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Author Topic: Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S  (Read 12336 times)

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Offline plucks

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2003, 05:49:07 PM »
Hey all-
I have posted a Blues Traveler show - 1997/07/03 - from Red Rocks that also pairs as an omni comparison.  Normally, omni's aren't recommended at this venue, but this did happen to work!
 http://www.sonicsense.com/downloads.htm

Source: Set 1= Microtech Geffell m296>EAA>Tascam DA-p1 @48kHz (8' high, split 4', 16th row, DFCTS, high pass filter turned off at ~42 min)
Set 2 = AKG 480/ck 62>EAA>Tascam DA-p1 (8' high, split 4', 16th row, DFCTS)

Enjoy!
PHiL
« Last Edit: May 14, 2003, 10:13:19 PM by plucks »
"Then you have those who are completely loyal to Trey. Of course, they are the Republicans. Trey can play horribly, make mistakes, probably lie to the audience yet his backers will not waiver in their staunch support of him." | You may ask your self, how do you get a free bottle of champagne at dinner?  "Guest on Guest Violence"
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Offline Marc Nutter

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2003, 05:09:21 PM »
Generally, I find that cardioids produce the best results and I keep them, as usual, about 8-12" apart.

I hope this helps.

See ya on the Rocks,

Marc

hi Marc and all,

quick question.  utilizing what stereo config exactly?  point at the stacks method?  just curious, as there is so much talk of Line Array systems/ mono vs. stereo/ height and placement of mics, etc.  and yet the method you seem to choose is not one commonly chosen by experienced tapers as providing the best stereo image.  curious as to your thoughts on this subject.   ::)

Happy Retailing,

~Scott

btw:  as long as i see you're over here price matching your competitors, what's your best price on a set of ak50 caps?   ;)

Hi Scott and All,

I generally run my mics aiming to the outside of the P.A. system.  The more I like the sound of the venue, the wider I will angle the mics.  To offset the narrower angle that results if I am positioned too far back to make a 110 degree angle, I space the mics a bit further apart (8-12" instead of the 170mm--6.5" specific by ORTF).  Whether this works best on paper, in practice, or only in my own head, I'll leave to each individual listener.

As quantegy pointed out, I have written a detailed explanation of this on our website www.sonicsense.com/micplace.htm

As far as your Neumann price request, due to the very competitive pricing we offer, you will have to call or email sales@sonicsense.com directly for pricing.

As you have inquired extensively regarding my posts, I think you may find the following book quite informative as it covers many of the issues I address.

Sound System Engineering
Second Edition
Don and Carolyn Davis

This is considered by most audio professionals to be among the most useful resources in their library.

Happy Recording,

Marc

Offline creekfreak

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2003, 07:03:02 PM »
nice marc, been looking for a good book to get, +t
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Offline Chuck

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2003, 03:29:41 PM »
Quote
Generally, I find that cardioids produce the best results and I keep them, as usual, about 8-12" apart.

I hope this helps.

See ya on the Rocks,

Marc

I've heard it refered to here as the "Nutter" technique.
It's actually the way lots of guys used to tape the Grateful Dead starting in the 1980's with Nak 300's. Works best outside. IMHO.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
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Offline Kevin

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2003, 09:33:45 PM »
My 2 cents,
I just got back from red rocks yesterday and I taped the panic run.  I ran AKG 391>DMIC-20 with shure windscreens and I had my mics pointed to the outside of the stacks.  I was happy with the quality of the recording but had battery issues.  I even let a guy I met on my flight (who has a buddy that taped the show with better equiptment than me) listen to my recordings and he wanted a copy.  Anyway my advice would be try this method, get to the show really really really early and wait in line before the gates open (I had a little trouble getting aspot) take it for what its worth. Hope your tapes turn out well
Kevin
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Offline plucks

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2003, 12:42:09 PM »
Anyway my advice would be try this method, get to the show really really really early and wait in line before the gates open (I had a little trouble getting aspot) take it for what its worth. Hope your tapes turn out well
Kevin

Agreed!  I got in line early and it was worth it!  The tapes i made are some of the best I have made...And the new Claire PA system that Panic has has dispelled the curse of B&K/DPA not working great at Red Rocks.  It is true that older panic shows at red rocks with 4011s do not sound good at all.
Oh yeah, what is all this complaining I am hearing about on DigiPanic about bad taper conduct?

Phil
« Last Edit: July 03, 2003, 12:44:46 PM by plucks »
"Then you have those who are completely loyal to Trey. Of course, they are the Republicans. Trey can play horribly, make mistakes, probably lie to the audience yet his backers will not waiver in their staunch support of him." | You may ask your self, how do you get a free bottle of champagne at dinner?  "Guest on Guest Violence"
1pt21gw.blogspot.com | vimeo HD videos! | the new Signal Path

Dirty Business down on Coal Creek

Offline Chuck

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2003, 12:57:08 PM »
I'm going to get there early for The Dead shows. I want to try a variation of "critically spaced omnis" the first night. 2 ft spacing pointed at the edges of the stacks.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline plucks

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2003, 01:05:19 PM »
That 2ft spacing should be great!  It's not too wide to loose the phantom middle section that sometimes disappear when mics are space too far apart.  
Good luck
Phil
"Then you have those who are completely loyal to Trey. Of course, they are the Republicans. Trey can play horribly, make mistakes, probably lie to the audience yet his backers will not waiver in their staunch support of him." | You may ask your self, how do you get a free bottle of champagne at dinner?  "Guest on Guest Violence"
1pt21gw.blogspot.com | vimeo HD videos! | the new Signal Path

Dirty Business down on Coal Creek

Offline Chuck

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2003, 01:17:13 PM »
It's going to be my first time using omnis. I've always liked the omni recordings I've heard, so I'm going to try it. I built a 3 piece bar with long swing-out (a-la AKG T-Bar)"wings." Total spacing is a bit more than 2 ft, but can be adjusted somewhat. A key factor will be how close I can get. So I'm getting there early!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline EScott

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2003, 03:17:03 PM »
I lent out my MK2 caps to a buddy who ran them with the tubes>V3 for the 1st night of Panic.  They are some of the worst tapes I heard from Red Rocks.  The two sets of subs I heard, from the 21's and U89's, sounded better by leaps and bounds.  

Eric
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But wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight"

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2003, 04:44:49 PM »
Richard set up a Bit Torrent for the 6/27 show.  Source was mk21>kc5>cmc6>v3 @16/44.1 TS/NOS

Here's the link:
http://torrent.pyite.com/wsp/wsp2003-06-27-1644.torrent

Offline wboswell

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2003, 10:54:18 AM »
I haven't had a listen to any other sources, but I am very impressed with the mk21>v3 source I have.  I think that subs are the way to go at that venue!

Offline dmonterisi

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2003, 11:01:29 AM »
i have subcards from 2 nights last year as well (Hubert i think) and they sound pretty good as well.  Richard's mk21 source does sound outstanding...however, i'm even more impressed with c. fox's M/S>tubes>v3 from sunday.  i think that's the best panic source i've ever heard from red rocks.  i know charles' came out too windy on saturday.  tim ran the u89's as subcards 2 nights and said they came out v. nice as well...you may be on to something, william...

-damon

Offline wboswell

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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2003, 01:50:53 PM »
I haven't heard the m/s>tubes yet.  I'll get on digitalpanic.org tonight for the bit torrent.

I guess there were no FOB tapers this year.  All the sources I have seen were from the section.  Was the soundboard down lower this year, making FOB too close?  Not that I am disappointed with what I have heard, but lower in the ampitheatre usually reduces wind phasing.

Anyways, thanks for the heads up, Damon!


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Re:Best Setup for Red Rocks T/S
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2003, 03:34:23 PM »
The vip section extended down to about the third or fourth row... too close to tape from so everyone was in the section.

I'm going to hopefully have my tapes out and circulating this week. Still trying to get the new soundcard working in the new laptop!

I haven't heard the m/s>tubes yet.  I'll get on digitalpanic.org tonight for the bit torrent.

I guess there were no FOB tapers this year.  All the sources I have seen were from the section.  Was the soundboard down lower this year, making FOB too close?  Not that I am disappointed with what I have heard, but lower in the ampitheatre usually reduces wind phasing.

Anyways, thanks for the heads up, Damon!



 

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