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Offline in2blues

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Wind noise
« on: August 02, 2017, 11:50:07 AM »
I am using Church CA 11 Cards for outdoor shows. Mounted on stand most shows have come out really nice. I use Church Dead rats when windy, over the foam screens. This works okay but when wind gets gusty you can hear it in recording. Are movo windscreens ( rats) better and do they come in size to fit CA 11's ?
 Would it be worth mounting mics. in box wrapped with bandanna or T shirt ? I have a mini Milk crate (6 x5 inches) that I could attach to mic stand and mount mics inside it ? It gets really windy sometimes and I go to a lot of outdoor shows.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2017, 03:31:02 PM »
I know this isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but when I am recording outside on very windy days I always reach for a pair of omnis.  Directional mics are more sensitive to wind gusts; even gentle HVAC breezes indoors can sometimes turn into deep bass rumbling.  The very best windscreens help a lot, but not as much as switching to omnis.

I used to have CA-11 cards and the rats, but they never stood up to strong gusts for me either.  But when I put those same rats on a set of small omnis in similar wind situations, the noise was greatly reduced.

Another reason I like omnis outside (and in general) is that you don't have bass roll off with increasing distance.  The downside of course is dealing with audience noise if you are farther away.

You could pick up a pair of Naiant X-X omnis with clips and screens, terminated to a 1/8" plug just like your CA-11s for under $100.  Those particular mics also have rising treble response which can help compensate for reduced treble response at distance.
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Offline Limit35

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 01:08:42 AM »
You could pick up a pair of Naiant X-X omnis with clips and screens, terminated to a 1/8" plug just like your CA-11s for under $100.  Those particular mics also have rising treble response which can help compensate for reduced treble response at distance.

I have had very little wind problems with these. I've run them with Naiant's supplied screens, smaller lav screens, at8153s with some gaff tape on the mics to increase the diameter, and 'Naiant' screens with rats. I don't think I've had wind noise enough on a recording  to distract when listening or something I couldn't easily fix in post. I've had X/Y and DIN pairs killed by wind and still had the X-X pair to fall back on. Small omnis are nice in windy places, but you still need to the right screens for the situation.

Offline opsopcopolis

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 09:44:46 AM »
I know this isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but when I am recording outside on very windy days I always reach for a pair of omnis.  Directional mics are more sensitive to wind gusts; even gentle HVAC breezes indoors can sometimes turn into deep bass rumbling.  The very best windscreens help a lot, but not as much as switching to omnis.

At the end of the day, this is the only real solution to the problem.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 10:31:53 AM »
I know this isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but when I am recording outside on very windy days I always reach for a pair of omnis.  Directional mics are more sensitive to wind gusts; even gentle HVAC breezes indoors can sometimes turn into deep bass rumbling.  The very best windscreens help a lot, but not as much as switching to omnis.
sideways OT- the bolded part above reminds me to tell you good windscreens can be useful in more than just outdoor situations. I have had a few indoor recordings affected by fan noise either wall or ceiling mounted behind a bar or near a balcony overhang where I had mics placed. My lesson is to almost always run at least a small set of screens indoors (and lately we just run the large BAS Shures indoors as well as out- for loud RnR they don't noticeably affect freq response)
So, buy the best screens you can afford is my advice. (Omnis are not a bad advice too, and Voltronic knows of what he speaks)
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 08:25:46 PM »
You could pick up a pair of Naiant X-X omnis with clips and screens, terminated to a 1/8" plug just like your CA-11s for under $100.  Those particular mics also have rising treble response which can help compensate for reduced treble response at distance.

I have had very little wind problems with these. I've run them with Naiant's supplied screens, smaller lav screens, at8153s with some gaff tape on the mics to increase the diameter, and 'Naiant' screens with rats. I don't think I've had wind noise enough on a recording  to distract when listening or something I couldn't easily fix in post. I've had X/Y and DIN pairs killed by wind and still had the X-X pair to fall back on. Small omnis are nice in windy places, but you still need to the right screens for the situation.

My default mics for marching band season are my 10-year-old Naiant X-Qs with big foam & fur screens (soon to be Movo SuperSoftie clones).  I can go on top of the stadium press box in winds strong enough to push you around, and the recordings are still usable.

I don't have any direct experience with the X-X but have liked the sound of recordings I've heard of them, and Jon can configure them to run with whatever powering / connection you have.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2017, 08:40:28 PM »
I know this isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but when I am recording outside on very windy days I always reach for a pair of omnis.  Directional mics are more sensitive to wind gusts; even gentle HVAC breezes indoors can sometimes turn into deep bass rumbling.  The very best windscreens help a lot, but not as much as switching to omnis.
sideways OT- the bolded part above reminds me to tell you good windscreens can be useful in more than just outdoor situations. I have had a few indoor recordings affected by fan noise either wall or ceiling mounted behind a bar or near a balcony overhang where I had mics placed. My lesson is to almost always run at least a small set of screens indoors (and lately we just run the large BAS Shures indoors as well as out- for loud RnR they don't noticeably affect freq response)
So, buy the best screens you can afford is my advice. (Omnis are not a bad advice too, and Voltronic knows of what he speaks)

When I use my CM3s indoors where I have offending breezes, I use the stock thin foam screens and they are plenty to take care of the gentle gusts without killing the treble.

It's also very helpful to listen with headphones that have very deep bass response to see if you have any of this creeping into your recordings.  I thought my old Grados were full-range.  Nope.  Now when I go back and listen with my sealed Sennheisers, I will hear all kinds of subsonic rumbling in certain recordings.  I used to think it was structural, but later came to realize it was wind noise.  And it's worth noting that I never get any of this noise on my (indoor) omni tracks.

Recently on GS, one of the pro classical people there posted a blind shootout between a pair of AB omnis and a M/S pair.  Even though the omnis have much lower bass response, I only heard the LF rumbling on the M/S tracks.  All 4 mics were flown, but none had windscreens.

So yes, get the very best windscreens you can, no matter what mics you're using.  But if it's really windy, you are fighting a difficult battle with directional mics.  That's why things like the Rycote Cyclone exist, and there's a reason they're that expensive.
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Offline Limit35

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2017, 08:42:39 PM »
My default mics for marching band season are my 10-year-old Naiant X-Qs with big foam & fur screens (soon to be Movo SuperSoftie clones).  I can go on top of the stadium press box in winds strong enough to push you around, and the recordings are still usable.

I don't have any direct experience with the X-X but have liked the sound of recordings I've heard of them, and Jon can configure them to run with whatever powering / connection you have.

I have a pair of MSH-1Os that have a similar body style as the X-Q, what type of screens are you using on yours? I guess my problem is the clip I use interferes with the screens I would like to use since the MSH has quite a long taper.

The new X-X versions come in low noise and low sensitivity models now.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 09:12:21 PM »
My default mics for marching band season are my 10-year-old Naiant X-Qs with big foam & fur screens (soon to be Movo SuperSoftie clones).  I can go on top of the stadium press box in winds strong enough to push you around, and the recordings are still usable.

I don't have any direct experience with the X-X but have liked the sound of recordings I've heard of them, and Jon can configure them to run with whatever powering / connection you have.

I have a pair of MSH-1Os that have a similar body style as the X-Q, what type of screens are you using on yours? I guess my problem is the clip I use interferes with the screens I would like to use since the MSH has quite a long taper.

The new X-X versions come in low noise and low sensitivity models now.

The last few years I used the RØDE WS8.  The rubber ring popped snugly over the indentation where the the capsule housing meets the body (aka XLR connector).

I've since unloaded those screens and purchased the Movo WSTT50.  While I haven't used them in real-world heavy winds, they passed my industrial fan test at home with flying colors.  If nothing else, they seal much better at the rear due to the type of thin rubber flange they use.  I think they will probably work much better with your MSHs with the tapered profile.  The WS8 are clearly built for a 20mm cylinder body.
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline Limit35

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 11:40:26 PM »

The last few years I used the RØDE WS8.  The rubber ring popped snugly over the indentation where the the capsule housing meets the body (aka XLR connector).

I've since unloaded those screens and purchased the Movo WSTT50.  While I haven't used them in real-world heavy winds, they passed my industrial fan test at home with flying colors.  If nothing else, they seal much better at the rear due to the type of thin rubber flange they use.  I think they will probably work much better with your MSHs with the tapered profile.  The WS8 are clearly built for a 20mm cylinder body.

Thanks, I didn't think about rubber ring screens at the xlr/capsule body interface. On a stand with windy conditions I would prefer to use the MSHs sub 1m meter and another card pair PIP, which is opposite of my normal setup. Since I have been bringing in the split X-Xs inwards anticipating having a blown center pair, I've realized I don't need a PFA in the chain to the center pair if theres a good chance I losing them in windy days anyway. Double screens work OK on normal windy days but during the summer storms those cards can be toast when the gusts pick up.

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Wind noise
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 01:13:30 AM »
Would it be worth mounting mics. in box wrapped with bandanna or T shirt ? I have a mini Milk crate (6 x5 inches) that I could attach to mic stand and mount mics inside it ? It gets really windy sometimes and I go to a lot of outdoor shows.

Somewhat contrarian to all the above I think you would be on the right track with that!   

As I'm sure I've posted in another thread touching this topic I've had no problem with my SP cards with the light foam windscreen under a very thin shirt that keeps wind from striking them directly.  The same conditions that generate fairly large audible gusts are gust free if I just drape the thin shirt that usually is under the mics when I wear them loosely over top.  The problem is just the sound pressure of the direct wind blowing into the mic which does cut through most foam/rat windscreens if it is strong.  If you leave the screens on and put thin fabric or plastic or anything that stops the wind impact (without fluttering on the mics to create a different issue of bumps) you'll be totally fine.  This does not have any discernable impact on the sound either (and is far preferable to the wind noise which has a major impact). 

Similarly in heavy rain you can just wrap them in very thin plastic with the tie point under them to keep the water off without a notable impact on sound. 
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>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

 

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