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Author Topic: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!  (Read 6173 times)

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Offline russellhodgson

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New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« on: November 20, 2006, 09:52:24 PM »
Hello everyone... I'm new to this forum and I want to get into taping and video recording live music... I don't own any equipment yet.. But I want to get some... I need some advice.. well on everything.. But I would like to know what Camcorder I should get and recommendations to record audio... Preferably some equipment ideas that go well together.. What type of Camcorders are best?

Thanks,

Russell

Offline caymanreview

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2006, 03:23:41 AM »
first things first, budget

Offline guysonic

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2006, 07:36:03 AM »
Hello everyone... I'm new to this forum and I want to get into taping and video recording live music... I don't own any equipment yet.. But I want to get some... I need some advice.. well on everything.. But I would like to know what Camcorder I should get and recommendations to record audio... Preferably some equipment ideas that go well together.. What type of Camcorders are best?

Thanks,

Russell

Panasonic seems to consistently provide superior audio quality and audio features in their cameras as compared to Sony/Canon.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

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Offline russellhodgson

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2006, 03:19:45 PM »
Well.. Budget.... Hmmm.. 2000 ish I dunno... Maybe more.. I can afford more if required.. I want decent equipment.. How much should I budget for this???Less??? More???

Offline russellhodgson

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2006, 05:10:08 PM »
I was looking at the Panasonic 3CCD camcorder's... I see that some of them have the ability to plug in a Mic... I think... But they have no way to monitor the volume due to not having an earphone jack... So what should I do now??? I heard these camcorders are great for recording due to their 3ccc capabilities.. What do you guys recommend?? Next question... Once I get a camcorder... Do I plug the mic directly into the camcorder?? Is that the way it works??? Can I put a gain control in between the mic and the camcorder??? Or is this not the way it works?? Do I have to record the sound seperatly???

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2006, 05:56:27 PM »
i don't know much about these things, but i know a lot of this stuff has been discussed here already...have you gone back through older threads in this board?  there are only 5 pages of threads in this board and there is also the search function up top. good luck!

Offline guysonic

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2006, 07:51:11 PM »
Audio quality is at least as important as the video quality. 

For recording decent audio inside the camera, the model chosen really needs external mic jack, AND MANUAL REC level audio with at least clip if not full VU indication feature.  Having High/Low mic input sensitivity settings is also a valuable most feature for pop/rock music recording. With NO VU recording level indication, but with headphone monitoring jack feature, it is possible to monitor live audio quality against overload distortion, or maybe too low a REC level with SEALED IN-EAR phones, but these really need to be fully noise isolating and work best with custom ear molds that fit you perfectly.  Phones like this are several hundred dollars when fully outfitted like suggested.

Cameras with some or all needed mic input/monitoring features used to start at ~$2000, but times are changing and maybe possible to find new models for less.  I haven't done research for several years so maybe lower costing models are now available?  General discussion about video audio camera features at:
www.sonicstudios.com/videomic.htm

Problem with Sony/Canon, and maybe Samsung(?) is as they start to supply prosumer or high end consumer models with these needed audio features, the audio quality of low distortion, low noise, and flat extended 20-20,000 cycle bandwidth requirement is mostly lacking, except for Panasonic models that at least in the past have treated audio quality with the most respect.

The tact most people have found most workable with video audio is to purchase cameras with most affordable/desirable video quality/features, and leave the audio to a dedicated audio deck. 

This allows buying a smaller size, far less expensive camera with excellent video features of any make, later adding the audio deck recorded audio as resource in the first rough edit that syncs the lousy camera-mic'd audio to the high quality deck recorded audio into the timeline.  The camera mic audio is then removed from the timeline leaving the high quality audio sync'd to the raw video. 

Separate video/audio decks also allows for the audio track to be continuous even if camera footage/views are altered or not continuous for artistic reasons.

Also allows the audio mic/deck to be placed at the best sound reception position inside the venue, and frees the camera perspective to be optimized for getting the best practical visuals as requirements for most interesting video and quality live mic'd audio are often not the same.

Your choice of camera model needs be researched for having adequate video features, but suggest for audio using the R-09 SD flash deck at 16/24bit, 48K wav with external preamplifier.  My company makes high quality stereo-surround mic+preamp configurations for R-09 reviewed at:
www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 07:59:28 PM by guysonic »
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Offline firmdragon

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2006, 08:58:28 PM »
Well.. Budget.... Hmmm.. 2000 ish I dunno... Maybe more.. I can afford more if required.. I want decent equipment.. How much should I budget for this???Less??? More???

well sheeeeit. now we're talking. i'd recommend going w/ the sony vx2100.  will set you back ~2200. but worth every penny if you've ever seen footage from these cams. like all cams, you'll need to get an external mic.

Offline sullen

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2006, 03:37:14 PM »
panasonic pv-gs500!!!

<3
don't > care > to > list > gear > in > signature

Offline russellhodgson

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2006, 04:53:38 PM »
Yeah.. That sony is crazy! Wow! But I think that I will choose something a little less fancy for my first Camcorder... Is there any other camcorders that offer earphone and mic in capabilities? I want to be able to control the level of the audio recording!

Offline beefstew

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2006, 08:41:22 PM »
Yeah.. That sony is crazy! Wow! But I think that I will choose something a little less fancy for my first Camcorder... Is there any other camcorders that offer earphone and mic in capabilities? I want to be able to control the level of the audio recording!

audio is least important when it comes to video

if audio is so important to you - run separate mics into a minidisc or something and dub it over the video later
*Audio*
Mics:
SP-CMC-19
Panasonic WM61a

Recorders:
MZ-RH910 (Hi-MD)
Sony TC-WE435 (CASS)

*Video*
Canon ZR-500 [Mini DV]
54" Tripod

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2006, 09:09:46 PM »
Yeah.. That sony is crazy! Wow! But I think that I will choose something a little less fancy for my first Camcorder... Is there any other camcorders that offer earphone and mic in capabilities? I want to be able to control the level of the audio recording!

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Offline russellhodgson

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2006, 10:19:53 AM »
Are there any Camcorders that have internal hardrives which have a mic in and or headphones around the 1000 dollar price range?

Offline guitard

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2006, 09:09:15 AM »
Are there any Camcorders that have internal hardrives which have a mic in and or headphones around the 1000 dollar price range?
There are several models with harddrives coming out - but you can only record in mpeg2 or some other compressed video format.  The day they come out with a harddrive model that can record in DV - I'll be the first one in line to buy it.
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Offline tapeheadtoo

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Re: New Guy!!! Need advice!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2006, 09:38:08 AM »
I have recently been doing the double... Filming and running a separate audio rig.  I haven't learned yet how to sync the audio and video, but that's my next project.  In the meantime, I'm settling for the audio capture from the onboard mic. I'm using a Panasonic PV-GS120.  The picture quality with the 3ccds is awesome.  I'm currently waiting on a preamp from Church Audio.  I'll be able to insert the preamp between my HEB mics and the camcorder, so I can use the (better) external mics and get manual gain control (defeat the AGC). 
Mics: Schoeps MK4, DPA 4061, AT953, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY, SP-SPSB-10
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 10/11; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

 

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