Topic: Photographing a wedding

[mmmatt]

He all,
I have recently been asked by a good friend to photograph her daughters wedding.  This wedding is somewhat of a low budget affair and they can't afford a real photographer.  I'm not a bad photagrapher but I'm certainly no pro.  They want the pictures printed, and I'm affraid that printing from digital isn't going to be as good/long lasting as printing from film.  As I'm writing this I'm not necessarily sure that is true when you send the media out for pro printing... maybe someone can help me there.
     So anyways, I currently have a digital point-and-shoot and a manual 35mm slr.  I used to shoot with the 35mm quite a bit but it has been a really long time.  I just don't trust myself with something as important as a wedding and my fading memory of proper settings for a manual camera.  I don't want to take the risk.  The 35mm I had prior to the one I have now was a minolta auto slr but I sold it and bought this one because of my frustration over no being able to acces manual functions for no-flash shooting.  I did actually shoot a wedding with the old auto 35 mm and the photo's came out great, so I would like to get another easy to use auto 35 slr for this event and play it safe.

I'll make one more comment on this.  I'm currently divorced, but the photo's at my wedding, that we paid a couple thousand dollars for, were almost completly botched.  The mouse-like, newbie photagrapher that was sent by the company we hired, had her giant flash "on an arm" cocked about 90 deg off for the better part of the wedding, so many of the pictures have a shadow cutting through the middle of them.  Others were over exposed and some were blury.  Very few were properly composed, and we had to keep finding her all night telling her what to take photographs of... it was a total disaster, and really the only dark spot on the event.  We were mortified to say the least, and that is part of my motivation for helping them with this and using a decent auto slr.  I know I won't f- it up that much and I have enough balls and persoanality to get people to pose.

So I may buy something off ebay.  I may see if I can rent locally, I'm not sure at this point.  I have an older 8mm video camera I think I will set up on a tripod for the service just for archival purposes.  It is just a dj so I won't be taping anything.  Actually the dj is a local radio personality who is the boyfriend of another close friend so it should be pretty cool.  I may hook the iriver up to his mixer and just patch for archival of the music.

Any suggestions will be great.  I will probably just charge them whatever money I spend on gear and developing and maybe a $100 so I get some cash out of it.  If I can get as good of quality prints from digital I would much prefer to go that route because if I buy a 35mm camera it will most likey just be put on ebay after the event.  For my perssonal use I'm all about digital.  Also any suggestions/tips on basic wedding photography will be greatly appreciated.  I would like to keep this all under $400 plus developing which I'm sure will be a couple hundred bucks.

Matt

[Javier Cinakowski]

My wedding was done with a digital SLR.  The prints are amazing. 

[BJ]

Why would they want everything printed originally?  This seems like the biggest money waster of the whole process.  I understand wanting prints, but ALL of them?  Have you brought up the idea of giving them digital on a cd/dvd, and then letting them choose which they would like for prints? 
As for prints, we took of the the RAW images from the digital to the local camera shop here (there are several, but we had dealt with them all, and we knew who was the best at prints) and had ours printed ourselves.  We even got a discount since it was a wedding  (just somehting to ask about also)  The prints are great.  We have some as large as 11x17 and they still look amazing.  However, our photographer was shooting with a D70 (not a professional, but had shot weddings before)  Im not sure about your point and shoot, but how long do you have before the wedding?  Seems like you could warm up to the SLR and read up some (talk to jonny and damon..i know they both shoot alot)  maybe use both (point and shoot is so small)  I don't believe a point and shoot will give you the flexibility to enlarge the prints near as much as shooting film with slr, not to mention the lens difference.

[mmmatt]

OK guys.  That is good info.  Seems digital slr camreas are more cash than I thought.  Maybe I could do it with my point and shoot.  it is a cannon a70 and it takes nice prints.  It is only a 3.2 mp so I think the size limit for that is 5x7 without cropping.  Good point about not printing pics for proofs.  I know they would like a dvd slideshow but you can really do that with either 35mm or digital.  I need to look into it more.  Please keep the suggestions comming in!  I could start blasting rools of film through my manual camera and getting used to it again... maybe that is the approach I hould take.

Matt

[MattD]

I don't know about that particular P&S, but the main reason I wouldn't trust most of them for something important is how they act in low light, which is likely to be the situation at a wedding. A lot of P&S cameras have trouble with AF in low light, and often refuse to fire unless they're locked on something. Add motion in there (dancing, walking down aisle) and you're in trouble.

You sound uncomfortable with this and that's a sign that you shouldn't do it. If they're low-budget, then see if you can find some photo students at a local university who would like to add to their portfolios.

[mmmatt]

I don't know about that particular P&S, but the main reason I wouldn't trust most of them for something important is how they act in low light, which is likely to be the situation at a wedding. A lot of P&S cameras have trouble with AF in low light, and often refuse to fire unless they're locked on something. Add motion in there (dancing, walking down aisle) and you're in trouble.

You sound uncomfortable with this and that's a sign that you shouldn't do it. If they're low-budget, then see if you can find some photo students at a local university who would like to add to their portfolios.

well... I am a little nervous about it but not so much as it may seem.  I know my point and shoot very well actually.  It has an infrared beam for low light focusing.  I often use it in manual mode for moving shots so that doesn't scare me so much either.  Pluse with a digital I can go to the lappy every now and again and make sure they are comming out OK.  My worry there is it doesn't have the resolution for large prints.  I'm going to have to think more about it.  As for low light my camera isn't ideal for distants shots, but for closeups it is just fine.  I often use it without flash at concerts and as long as I'm close I get good results.  I will be using a flash at the wedding.
     I may just use my manual in addition to the digi.  The digi is safe and the slr will provide better blowups.  Important thins I will shoot with both.  At the wedding and major things at the reception like cake cutting etc.  For the impromtu shots at the reception I think the point and shoot will be fine.

I'll think more...

matt

[dmonterisi]

when/where is this wedding?

as for your P&S, while i think you will get a handful of good shots, you are going to be limited by several factors.  first, the weak flash built in to P&S cameras will be a big detraction.  those flashes generally don't do any good from more than 12 or 15 feet away.  to get good shots you are going to need to be very close and that will be very intrusive into the ceremony.  the weak zoom on that camera will also be a problem in this area.  secondly, the shutter lag and lack of responsiveness will make getting good shots difficult.  everyone will have to pose and because you can't fire a few shots at once, you are rolling the dice on each shot.  if you try to get action shots, you are going to have problems there as well.  the flash will also be slow to recover so getting a couple of good shots quickly will be highly unlikely.  the relatively low resolution will be an issue, as you point out, if they want any pictures blown up (and EVERY married couple wants at least an 8x10).  you'll be able to get an 8x10 out of a 3 mpix camera, but you will not be able to crop it at all and you will lack some detail in a picture blown up from that resolution sensor.

[mmmatt]

when/where is this wedding?

as for your P&S, while i think you will get a handful of good shots, you are going to be limited by several factors.  first, the weak flash built in to P&S cameras will be a big detraction.  those flashes generally don't do any good from more than 12 or 15 feet away.  to get good shots you are going to need to be very close and that will be very intrusive into the ceremony.  the weak zoom on that camera will also be a problem in this area.  secondly, the shutter lag and lack of responsiveness will make getting good shots difficult.  everyone will have to pose and because you can't fire a few shots at once, you are rolling the dice on each shot.  if you try to get action shots, you are going to have problems there as well.  the flash will also be slow to recover so getting a couple of good shots quickly will be highly unlikely.  the relatively low resolution will be an issue, as you point out, if they want any pictures blown up (and EVERY married couple wants at least an 8x10).  you'll be able to get an 8x10 out of a 3 mpix camera, but you will not be able to crop it at all and you will lack some detail in a picture blown up from that resolution sensor.

thanks Damon for the advice.  The wedding is in Kenosha, WI in December.  I'm thinking the P&S for reception shots only.  I think I may try the manual for the ceremony.  Maybe I can get out and use it for something this week to see if it all comes back quickly enough.  Shoot a roll and if it is good just go for it. 
     I looked on ebay and there is no way I can afford a digital slr camera, but the old auto 35 I used to have can be had for about $80.  It was a minolta maxxum.  Not highend but it took nice pictures that were worthy of 8x10.  I may stop by some of my local camera shops and see if they can rent me a nice digi... that would be the ticket I think. 
     Other than dancing there won't be much in the way of action shots, and being december it will all be indoors. I have a few days before I have to decide if I want to tackle it.  I really want to help them out and I like the idea of being a part of a good friend's daughters wedding, so I really want to work it out.

matt

[mmmatt]

Well I made a decession.  I've deceided to take the job.  After doing a little more research and talking to my local camera shop it was suggested to me (and of course by you folks) that the biggest issue I'm going to have is going to be the flash.  After doing a little more ebay research, it seems as though there are a few different "prosumer" type camera's that I can get for the 3-400 range that have a hotshoe for an external flash.  I'm leaning toward a konica-minolta Dimage A1, or 7i.  The A1 would be really nice but may be a little high for me.
     this line of cameras all have the popup flash as well as the hotshoe so I should be good.  My goal is to get a camera with a min 7x zoom, a hotshoe, and min 5 mega pixels so I can still crop and get an 8x10 or possible do something larger if they want it.  There are others from fuji and sony which have similar features.  If anyone has specific models to suggest for me to consider please suggest away.  I'm just not going to be able to do an slr.  Just not enough money to work with here, but I think I will be able to produce some respectable pictures with one of these "slr-like" prosumer models.  The A1 is particularly interesting to me because it has image stabalization and that may be a big plus while shooting during the service without a flash.  The only potential downsides to the minolta's is they all only go as high as 800 iso.  that is pretty good though and unless the church is really dark inside I should be able to handle no-flash pics without too much trouble.  I'd love to have 1600 but I don't see that in the budget at this point.  I take concert shots with my p&s at 400 up close, so 800 from a distance with better light should be OK.  I'll shoot the rehersal to be sure.  Comments?
    I will do all the croping and editing myself, but I will have the local camera shop do all the color balancing for me before they print.  I plan on shooting about 1000 photos and we will all spend an afternoon going through them on the tv via dvd to pick the keepers and talk about cropping.
     Just for the record, I quoted her $700 for 100 @ 4x6 prints, 6@ 8x10, and also a photo slideshow with fades and music.  I'm also going to set up my ancient 8mm camcorder for a single perspective archival of the service and convert to dvd as a freebie.  I also told her she would get 3 redundant copies on dvd of the slideshow, video, master files and cropped/edited files so that each set of parents and the happy couple can archive the entire fileset.  She was tickled that it was so cheap, and just that I was willing to be a part of the event.  I told her that I was baseing the number on my actual costs and that a large part of that cost was a new camera.  She thought it all sounded good and will pay me 1/2 next week so I can start playing with my new toy!  Now I just need to figure out which one to buy!  the prints are going to be ~$130, and then I'm figuring I'll burn through a color cartridge on the inkjet printing thumbnalis (to take notes on for our editing meeting), a single 8mm video tape, and a dozen or so dvd's.  So, that is going to leave me about $500 for a camera, flash, flash arm (maybe), media card (s), and a bottle of scotch so I can medicate myself during the many hours of photo editing!  I may want to rent some light difusers and studio type lighting equpt for the formal shots... I'd like someones thoughts on that.

Matt

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

[mmmatt]

Those folks had to pay someone for sure...

Matt,

I've come to this late.  I shot one and only one wedding for cost.  I used a combo of 35mm and 120mm in the form of a Yashicamat TLR.  I didn't take a lot of flash at the church and not any at the outdoors reception... your December gig will def require flash.  Sounds like you have decided to spend some cash on a decent digi camera.  I didn't read all your comments but you prolly do need to shoot for at least 6mpix.  The speed of the glass will be of some consideration I'd think if you are going to be running flash a lot or perhaps trying some available light shots.  I'd not spend too much on phat zoom ratios, you'll be face on with most folks unless they want lots of candids.  If it were me, I'd try to get specific shots detailed by the couple so that you can give them what they really want.  Get the names of everyone in the party and get there in time to meet them or at least recognize their status (family, friend, ex...) If you have half a shot at finding out about he venue it might help "preview" the shoot.  If there are really high ceilings in the church or reception then bounce flash is likely to yield poor results but conversely will soften the harshness of direct flash alot.  Your flash should be set up well above or off to the side of the lens axis to help avoid red eye... but you knew that I bet... I prolly should have read the whole thread   I have some toys I could loan you if you want.  Let me know what you might want and I'll see if I have it.

Thanks Dave for the info.  You actually answered a few questions that I just hadn't asked yet.  the flash angle -vs- ceiling height was one of them.  here are the questions that are in my head now. (for Dave or anyone)

At the service:
The camera I'm looking at hard is the Konica-Minolta dimage A1.  Konica Minolta has gone out of business so they can be had pretty cheap.  http://ca.konicaminolta.com/products/consumer/digital_camera/dimage/dimage-a1/spec.html

This is a 5 mp camera, and getting into a camera with 6mp and similar features will be tough at this price point.  there are refurbished units on the bay for 250-300.  the highest iso setting is 800 with an f-stop of 2.8  I'm thinking this should be fine without flash in the church as long as it isn't super dark.  Any comment there?

A potential big advantage to this camera is the image stabilization feature that will assumably allow me to shoot at a lower shutter spead and/or higher zoom without a tripod.

Formal shots at the church:
Do you think a flash arm is a necessity or is a taller flash mounted on top going to be OK?

Should I consider getting some light difusers (meaning thoes umbrella things) and external studio lighting?  I'm pretty sure I can rent that stuff reasonably.

Shooting at the reception

any special considerations here?  I've shot at receptions with my p&s and had good results... well, untill I flick the boot one to many times!  the A1 is supposed to be able to autofocus on moving images, and it can shoot at 3 frames continuous as uncompressed tiff or 5 in raw format @ 2.8fps

What the hell is raw format?  I'll probably shoot uncompressed tiff's for the formals and jpg's for the rest.  Probably shoot the reception at a little lower resolution to save card dumps.  I'll just plan on having my lappy with me and a card reader.  I have a program that will just read pics out of a folder and do a slide show as a screensaver, so we can even do a little show during the reception on my lappy screen.

Matt

[mizary]

I don't have much time...  but I'll toss out a few opinions...

I highly recomend a SLR (35mm or digi) over a P&S...  if for nothing else than for speed of shooting.  If digi I agree 6mp is minimum.

A "big flash" should cut out the red eye...  I've never had a red eye problem with my external flash (nikon sb-600) (no arm)

Another potential problem is backlit subjects.  I ran video for a wedding once and there were big windows behind the bride/bride (yes, it was a lesbian wedding) it was tough to get a decent exposure.  The photographer also had problems.  His only good shots were outside.  Brrr...  outside is DEC might be tough.

For the formal shots make sure you have access to a nice background...  a nice wall can work...  but don't expect to be able to find something nice on the day of.  If you rent lights you can probably rent a backdrop too...  it makes a big difference.

raw format is a good thing.  It will yield smaller files than the tiff (I think) and it doesn't embed the white balance, etc into the file.  This way you can losslessly change these things after shooting.  If you shoot tiff all the info is embedded in the file.  (I'm not explaining this well)

You are a good man...  Shooting a wedding is alot of work...  mostly post-production.  It took me almost a year to finish the DVD for the wedding I shot...  then again I did it all for free, and designed menus, case artwork, etc...  it was a big pain in the butt.  Next time I'll just buy a nice blender. 

--mizary

[BayTaynt3d]

One thing to note about image stabilization: it can help stop YOUR shake, but it won't stop your SUBJECT's shake. So, yeah, you can "shoot one stop lower," which everyone says, but depending on the actual speed shot, if your subject moves, you'll still get blur. That gets missed sometimes.

BTW, RAW is to WAV as JPG is to MP3 essentially, but there's tons of info on the net about that. Bottom line, it's great for saving the true masters and being able to make adjustments before any compression is applied, but the files are big (same as megapixel count, when even a high res jpg might be 1/3 of that) and it adds steps to your workflow (including the need to find/use apps that can handle RAW).

[Oysterhead00]

I'd just go with the point and shoot camera that you are comfortable with, it should get pretty good pix and while it might not be rated for anything larger than a 5x7 or 8x10, I find you can print larger and most people will think it looks great.  Most of the pix will be 4x6 going into an album and any larger ones will most likely be on walls or mantles and not looked at closely.  I'm sure there will be someone at the wedding who has a nice DSLR and if you wanted to approach them and ask if you could take a couple shots for the bride and groom I'm sure they'd allow it.

Bring a laptop and make sure you have both CF and SD > USB thingies to transfer the pix over.  That way you can borrow a camera if the opportunity presents itself and copy over the image right there and then.  Also, the coolest thing is to have some kind of slideshow software installed and just keep dumping your pix onto the laptop with it running in a continuous loop for the guests to enjoy....that's always a big crowd pleaser.

When it comes time to print them, you can get pretty good 4x6 prints from Target or Walmart, but with the 8x10s I'd recommend going someplace like Art Craft.  It will cost a few bucks, but they do a Digital > Negative transfer (with some cleanup) and then print from a negative and it's supposed to make the digipic MUCH cleaner.  I had them do this for a larger picture of my parents old house all decorated for X-Mas at night...took it with a 1.2MP piece of junk that made the surroundings (from the red lights) look brown instead of black.  This was a few years ago but they transfered and cleaned it up for $12 per 8x10 and they looked AMAZING for such a crappy camera.  My parents still have the pic at their new house and guests always comment on it.

RAW pictures contain data for every single sesor on your CCM or whatever it is....so if you have a 6 MP camera, it has the data for all 6,000,000+ sensors.  The file size is typically over 20MB per shot.  This is good if you're a professional and going to recolor it and do minute edits, but for most people it's kinda overkill.  Also, before you can look at it, you have to convert it from RAW.  For the MPs you are looking at and the amount of editing you will be doing the RAW option would be like recording with a Ratshack mic help up to a radio and doing it 24-bit   Regular JPG or a mid ranged TIFF file will suffice as it "guesses" on some pixels....if this one is blue and this one is blue, the one in the middle must be blue...and it saves space.  This RAW summary might not be 100% technically accurate, but I was looking into if I needed a RAW camera or not and got this info.

[mmmatt]

Thanks to everyone for all the good, well thought advice.  Just as yet another reason to say how cool this place is, I have had a few pms already of people offering to loan me their gear.  Thanks to all... man this place is cool!
     I'm really torn over the dslr vs "prosumer" point and shoot debacle.  I REALLY want to stay under $500 for everything, but I guess between my old manual and my little P&S I should be able to make up atleast $100.  I'll hold them both till after the wedding so that I can use them if something goes to shit, but I should be able to dump them soon after.
    I really like the features on the minolta a1.  The reviews I have been reading say wonderful things about the camera but criticize the resolution.  Do I NEED the image stabilization?  No... I can hold a camera steady and I have a tripod.  Do I like the security of it... yes.  Same with the 3d autofocus and some of the other features, but when it comes down to it, the money shots are going to be at the church, posed, and with a tripod.  Most everything else is going to be a 4x6.  In a 4x6 I can get away with a lot more than I can with an 8x10 or larger.  A little shake, a big crop or a little loss in resolution isn't the end of the world there.  So do I push my budget a bit and get an slr with inferior glass and features just so I can get better resolution... that is the question.  I have found that I can score rebel 300's, Nikon n50's, fugi s1's, olyimpus e-300's and a few other entry level ~3yr old slr's with kit glass for the range of my budget.  I will have to comrimise on the flash but that is probably a better compromise in the scheem of things... especially if I rent some

reflectors and lights for the formal shots.... soooo I'm just sittin' here in limbo 

I'd just go with the point and shoot camera that you are comfortable with, it should get pretty good pix and while it might not be rated for anything larger than a 5x7 or 8x10, I find you can print larger and most people will think it looks great.  Most of the pix will be 4x6 going into an album and any larger ones will most likely be on walls or mantles and not looked at closely.  I'm sure there will be someone at the wedding who has a nice DSLR and if you wanted to approach them and ask if you could take a couple shots for the bride and groom I'm sure they'd allow it.

This is true.  Just like concert recording, there are people who can hear/see the difference and people who can't.  When it comes down to it I am archiving the event and I trust myself to do that.  I will get the shots, I will get good poses, and the people who count most will be extreemly happy I was there doing it.

Bring a laptop and make sure you have both CF and SD > USB thingies to transfer the pix over.  That way you can borrow a camera if the opportunity presents itself and copy over the image right there and then.  Also, the coolest thing is to have some kind of slideshow software installed and just keep dumping your pix onto the laptop with it running in a continuous loop for the guests to enjoy....that's always a big crowd pleaser.

Aready planning this!  I have a screen saver program that will just read from a folder.  That way I can pw protect the lappy from the kids, dump my cards, and let people see themselves minutes after the pics are taken.

When it comes time to print them, you can get pretty good 4x6 prints from Target or Walmart, but with the 8x10s I'd recommend going someplace like Art Craft.  It will cost a few bucks, but they do a Digital > Negative transfer (with some cleanup) and then print from a negative and it's supposed to make the digipic MUCH cleaner.  I had them do this for a larger picture of my parents old house all decorated for X-Mas at night...took it with a 1.2MP piece of junk that made the surroundings (from the red lights) look brown instead of black.  This was a few years ago but they transfered and cleaned it up for $12 per 8x10 and they looked AMAZING for such a crappy camera.  My parents still have the pic at their new house and guests always comment on it.

Part of my inintial cost calculation was for this exactly.  I'm a bit color blind for one, and I don't have any highend grafics software so I wouldn't attempt this if I didn't have someone elses eyes on it.  My local specialty camera shop is going to do all the color processing for me.  I will meet with the family and go through each shot on a dvd in their living room with printed thumbnails for notes.  I will do all the croping myself and then have the camera shop do the color ballancing and printing.  They are charging me .69 per 4x6 and about 8.00 per 8x10 including all the color adjustments.  This is actually one of the places I worry about my capabilities so I am happy to have them involved. 
     I also agree that it is amazing what you can do with a lower reso image.  I shot a very professional looking glossy brochure for my company with a 3.2 mp p&s and everyone raved about the quality of the photo's.  I've heard many times that the quality of the photagrapher is far more important than the quality of the gear (often true for audio too).  I'm not saying I'm all-that, but my momma taught me as a boy that I could move mountains and if I set my mind to something I get it done.  I'm not going into this blind... I will spend a lot of time researching and plan on hitting a few wedding between now and then to watch pro's in action.

RAW pictures contain data for every single sesor on your CCM or whatever it is....so if you have a 6 MP camera, it has the data for all 6,000,000+ sensors.  The file size is typically over 20MB per shot.  This is good if you're a professional and going to recolor it and do minute edits, but for most people it's kinda overkill.  Also, before you can look at it, you have to convert it from RAW.  For the MPs you are looking at and the amount of editing you will be doing the RAW option would be like recording with a Ratshack mic help up to a radio and doing it 24-bit   Regular JPG or a mid ranged TIFF file will suffice as it "guesses" on some pixels....if this one is blue and this one is blue, the one in the middle must be blue...and it saves space.  This RAW summary might not be 100% technically accurate, but I was looking into if I needed a RAW camera or not and got this info.

I deally I would like to shoot raw now that I have researched it a bit.  Some camer's I'm looking at shoot raw + jpg (at the same time) which is a good idea IMO.  Do I need it?  no, but it would be a nice feature especially for the formals and some of the other money shots.  I'm sure for all camera's it is a little different but for the A1 these are the file sizes 

File size* (approx.)(2560 x 1920)    RAW: 7.4 MB, TIFF: 14.5 MB, Extra Fine: 4.9 MB, Fine: 2.5 MB, Standard 1.5 MB, Movie: 522 KB / second

in this case the raw is not much larger than the jpg and 1/2 of the tiff.  My biggest concern with the raw is the cropping.  Most of the camera's that shoot raw come with a basic editing program... how they work I don't know yet.  In my perfect world, I can shoot raw, crop, and save as raw for the printer so he can have maximum flexibility in color matching.  However, if I have to shoot jpg, or have the printer do a couple of crops for me it isn't the end of the world.

Now... back to the new gear    Here is how I see it:

With the A1 (I really think this is the best option for a p&s) 
I get a 28-200mm f/2.8 lens
anti shake
5 mp
very respectable af
average noise performance at higher iso's
marginal resolution
easily stay in the $500-550 range with extra batts, media, and hq flash

As for the slr's that are in my range:
some are certainly better than others feature wise
most have far better resolution
lens's tend to be all f/3.5 (kit lenses)
lens's are mostly 18-45mm, 70-200mm or 28-70mm
Most are 6mp but a couple are 8mp
quality at higher iso's are all over the board from crap to awesome
all would require a compromise on the flash (low-end, off-brand tilt head)

So which is the lesser of two evils?

With the slr's I can upgrade glass later and I like that, but the glass in the a1 is pretty good to start with.  I like the idea of having a camera capable of shooting concerts from a bit of a distance... I would get use out of that, but the anti-shake on the minolta will let me shoot down a couple of speeds, which will allow me to lower the iso and it has better zoom and speed right out of the box!  Which is better!

For the wedding I guess I can shoot with a lower powered zoom if I have better resolution because I can crop more.  i.e. an 8 mp camera with a lower power zoom is probably a wash with a camera that is 5-6mp but has a larger zoom.

An slr that has kick ass performance at higher iso's (the rebel 300d is quite good up to 800iso, and not bad at 1600) will be a wash with a camera that has a faster lense.

Better resolution and lower noise at higher iso's will allow me to shoot at faster shutter speeds and this makes the anti-shake less of a big deal

It goes on and on... what to do, what to do.


T's for all who are helping...
Matt

[MattD]

In my perfect world, I can shoot raw, crop, and save as raw for the printer so he can have maximum flexibility in color matching.

The above isn't possible. RAW is not a format that one can save to. It is only created using the data directly from the camera's image sensor(s).

Didn't you recently mention being wordy?

[mmmatt]

In my perfect world, I can shoot raw, crop, and save as raw for the printer so he can have maximum flexibility in color matching.

The above isn't possible. RAW is not a format that one can save to. It is only created using the data directly from the camera's image sensor(s).

Didn't you recently mention being wordy?

ha!!!! see what I mean!!!  thanks Matt... that is important info to know.  I'm impressed you actually read it all!

Matt

[mmmatt]

As I'm sitting here thinking about all of this.  it just occured to me that financialy and feature wise that konica-minolta A1 p&s is really what I need with the possible exception of resolution.  Since they are pretty dirt cheap, and they sell quite often on ebay.  I think I will just buy one and take it to the church in question, take a few shots, have them printed and see exactly how they look.  If I don't like the quality or how the camera works I'll just put it back on ebay and probably only loose a few bucks on the deal.  Otherwise I'm going to go nuts trying to weigh all these pros and cons!!!
    I'll post some shots and get some opinions here when I have some samples.

Matt

[dgodwin]

don't forget to bring some stand-in's with you, so you can get a good idea of the lighting.  Shooting in an empty church is creepy anyways...

[mmmatt]

don't forget to bring some stand-in's with you, so you can get a good idea of the lighting.  Shooting in an empty church is creepy anyways...

Yeah... I'll bring a friend or two.  Actually I have a couple of gorgeous female friends I would love to photograph, so this may be a good excuse.  I may just invite myself to a couple of weddings in the church between now and then and get a few shots from my seat w/o flash.  May crash a reception or 2 also  .  I want to watch a couple of pro's doing their thing.  I have been in and seen a number of weddings, but I haven't really payed much attention to the photagrapher for a few years.

Matt

[Ed.]

It might be worth it to join the www.fredmiranda.com message board and check out the wedding photography forum.  Could give you some ideas for shots and whatnot at the wedding.  I also like www.dgrin.com - another photography message board, that reminds me a bit of this place, only with photos instead of taping.

[mmmatt]

thanks ed.  +T

Matt