Topic: relatively affordable headphone amp/ADC?

[achalsey]

With christmas coming up and having finally gone forward with fixing my headphones (re-cable very nicely done by Ted) I'm looking into getting them powered right.

I'm using an older version Beyer DT 770 pro 80 ohm and pretty much always plugged into my (2010) macbook.  Not really sure where to start.  I looked through some google searches that brought me to the FiiO e7 but it seems like the bass might be over powering.  Any way to improve the chain after the stock sound card?  I thought I remember seeing a listing for a amp/external sound combo but can't seem to find it again.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

[page]

price range?

I found a DAC was the biggest bang for buck in improving the signal:noise ratio when using low impedance and high(ish) sensitivity headphones. So I'd look at a combo unit.

I have the e9 which is just the amp section, but I don't have the e7.

[gkatz]

Once again, I will fluff the Topping TP30 -- I got it for 90$ from this website http://www.hifidiyshop.com/topping-tp30-class-t-digital-amplifier-usb-dac-ta2024_p221.html?zenid=ac72e91e662526a7d19c51b2697c88df  It took about 2 weeks to arrive. It works great with my 64 ohm Sennheiser HD280 pro's and also powers my 75 watt bookshelf speakers just fine with the 15 watts per channel specified. It has a USB connection which I can succesfully kernel stream at 16/48 through foobar. It also has RCA auxiliary inputs for a CD/Tape/Ipod what have you.

Chuck here on taperssection has one as well. THe only problem I have had was some static caused by the volume knob, nothing some DeOxit wouldn't fix.

[achalsey]

I was hoping to find something for 100 or under since it'll be this and a pair of C4 hypers hopefully under the tree.   

That Topping does look pretty sweet.  THanks!

[jbell]

Did you get both your C4's working??

I was hoping to find something for 100 or under since it'll be this and a pair of C4 hypers hopefully under the tree.   

That Topping does look pretty sweet.  THanks!

[page]

I was hoping to find something for 100 or under since it'll be this and a pair of C4 hypers hopefully under the tree.   

That Topping does look pretty sweet.  THanks!

That or an ibasso unit. I know BigPerm just got one for about that price.

[achalsey]

Did you get both your C4's working??

Its just one of the card caps thats making a funny noise, bodies seem to work fine with the omnis.

[achalsey]

That or an ibasso unit. I know BigPerm just got one for about that price.

Oooh, been reading up on the D-Zero reviews, also very interesting.  Thanks.

[acidjack]

Here's a vote on what NOT to get: The Firestone Audio FUBAR IV.  I bought one, based on a rec from here, and it is garbage.  Less than 1yr old and has serious grounding issue.  Chinese junk, so not easy to get serviced.  I love the Toslink and USB inputs and the form factor, but the interference caused every time I even touch the volume knob has gotten really, really annoying.  Too bad as it would otherwise be a nice solution.

[page]

Here's a vote on what NOT to get: The Firestone Audio FUBAR IV.  I bought one, based on a rec from here, and it is garbage.  Less than 1yr old and has serious grounding issue.  Chinese junk, so not easy to get serviced.  I love the Toslink and USB inputs and the form factor, but the interference caused every time I even touch the volume knob has gotten really, really annoying.  Too bad as it would otherwise be a nice solution.

(whew, for a minute i thought it was something I'd suggested)

There is a lot of chinese junk floating around....

In my experience and what I've seen on head-fi, the ibasso stuff is generally pretty good as is audio-gd. I liked my ibasso D10 when I had it. There are some ibasso units which fit within $100 or are close, but the audio-gd repository is generally in the $300 range (but works with much more then just low-impedance, high-sensitivity stuff).

A general word of warning. Most cheap USB implementations are limited to 16/48, while better stuff can handle 24 bit outputs. Since your using a macbook, grab something that handles optical-in if possible as the DAC chips are rarely limited to 16bit. best of luck.

[acidjack]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

[page]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

look at the sub-500 audio-gd (global delivery I think is what the abbreviation stands for). They have some quirky names for their models, but those get a lot of praise. I'm not sure I'd pick one of their >$500 models though. Not that it's bad, just I think there is better stuff for what I'm interested at that point.

Another one to consider is Schiit Audio (pronounced as in the cow patty), which is a new American outfit that people seem fond of. Their Asgard model is solid state and might be of interest but I think you would need a DAC where as the audio-gd stuff is a mixed bag in that realm.

Both companies trend toward desktop amp/dacs and are generally boutique operations that have been responsive to the head-fi community.

[kindms]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

I own the audio-gd FUN and love it!. I have had it for a year or 2 now. I use it daily. I have the older unit which was limited to 16/48 on the USB. The new version does 24/96 on the USB. Has toslink and coax in as well. DAC out, Pre-Amp out etc. 2 gain types as well. I use mine as just a DAC. No remote. You can mix and match chips etc that they offer on the site.

I had no problems dealing with them in China and the unit was delivered quickly.

[acidjack]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

I own the audio-gd FUN and love it!. I have had it for a year or 2 now. I use it daily. I have the older unit which was limited to 16/48 on the USB. The new version does 24/96 on the USB. Has toslink and coax in as well. DAC out, Pre-Amp out etc. 2 gain types as well. I use mine as just a DAC. No remote. You can mix and match chips etc that they offer on the site.

I had no problems dealing with them in China and the unit was delivered quickly.

Looks like a nice product, but that website inspires zero confidence.  Is there anything comparable that's US-made?  Other than the Grace 902/903, which is looking increasingly attractive...?

[page]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

I own the audio-gd FUN and love it!. I have had it for a year or 2 now. I use it daily. I have the older unit which was limited to 16/48 on the USB. The new version does 24/96 on the USB. Has toslink and coax in as well. DAC out, Pre-Amp out etc. 2 gain types as well. I use mine as just a DAC. No remote. You can mix and match chips etc that they offer on the site.

I had no problems dealing with them in China and the unit was delivered quickly.

Looks like a nice product, but that website inspires zero confidence.  Is there anything comparable that's US-made?  Other than the Grace 902/903, which is looking increasingly attractive...?

yeah, I know. it's ugly as sin, but their stuff is well regarded over at head-fi.

If that isn't your cup of tea, an idea I just thought of would then be the schiit asgard and use your usbpre2 as the DAC with the aux outs. I did that with my fiio e9 for a while when I was using headphones which were low impedance and high sensitivity (because the usbpre2's headphone jack hisses when paired with high sensitivity phones).

I actually get more use from my usbpre2 as an audio interface/dac/headamp then I do in the field as a recording preamp/adc. It's the best DAC I had at my disposal (versus the onboard laptop, the zero 192, an ibasso D10, and even better than the Grace 901), and it's not a slouch. I'm not sure it would trump the DAC section of a newer 902 or 903 which have upgraded DAC stages compared to the original 901, but you already own a usbpre2 so the cost is vastly different compared to a 902/903... 

There are two reasons I didn't pick up the Asgard. First was that my current headphones (the Audeze LCD-2) are a lowish impedance but require gobs and gobs of current to drive, the two conditions that SD says are optimum for using the headphone stage of the usbpre2 (low impedance and low sensitivity). The LCD-2s are pitch black quiet with the usbpre2, but I catch the same hiss like others have reported with my Denon 7000s. Second, I already had the fiio which while not my favorite piece of gear, performs well with my Denons for the price I paid. If I didn't have the fiio, I probably would have baught one.

[acidjack]

I would much prefer to use the USBpre2 as both a DAC/Headamp if I could get away with it... I wonder what other headphones might not have the hiss problems with it....

[ethan]

Thanks for this thread. I was just thinking about how I can properly monitor from my laptop. The iBasso's look interesting to me.


Would love to pick up that D12 Anaconda just about everyting one would need.

Anyone know what's the advantage of Dual DAC chips ?

So you plug these in to the USB and it presents itself as a sound card to the computer?

[page]

So you plug these in to the USB and it presents itself as a sound card to the computer?

yeah, basically. I like using the optical out so I don't have to fiddle with selecting a soundcard or stuff like that, but the premises is basically the same.

I would much prefer to use the USBpre2 as both a DAC/Headamp if I could get away with it... I wonder what other headphones might not have the hiss problems with it....

That was totally my aim, but I couldn't stand the hiss so I always used an outboard amp until I got my LCD-2s. A general gist on keeping low-impedance but low-sensitivity is looking for orthodynamics instead of straight dynamic coil headphones. Audeze, HifiMan, and maybe one other make nice ortho cans, it's really a niche product anymore. Otherwise most low impedance cans are also fairly sensitive, and SD says the usbpre2 doesn't play as well with high impedance cans. While orthos are not a guarantee, it's a good indication that they will need lots of current and thats part of the problem with the usbpre2; it has an over abundance of current. Also, look for an impedance over 40ohm and under 100, thats the other thing. Anything under 32ohm and I suspect you start to get the hiss. This is all ballpark stuff, nothing hard and fast.

Having an outboard amp wouldn't be bad, I'll admit, I'm still tempted by the schiit asgard.

headphone.com has response graphs** that you can get a guage of how bright/dark something will sound as long as you can rationalize the graph they have for your own headphones.

** IME, they are approximate. More of a guideline but they can still be informative.

[kindms]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

I own the audio-gd FUN and love it!. I have had it for a year or 2 now. I use it daily. I have the older unit which was limited to 16/48 on the USB. The new version does 24/96 on the USB. Has toslink and coax in as well. DAC out, Pre-Amp out etc. 2 gain types as well. I use mine as just a DAC. No remote. You can mix and match chips etc that they offer on the site.

I had no problems dealing with them in China and the unit was delivered quickly.

Looks like a nice product, but that website inspires zero confidence.  Is there anything comparable that's US-made?  Other than the Grace 902/903, which is looking increasingly attractive...?

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to do business with them again. I have considered picking up a new FUN and the replacement USB chip for my current unit.

The website is fugly but they responded to emails quickly. although the English was a little rough. I took a chance after reading threads at headfi there was very little if any negative feedback about them so took the chance. But I def. understand the hesitation.

[hi and lo]

I actually get more use from my usbpre2 as an audio interface/dac/headamp then I do in the field as a recording preamp/adc. It's the best DAC I had at my disposal (versus the onboard laptop, the zero 192, an ibasso D10, and even better than the Grace 901), and it's not a slouch. I'm not sure it would trump the DAC section of a newer 902 or 903 which have upgraded DAC stages compared to the original 901, but you already own a usbpre2 so the cost is vastly different compared to a 902/903... 

Hmm... Everything I've heard from users of the USBPre2 is that the DAC/Headphone Amp leave a lot to be desired and I am shocked to hear you say that it is better than an m901 which is pretty much legendary. There are people that still prefer the 901 over the 902 (and presumably the 903).

ymmv... I love my 902, but otherwise my opinions are merely based on anecdote.

[page]

I actually get more use from my usbpre2 as an audio interface/dac/headamp then I do in the field as a recording preamp/adc. It's the best DAC I had at my disposal (versus the onboard laptop, the zero 192, an ibasso D10, and even better than the Grace 901), and it's not a slouch. I'm not sure it would trump the DAC section of a newer 902 or 903 which have upgraded DAC stages compared to the original 901, but you already own a usbpre2 so the cost is vastly different compared to a 902/903... 

Hmm... Everything I've heard from users of the USBPre2 is that the DAC/Headphone Amp leave a lot to be desired and I am shocked to hear you say that it is better than an m901 which is pretty much legendary. There are people that still prefer the 901 over the 902 (and presumably the 903).

ymmv... I love my 902, but otherwise my opinions are merely based on anecdote.

the DAC portion only. The usbpre2's headamp stage has issues in most circumstances.

The headamp stage of the entire 900 series is legendary, I agree (and I miss mine and want another), but the DAC portion in the 901 was meh when I compared the two. Conversely, the DAC chipset in the 901 was almost 10 years old compared to the usbpre2's so I'm not sure it was entirely a fair fight. Grace changed stuff with later revisions but I havn't heard the new models.

There are undoubtably better DACs then the usbpre2, but I don't think it's a slouch, especially if you're on a budget and own one already.

[ethan]

headphone.com has response graphs**

I can't find these graphs on the site. Where are they?

[hi and lo]

I actually get more use from my usbpre2 as an audio interface/dac/headamp then I do in the field as a recording preamp/adc. It's the best DAC I had at my disposal (versus the onboard laptop, the zero 192, an ibasso D10, and even better than the Grace 901), and it's not a slouch. I'm not sure it would trump the DAC section of a newer 902 or 903 which have upgraded DAC stages compared to the original 901, but you already own a usbpre2 so the cost is vastly different compared to a 902/903... 

Hmm... Everything I've heard from users of the USBPre2 is that the DAC/Headphone Amp leave a lot to be desired and I am shocked to hear you say that it is better than an m901 which is pretty much legendary. There are people that still prefer the 901 over the 902 (and presumably the 903).

ymmv... I love my 902, but otherwise my opinions are merely based on anecdote.

the DAC portion only. The usbpre2's headamp stage has issues in most circumstances.

The headamp stage of the entire 900 series is legendary, I agree (and I miss mine and want another), but the DAC portion in the 901 was meh when I compared the two. Conversely, the DAC chipset in the 901 was almost 10 years old compared to the usbpre2's so I'm not sure it was entirely a fair fight. Grace changed stuff with later revisions but I havn't heard the new models.

There are undoubtably better DACs then the usbpre2, but I don't think it's a slouch, especially if you're on a budget and own one already.

Got it! Thanks for the clarification.

[ethan]

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Ibasso D12

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I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Ibasso D12

nice selection, I finally looked and they are billing it as the successor to the D10 (which I really liked when I had one).

Got it! Thanks for the clarification.

ideally, I'd love a lavry da11 > grace 902, but I don't have the cash allocated for that. make do with what you have I guess.

[tim in jersey]

page, do you (or anyone else) have any recs in around the price range of the FUBAR ($350) that are better?

I run MacBook Pro>Toslink>headphone amp.  Externally power via AC adapter.

I'd like something that works that I can "grow" with and ideally has a small footprint; that said, I don't know that I should move to the Grace 902 considering I'm using ATH-M50s as my headphones   

A buddy also told me that there are guys on head.fi that are sort of like our many fine custom manufacturers here and can actually make one of these things for you.  Anyone have any experience with that?

I just picked this up less than a week ago. Haven't put it through it's paces completely but seems pretty nice to my ears so far.

If you are willing to cover shipping/ins. both ways, I'd be willing to loan it to you so you can demo it yourself.

[ethan]

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Ibasso D12

w00t...arrives today

[ethan]

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Ibasso D12

w00t...arrives today

Played with it yesterday. Works great. I did find it interesting that I still prefer the D50 Headphone pre more than D50 opti > Ibasso D12 but the D12 absolutely kills the head phone out on my HP dv5 laptop. Which is the main reason I got it.

I read about the D12 and opamp rolling but had no idea they sent you 3 addition opamps with it 

Can't wait to try them all. They also sent extra case screws, high quality opti/usb cables, an toslink to mini adapter and additional analog headphone/aux connectors in case one breaks....very impressed.

[ethan]

Another use in the field I came up with is to monitor my stage mics when doing a matrix.

I can take the RCA out of my V2 into the D12 to hear what my stage mics sound like pre-mix.

-e

[acidjack]

I think I may give the iBasso a go as well... seems like less hassle than doing USBPre2 + schiit Asgard esp since I do actually use the USBPre2 as a pre a fair amount.   Unless the Schitt sounds THAT much better than the iBasso...

The FUBAR IV I have is almost completely shot.... tons of static every time I turn the knob.  Pathetic workmanship.  Too bad as it actually sounded good until this problem occurred.

[page]

headphone.com has response graphs**

I can't find these graphs on the site. Where are they?

wicked sorry, I just realized I missed this comment earlier.

It's burried on their site, here's a direct link. Take their stuff with a gain of salt, I've got a factory response plot for my LCD-2 and it's different in the 1.5k region and 11k region but it's the same under 1khz. It's a nice way to get an idea of how something might sound.

[ethan]

headphone.com has response graphs**

I can't find these graphs on the site. Where are they?

wicked sorry, I just realized I missed this comment earlier.

It's burried on their site, here's a direct link. Take their stuff with a gain of salt, I've got a factory response plot for my LCD-2 and it's different in the 1.5k region and 11k region but it's the same under 1khz. It's a nice way to get an idea of how something might sound.

No worries I finally found them.

[jbou]

Has anyone used the FiiO E10? It seems to have gotten better reviews than the E7 and nuForce USB DAC. Its only $80. I'm looking for something in the ~$100 range.

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I didn't think the fiio dac worked without their amp.

[jbou]

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B005VO7LG6

Its this one. It has a usb input on the back and the headphones plug in on the front. There is also a coax output on the back. It is a DAC and a headphone amp

[page]

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E10-USB-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B005VO7LG6

Its this one. It has a usb input on the back and the headphones plug in on the front. There is also a coax output on the back. It is a DAC and a headphone amp

gotcha, I'm thinking of the older one. The E7/E9 combo (the line-out on the E7 is funny like that).