of those 22 shows, I only paid to go to 3 of them.


why?

because the artists, after seeing (I film with 4 cameras at once as well as up-to 4 audio decks) and hearing my work, not only allowed me permission to do my thing, but guest-listed myself, +2 (at my request), in exchange for the footage/audio.


this begs 2 simple questions:

1. is a taper going to give more weight to the opinion of a bunch of bitter, old "know it alls" whose arguments really have no substance or merit, or to the opinion of the artists themselves?

2. and *if* my stuff was really as horrible as many here allege, then why would those bands do such a thing, that being guestlist me plus 2?



an .864 percentage when asking for artists to compensate me for my skills AND allow me to bring friendS for free....




juss a lil' #FoodForThought
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Offline furburger

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2017, 01:30:17 PM »
where did daspy go?

this makes me sad.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2017, 01:57:05 PM »
Some of us actually work for a living furby.  Best part about my job is I am doing something valuable, not pushing paper as you seem to think.  Since you are computer illiterate and can't even manage to upload your shows it would be hard for you to understand what I do.  But then, you seem to know everything so just waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is instead of your nonsense deflections.  Talk is just that, talk.  All you do.

I will give you credit, your recording isn't terrible.  Not something I'd listen to beyond a sample since there are much better recordings of Ben to listen to. 

Here is my Ben from the Bottlerock Festival.  I doubt you will download it https://we.tl/hnxhnrM8h9  since you never bother to listen to anything good. 

Offline furburger

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2017, 02:36:38 PM »
Some of us actually work for a living furby.  Best part about my job is I am doing something valuable, not pushing paper as you seem to think.  Since you are computer illiterate and can't even manage to upload your shows it would be hard for you to understand what I do.  But then, you seem to know everything so just waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is instead of your nonsense deflections.  Talk is just that, talk.  All you do.

I will give you credit, your recording isn't terrible.  Not something I'd listen to beyond a sample since there are much better recordings of Ben to listen to. 

Here is my Ben from the Bottlerock Festival.  I doubt you will download it https://we.tl/hnxhnrM8h9  since you never bother to listen to anything good.

coming from "Father Of The Year", I'll take that as a win.

your son would probably side with me as well.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2017, 03:47:14 PM »
Some of us actually work for a living furby.  Best part about my job is I am doing something valuable, not pushing paper as you seem to think.  Since you are computer illiterate and can't even manage to upload your shows it would be hard for you to understand what I do.  But then, you seem to know everything so just waiting for you to put your money where your mouth is instead of your nonsense deflections.  Talk is just that, talk.  All you do.

I will give you credit, your recording isn't terrible.  Not something I'd listen to beyond a sample since there are much better recordings of Ben to listen to. 

Here is my Ben from the Bottlerock Festival.  I doubt you will download it https://we.tl/hnxhnrM8h9  since you never bother to listen to anything good.

coming from "Father Of The Year", I'll take that as a win.

your son would probably side with me as well.

Doubt that,  he has little tolerance for fools.    Then again, you'd know nothing about that, just like most other topics. 

I said it wasn't terrible, I DID NOT say it was a good recording and if that truly is your best work then I'd say you have a lot of work to do to perfect your craft.

Offline furburger

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2017, 10:07:07 PM »

coming from "Father Of The Year", I'll take that as a win.

your son would probably side with me as well.

you're right,  he has little tolerance for fools like me.   

fixed that for you.

that you had to send him away (probably more than once) pretty much confirms this.



I said it wasn't terrible, I DID NOT say it was a good recording and if that truly is your best work then I'd say you have a lot of work to do to perfect your craft.


all it needs is a hard filter at 98hz (-12dB), and some feathering around that, (from 400hz to the right, it's flawless) and it'sa gonna sound ballsdeep amazing.  (aka "amazeballsdeep")

the overall sound of mine at the 1hr15m mark is sublime, and truly puts yours to shame, which leads into.....

80% of raw masters have flaws, including yours

where yours is flawed (not that you'll take any of this to heart):

---63 and 98 hz are jumping up to +10dB, creating a muddly (sic) low end that doesn't "breathe" or "throb correctly" (this will be fixed on my recording with the simple filter on 98hz, perhaps Ben's soundman abuses this frequency like PJ's abuses 250hz...Matt's snare and certain toms do the exact same thing. for it being an outdoor show, not an amphitheater, a muddy low end is rather odd. the bass on mine has much more throb and texture.


---625hz is peaking to the point of distortion (jumping up to +10/+12 dB, that IS the mud frequency, and also the lower register of his vox. every time he screams, it peaks and sounds burpy.  not appealing at all.  your fancy mic are doing a horrible repro (sic) on his voice. he's almost god-like on mine.


---your high end past 2.5 rarely jumps above -6dB, other than 6.3 hz which occasionally tickles 0dB. there is NO brightness on the high end. mine is much brighter, and overall has ***much more clarity***

also, overall it sounds *very* compressed. it doesn't "breathe" on the high end either (bass breathes into your chest (you 'feel' it), mids and trebles breathe in your earholes (you 'hear' it).

this shit is gonna be a cakewalk (and that's just on a cursory listen)


I have one bad frequency, that being 98hz. that's it, other than that, the music sounds perfect (can't control the crowd)

should be up in the next few days, if not sooner (tonight, perhaps)


get your awesome excuses ready.  (it didn't even get 100 snatches). I can virtually guarantee that mine will do better.  (quick, send out PM's to all 2 of your friends here to tell them not to download it, and I'll post for my friends as well to do the opposite).

not to mention of your 6 comments, not a single one is more than a sentence...no big deal, except you typed a LOT, and got back little. (it must be your storytelling style...or all your whining)

it's rumble time.....(Ben loved my home state btw, said it was the bands best show ever before the encore)

we even got a cool show poster for $40
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 11:26:26 PM by furburger »
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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2017, 11:17:42 PM »
also, your Bottlerock tape, you turn the volume up to 40%, and it goes all to shit.

mine will be able to be cranked at least to 80% and still sound clean.

THAT is the tale of the tape, and why you've lost this one out of the gate.



any other artists you want to compare?
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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2017, 11:18:55 PM »
haven't even listened to the internals one yet, but I'll bet it's better than yours as well.

just so you know.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2017, 10:24:25 AM »
haven't even listened to the internals one yet, but I'll bet it's better than yours as well.

just so you know.

I listened to 1 song.  As I said, it doesn't completely suck but one song is enough.  Has been deleted, no need to waste space.  I think the issue is your playback.  I don't need to turn it up to 40% to get high enough volume here.  Maybe  if you had a better stereo good recording would sound better,but then again you won't put your money behind it.  I will.  If you think it sounds good that should be good enough for you.  Personally, not impressed.

Offline nak700s

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2017, 01:36:11 PM »
I couldn't care less about your feud about who makes more money, who gets more ass or who the better father is, but I was curious enough to take the time to download both of your offerings and sample them both.  All I care about is what sounds better.

The first problem I hear here is that one of you is posting apples and the other is posting oranges.  Get it together and make it a fair competition.   Here's what I'd like to see: Decide on a recording situation that you either both have or are willing to do...and be honest.  Both  recordings need to be either inside (decide on the size and type of the venue) or outside (decide on the size and type of venue).  Next is positioning.  One of you at 20 feet and the other at 75 feet isn't a fair test.

Additionally, you both need to supply an anal report, so we know what we're listening to.  I forgot who's was who's, and don't care, but the one labeled BHIC... had the anal report attached, the one labeled DR0000... did not.  I will refer to those labels going forward.

I listened to both at various points during the recordings in the same manner (maintaining the same volume and listening through Sennheiser HD380 Pro headphones).  Like I indicated above, both recording situations were far to different to make a fair comparison on the equipment used to record it.  I could easily draw a conclusion from what I've heard, but it means nothing because of positioning and environment.  Granted, there will never be a truly fair comparison until both rigs are in the same 1 square foot footprint recording the same thing, but since you two would probably kill each other if in the same proximity, that isn't going to be possible.  Given that you are both overloaded with cash, however, I would propose that you get together in a legal taping situation and do just that in order to settle this once and for all.

I know you are both interested in my opinion, since I gave both recordings a listen, and I will reluctantly give it to you, but not without further explaining that the venue, environment and position means EVERYTHING when comparing sound, and NONE of those things were aligned with these particular recordings.  Got that?  I mean, do you both truly understand that?
That being said, I found the presence of the DR0000 to be very raw and vibrant, while the BHIC was more natural and pleasing to the ear.  Two VERY different kinds of sound, and both subject to personal taste.  BHIC, unless it was something else, try not to touch the cables or allow them to be knocked around...or handle the deck.  I believe I heard more handling noise that I prefer.  DR0000, did you have a low cut on?  You need more bottom end tones.  AGAIN...these are NOT fair comparisons.  Get it together and try again.  If you can't be in the same place at the same time, I would suggest choosing a band that is consistent in their sound and venue type on the same tour (a good example of that would be Phish at the 13 show MSG run...but be in the same location).  Dead & Company is another good example of consistency in sound.  You need to agree on an arena (size matters), and stadium (size and shape matters) or shed....club...etc.

And for cryin' out loud, try and have fun doing it!

***Incidentally, I have no money (due to a divorce and a vindictive cunt), so if either of you big spenders want to help me pay my bills, I'm not too proud to accept the help***

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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2017, 02:34:56 PM »
I am willing to take the challenge. Not for Phish or Dead and Company though.  Yes my recording would have more handling noise given I was "in the crowd" at a large festival (Bottlerock in Napa 40,000 + attendees) and was getting jostled and bounced around and there was also a steady breeze resulting in a bit of wind noise. 

I totally understand what you are saying in terms of isolating out ALL other factors and actually made that point in the very beginning.  My comment ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, a recording made with better mics will yield a better recording.  When you start changing venues, positioning, etc it obviously becomes harder to compare but if I thought I could make a better recording using internal mics, I wouldn't have invested in my gear.  Whether the definition is 10% better or 50% better, the goal should be to make the best possible recording IMHO, not 90% as good although less money was spent.  That said, furby could never admit any recording than I,  Sloan Simpson, Dan Lynch, Edtyre or Scooter123 etc made sounds better than any of his recordings.   

Don't worry, I have fun doing this.   Just not a big fan of being insulted and belittled by someone I have zero respect for here and other places. 

Sorry, you went through that with a vindictive cunt (I can relate) and not sure where you are located but would enjoy taping a show with you and if it was to work out the tickets on me.  I enjoy meeting up with fellow tapers and have met with and taped shows with many on this board now and in the distant past.  At the least, I'd buy the beers.  I am based in Norcal and will be in NY and Philly in September.

Offline nak700s

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Re: Edirol R-09 internal mics distorting bass drum beats
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2017, 02:51:14 PM »
I am willing to take the challenge. Not for Phish or Dead and Company though.  Yes my recording would have more handling noise given I was "in the crowd" at a large festival (Bottlerock in Napa 40,000 + attendees) and was getting jostled and bounced around and there was also a steady breeze resulting in a bit of wind noise. 

I totally understand what you are saying in terms of isolating out ALL other factors and actually made that point in the very beginning.  My comment ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, a recording made with better mics will yield a better recording.  When you start changing venues, positioning, etc it obviously becomes harder to compare but if I thought I could make a better recording using internal mics, I wouldn't have invested in my gear.  Whether the definition is 10% better or 50% better, the goal should be to make the best possible recording IMHO, not 90% as good although less money was spent.  That said, furby could never admit any recording than I,  Sloan Simpson, Dan Lynch, Edtyre or Scooter123 etc made sounds better than any of his recordings.   

Don't worry, I have fun doing this.   Just not a big fan of being insulted and belittled by someone I have zero respect for here and other places. 

Sorry, you went through that with a vindictive cunt (I can relate) and not sure where you are located but would enjoy taping a show with you and if it was to work out the tickets on me.  I enjoy meeting up with fellow tapers and have met with and taped shows with many on this board now and in the distant past.  At the least, I'd buy the beers.  I am based in Norcal and will be in NY and Philly in September.


Yes, all things being equal is the main point of my comment.

The choice of bands I mentioned was not made by personal preference (although I do enjoy both) as much it was for their superior attention to the quality of sound over most other touring bands.
I live in NY (Long Island) and don't travel much these days (as a result of being broke), but catch what I can locally...often through a miracle or being on the guest list.  It will most likely be like that for me for the next 2+ years, as that is how much longer I have to deal with her and her crap.  Once done, and back on my feet, I look forward to being who I am again!  I'd love to get together when your in New York, and tape a show together, after all it is a passion of mine.  When you know you'll be around, reach out to me through messenger, and we can hook up.

I strive to capture the moment the way it is presented, not with various whistles and bells designed to alter the sound as we are hearing it in the audience, but not everyone is like that.  Not everyone likes a lot of low end, and will therefore roll it off.  I may not agree with that, but their's is not my tape.  I record for me, and share when I feel like it.  It's a good feeling when I post something that others like too, but I'm not doing it for that reason.  It's just a bonus if others enjoy something I've made and like the way I did it.  To each their own, and all that.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
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