Topic: opinions on playback idea

[alienbobz]

I think I am ready to upgrade my playback system. I have been using the Dell Surround System for about a year and a half and I really can't stand the sound anymore. I have started making 24 bit recordings, and I have a bunch of 24 bit shows sitting on my computer so right now I just want a basic nice sounding setup. I am thinking about this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7136002&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat40200050004&id=1110263641433

Read some reviews on amazon about it and it sounds like the type of unit I want. Right now I can't get the big speakers or nice tubes. I also have a limit of $500 I want to spend on my playback. I am also planning to buy a new soundcard that can handle 24/192. Is this a good system? What would you recommend with my limit? Any help would be great .

[Nick Culbreth]

I don't have any experience with this setup but I think you'll get more bang for your buck by focusing on a two channel setup instead.  I'd start off with a set of monitors or bookshelf speakers and build your system around them.  A set of headphones and a headphone amp might be a good option as well.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Nick gives good advice about going 2ch.  Most of the surround systems, like that sony or the bose, will initially sound acceptable but over time you will find that they can't really perform at the level of a good 2-ch system that images properly.  Those systems are engineered to provide a certain level of volume through 5 channels for the average family who wants to dabble in HT on a budget.   Take your 24-bit and a 16-bit source into the store and see if the demo system will reveal the difference between the two sources before you buy it.   

If your end goal is to build a surround sound system, you might consider finding a line of speakers that you like and buying the monitors in that line.  Get a decent SS amp to drive them.  Later when you have more cash, you can get another amp and full sized speakers for the front channels.  That allows you to get in now for the most reasonable price and then build on that base - the monitors and amp you buy now can be used for the rear channels later and you'll have a well integrated system.

here are some sample monitors:
B&W: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1137057242
VSA: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1136830197
Quads: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1136771395

for inexpensive amps:
hafler: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1137044788 (I had one, sounded good and there are lots of mods)
adcom: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1137002198 (I've used it's big brother - decent amp)

I'm sure others here will have other ideas for affordable monitors and amps.

I have heard the VSA and B&W stuff.  I know they are a little more than you wanted to spend.  Either of those will be monitors that you won't out grow for a very long time and you can get the matching fronts later.   I never heard the quads but they get good reviews if they are the ones I think they are.

If you can be patient, wait and save a few more dollars. Then you can get a pair of excellent monitors and a reasonable SS amp that will be a better long term investment.  If you spend $500 on a system like that from best buy, there is no resale value and no upgrade path.  It depends on what you ultimately want but if you've already started down the 24-bit road I think you'll be happier in the long run with the better 2-ch system.

[bagtagsell]

Last year I bought my wife a surround sound setup for her birthday 

Well it blew away my previous system, and I was mesmorized by it for months....And now I am looking to upgrade.  Lesson learned.  Focus on 2 channels. 

I really dig Klipsch stuff.  I am not a big hi-fi guy, but compared to what i have now they sound great.

[alienbobz]

So is it pretty much get the sound card, get the sound system/amp, then get the speakers? If so, then what should I go with? I don't need a surround sound system so two speakers are fine. I have tried to read this forum before but I always get confused. I think if I want to go over 500 than I will need to make this an investment that I will buy one piece at a time, but I would perfer under so I could get all at once.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Those surround systems definitely have a place in the market.  My folks have a system like that and they love it.   If you bought your wife a surround system, you might get perpetual 2-ch upgrades because your stereo will still have fewer channels than her system ;-)

A buddy just bought some kipsch speakers from audiogon and he loves them.  He brought them over and we payed with them a while.  They sounded really good.

[alienbobz]

What Klipsch monitors would you recommend?

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I think if I want to go over 500 than I will need to make this an investment that I will buy one piece at a time, but I would perfer under so I could get all at once.

Exactly.  Think of it as an investment.   Buy good gear at a low price and at upgrade time, you won't have trouble selling it for your cost to fund your upgrade.  Personally, I'd rather save the extra money than buy one piece now and the next piece in 6 months.  Watching that one piece sit idle would be painful and in 6 months other/better deals will float by.  For every deal I missed, there were at least two that came along later.

It took me a long time to learn patience with this stuff but I'm glad I did.  I usually research and try to audition other peoples gear.  When I know what I want and the price I can afford, I watch audiogon twice a day or more often and I wait for the deal.  Almost everything in my rack was purchased at about 15% less than the going rate at the time I bought because I saved up and had cash ready when a motivated seller popped up.  The other thing to do is to watch and if a piece you want is about to expire without being sold, make an offer that you feel is fair but within your budget.  No loss if your offer gets rejected but if your offer is accepted you get a good deal. I just got another amp by waiting a few months.  No deal came around so I sent an offer on an amp that was 1 day from expiring.  I saved about 7% plus shipping.  From watching past sales, I know the offer was low but fair.   So if either those B&W or VSA monitors don't sell at $700, offer the seller $590.  I know I've seen those VSAs go for around $600, but very rarely and very quickly.

If you can't wait and must come in at $500, I'd recommend putting more money towards a better amp and get some passable speakers.  If you get decent speakers and a crappy amp, you are more likely to damage the speakers.   Get a better amp now and it will be high enough quality to use with upgraded speakers.

(edited because part was unreadable)

 

What Klipsch monitors would you recommend?

I don't have the experience to recommend any of them.  My buddy's speakers were towers and those are the only Klipsch I've heard.

[nickgregory]

I would also recommend a set of Tannoys as reasonably priced speakers that sound fantastic.  I have a set of the Mercury M3 floorstanding and they sound fantastic.  Scott Brown has a set of their monitors that he got at a steal that sound great as well

[alienbobz]

How about Polk? I can get a pair of M4s for cheap.

[zowie]

You CAN get big, and good, speakers.  The Athena FS-2.2.  I have a pair of the prior model (FS-2).  I have never heard anything that can TOUCH them at $400 a pair new.  You do not need to add a sub for music listening.  You do not need to budget in extra money for stands (which you must if you go with the monitors others are suggesting).  They are a good choice for live concert tapes because they go loud and are full range.  They image acceptably - a feat for a cheap full range floorstanders.   I currently have about 7 different sets of speakers in the house, several much more expensive, and in the past I've owned >$5k speakers and I still can't get over the sound that the Athenas offer for that kind of money.

To stay under $500, pick up a used Denon or Yamaha integrated amp for $100 to get yourself going until you can afford better amplification (although you may decide you're perfectly satisfied with what you've got - they don't suck).

I have not listened to Polk, Tannoy or Klipsch in a number of years but when I last did I can tell you that I didn't like what I heard AT ALL.  The best I could say was that they didn't offer good sound value for the money.  But they're come out with new models since then, so I'm not in a position to say to avoid those.

[zowie]

Read some reviews on amazon about it and it sounds like the type of unit I want. Right now I can't get the big speakers or nice tubes. I also have a limit of $500 I want to spend on my playback. I am also planning to buy a new soundcard that can handle 24/192. Is this a good system? What would you recommend with my limit? Any help would be great .

DON'T TRUST AUDIO REVIEWS ON AMAZON or a lot of other consummer reviews.  You're reading reviews written by people with no frame of reference and who are enamored with their new toys.  Some of them are written by teenagers who never heard anything other than their $20 computer speakers or portable CD player with stock $2 earbuds, or older people with no interest in audio who were forced to replace their 1980 Sears stereo because it broke.  Notice that almost all of the reviews are glowing except when the product is defective or doesn't serve the reviewer's purpose?  I'm sure they are well-meaning, but they will not help you in finding the best affordable gear.

I haven't heard the system referenced in your first post, but I note that it offers five speakers, including a "sub" and 600 watts of amplification and preamp control for under $200.  C'mon.  How do you think that can possibly sound?  Note the specs:  its 600 watts at 10% THD !!!  That's about the distortion level for 1970s factory car radios fer cryin' out loud.

[pfife]

I concur w/ Zowie.   Also, I think you're going to be hard pressed to have anyone around this forum give a positive endorsement of anything at Best Buy or Circuit City or the like.... (audio gear wise, anyways...with the exception of the Toshiba 4960) - we're a bunch of audio snobs!   

For a lot of the higher priced stuff they carry at those places, you can totally find things that would outperform them for the same amount of money (*cough* Bose *cough*).

If you can, I'd save up a couple more hundred, if possible, and get up into the range of the Sony Nick fluffs + some cheap but efficient bookshelves/monitor speakers to roll with it.  I hate saving money - I am right now for a Denon 2910, and this damn 4960 is killin me.


audiogon.com is your friend... and your vice.   

IF I were you, I'd focus all of my money on a 2channel system, and keep the dell one around for your surround sound/TV stuff.  There are a couple people around here that have sickly expensive 2 channel systems, and a "system in a box" for $100 for their surround system.  Unfortunately, I didn't follow that route long before I discovered this site - and I wish I had.  But, I don't care about 5.1 or any of that stuff - just not my cup o tea.

One more thing - check out Ebay for old classics!  I love my classic marantz, and it only ran me $70!


my $.02 - Good luck +T

[pfife]

I have not listened to Polk, Tannoy or Klipsch in a number of years but when I last did I can tell you that I didn't like what I heard AT ALL. 

Not to defend my own stuff, but I just wanted to note that Polk and Klipsch both have a long history of making some great gear, but recently have gotten into the bigbox store game with some products of lesser quality...  Klipschhorns are pretty cool... 

carry on.

[zowie]

I have not listened to Polk, Tannoy or Klipsch in a number of years but when I last did I can tell you that I didn't like what I heard AT ALL. 

Not to defend my own stuff, but I just wanted to note that Polk and Klipsch both have a long history of making some great gear, but recently have gotten into the bigbox store game with some products of lesser quality...  Klipschhorns are pretty cool... 

carry on.

I was talking about the mass market Klipsch stuff that's come out the last 10 years.  Klipschorns are definitely cool.