Topic: ?'s about running Omni's

[BCostigan]

Now (thanks to jesse) I have a full rig to run I'm thinking about taping the IT phish show.  I'll have a pair of cp-2 caps (omni) to run on the Nak 300s and would like to try split omni up there.  

Any ideas or suggestions on doing this??  Height? Spacing?  

Also...I know they are "omnidirectional" but is it best to go with an ATS approach or aim them at the sky??  What would eliminate the crowd the most??

I've got questions...the board's got answers.

[jpschust]

you wanna aim ats... id suggest going to a crappy outdoor show, if you can get to one, where no one is gonna care about taping- some high school band on a pos pa or something like that.  Take your stands and record about 10 minutes at 5-7ft of spread... then pause tape and move to 7-9ft... you get the idea... different mics have different spreads that work for them- for example- if you spread the neumann tlm 170's more than 10ft, there isn't enough crossover to make a good sounding tape, however some are able to split to 20 ft and make great tapes... so what im saying is you need to really experiment.

Jonny

[BCostigan]

Thanks Johnny!  I've heard some great tapes of outdoor shows that were done split omni.  Most that I've seen have been split @ 10ft...just wondering if that was a standard.  So....anyone want to save me some legwork??  Anyone run NAK 300s/cp-2 split before??  Any advice on separation ect??  

[DaryanLenz]

Brian,

If you want to hear some 10-15 ft spliut omni's from this weekend, I think they were Donna the Buffalo and The New Deal, let me know.  Some dude was running AKG 482's split into a V3, and they sound pretty darn good.

Actually, I will offer u-p copies to anyone that wants to hear them!

Daryan

[F.O.Bean]

d,
 count me in bro.......i was thinkin about snatchin up some 62's myself for the summer festies.....i would LOVE to hear something from them first..... thanks and talk to you soon...

bean

[BCostigan]

Daryan...thanks for the offer!  I've heard a handfull of different split omni tapes and they all sound great!  I'm pretty sure ALL the ones I've heard have been made with large diaphram Neumans...so I was wondering on the spread, specifically for the Naks, that would work best.   I may have to follow Johnny's suggestion and do some experimenting.

[BCostigan]

Mike I was hoping you'd chime in!  What's the Jecklin Disc    While I don't think running on two stands will be much trouble I'm curious what the Jecklin thing is!!

Thanks for using post #600 on my question!

[BCostigan]

A quick search using google provided the info.  Does that crazy looking thing work??  Same results as splitting them??  I can imagine le looks strapping that to your stand!!

[jessedscott]

Ok , here's a "section" question. For those who are going to "IT", how close do you think "WE" can get to the stage?, before they say too far? Or will it not matter, seeing that there will most likely be 60,000+?
This answer will help me decide what I'm going to run with. BC, I think the Jecklin Disc is a great Idea, that's funny how I was trying to look at David Saunders web site last night for this very purpose, NOT Available

JDS

[jessedscott]

I have seen it in the past, on scitaper, I can't remember what the link was??? But yes it does look quite heavy.

JDS

[wbrisette]

Here are a few things about Omni's not posted.

When you spread out omni's too far apart you get the classic "hole in the middle". This was mentioned in a previous post, but described a bit different than I've heard it in the past. Basically what happens is your mics are so far apart that they no longer provide you with stereo image that captures all the music, you loose part of the instrumentation in the middle. With amplified music with amplifiers this isn't as big of an issue as it is with acoustic/classical music. Typically what is done to fix this is to run additional mics. For most tapers this isn't an option.

So, how far should you spread your mics? 4-10 feet is more than enough in most cases. I started running 4 feet, and have since shortened it to 1 metre. Why? Because the additional 8 inches doesn't provide me with any additional stereo imaging, and with my configuration it puts less stress on the horizontal bar (I have to come up with another way to attach the bar to my stand). By using a horizontal bar I only have to setup 1 mic stand, yet I still get to separate the microphones. See:

http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/stand/homebrew.html

I run 4 mics, so my stand looks a bit strange to most folks, but I like the sound, so that's all that matters.
 

Hope all of this helps.

Wayne

[RRobar]

Brian,
Run the jecklin ! But you may wish to stake down the  stand good though. I have a feeling the wind across the field area may be intense. The jdisc looks like it may be a sail in winds.

You guys shouldbe able to get pretty darn close at IT. But that j-disc may have to stay in back in the section nothing stealth about that thing

[RRobar]

But the "IT" show may be the perfect place to run such a thing.

[F.O.Bean]

+T all star......

bean

[BCostigan]

+T rob for star #4!

Thanks to all on this thread...great info as always!

I think "IT" will be the perfect place to try this mostrocity.  If I'm running omnis (with or without the jecklin) it'll be from the section....trying to run way FOB split omni seems a bit of a strech.

As for making this thing...I've got some questions for Mike:

Could I make one out of those egg crate matress things?? Put 2 1'x1' pieces togther (eggcrates inside) and attach some king of sheet metal stapping supports to the top and bottom??

I guess what I'm driving at is do I need something solid in the middle...ie plywood...or can I have some thick foam thats supported so it isn't flopping in the wind??

Suggestions on materials and construction??

Jesse....maybe we could run a 4 mic mix with the omnis and the guns.....we'd just need a mixer!