Topic: sbd/mic matrix w/ ua-5?? anyone done this yet?

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

i'm thinking of trying this next week as I have a great situation presenting itself at a local bar. i know it's possible, but what are recommendations for mic placement? it's a smallish bar/club that may or may not be crowded. i'd like the aud more for room sound, but would like music too in the background to compliment the sbd. thanks!!

[Brian]

how long are your RCA and xlr cables? long enough to put the microphones in the sweet spot and run the gear by the board?

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

how long are your RCA and xlr cables? long enough to put the microphones in the sweet spot and run the gear by the board?

not necessarily. if i buy some new ones, they will be. hmmm.... maybe some 25 foot xlr's??

[Brian]

yeah, i was getting at the fact that even though you are running a matrix it would still be the best to run your microphones in the sweet spot for a few reasons.

1) better fidelity of music which will yield a better sounding matrix
2) hopefully less crowd chatter.  it's not much of a good matrix if your audience portion is more crowd noise than the music
3) sbd feed might cut out or something for whatever possible reason(slim chance, but it happens).  this way you have a great audience back up.
4) it will sound better
5) it will sound better

good luck!

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

thanks for the info. i was thinking of running a 2nd deck from the sbd or ua-5 just in case of mishap. +T

[Brian]

backatcha.....i hope it turns out well!  When i had the ua5 i tried to run matrixes whenever i could.  the ua5 is an excellent unit for our purposes.  but i think everybody knows that already

[NJFunk]

Also, remember to keep in mind delay.  If your mics are more than 20-25 ft from the stage/PA, delay is an issue.  If the mics are that far away, then keep the mic levels relatively low in the mix (no more than 15-20% of the final mix) so that the mics sound like room reverb rather than echo.  If you can set up mics 20 ft or less from the stage, then you can mix the mics as high as you want in the mix.

[§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥]

Also, remember to keep in mind delay.  If your mics are more than 20-25 ft from the stage/PA, delay is an issue.  If the mics are that far away, then keep the mic levels relatively low in the mix (no more than 15-20% of the final mix) so that the mics sound like room reverb rather than echo.  If you can set up mics 20 ft or less from the stage, then you can mix the mics as high as you want in the mix.

Good deal. Thanks for the info.

[Tony B]

Also, remember to keep in mind delay.  If your mics are more than 20-25 ft from the stage/PA, delay is an issue.  If the mics are that far away, then keep the mic levels relatively low in the mix (no more than 15-20% of the final mix) so that the mics sound like room reverb rather than echo.  If you can set up mics 20 ft or less from the stage, then you can mix the mics as high as you want in the mix.

Good deal. Thanks for the info.

Just a question...what about a dedicated headphone amp? Is the one in the UA5 good enough to let you hear what's really happening in the mix? I only ask because I tried to run a matrix last weekend with a mixpad, and wasn't too happy with the whole thing.

[NJFunk]

Also, remember to keep in mind delay.  If your mics are more than 20-25 ft from the stage/PA, delay is an issue.  If the mics are that far away, then keep the mic levels relatively low in the mix (no more than 15-20% of the final mix) so that the mics sound like room reverb rather than echo.  If you can set up mics 20 ft or less from the stage, then you can mix the mics as high as you want in the mix.

Good deal. Thanks for the info.

Just a question...what about a dedicated headphone amp? Is the one in the UA5 good enough to let you hear what's really happening in the mix? I only ask because I tried to run a matrix last weekend with a mixpad, and wasn't too happy with the whole thing.

That's more a function of the headphones themselves, I think.  I bought a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=qc2_headphones_index&pageName=/home_entertainment/headphones_headsets/index.jsp

They're rediculously expensive, but with the noise cancelling, I can hear a recording mix at the venue while the band is still playing using either my UA-5 or my DA-P1 headphone jack.  Of course, I travel a lot for work (they're perfect for airplane use) and use the headphones for a lot of other things besides matrix taping, too, so I could justify the cost.

[Tony B]

Also, remember to keep in mind delay.  If your mics are more than 20-25 ft from the stage/PA, delay is an issue.  If the mics are that far away, then keep the mic levels relatively low in the mix (no more than 15-20% of the final mix) so that the mics sound like room reverb rather than echo.  If you can set up mics 20 ft or less from the stage, then you can mix the mics as high as you want in the mix.

Good deal. Thanks for the info.

Just a question...what about a dedicated headphone amp? Is the one in the UA5 good enough to let you hear what's really happening in the mix? I only ask because I tried to run a matrix last weekend with a mixpad, and wasn't too happy with the whole thing.

That's more a function of the headphones themselves, I think.  I bought a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=qc2_headphones_index&pageName=/home_entertainment/headphones_headsets/index.jsp

They're rediculously expensive, but with the noise cancelling, I can hear a recording mix at the venue while the band is still playing using either my UA-5 or my DA-P1 headphone jack.  Of course, I travel a lot for work (they're perfect for airplane use) and use the headphones for a lot of other things besides matrix taping, too, so I could justify the cost.

Cool. Either way, I think I'm leaning more toward nabbing a UA-5 for any upcoming matrix opportunities. Where you taping, Steve?

[Swampy]

Also, remember to keep in mind delay.  If your mics are more than 20-25 ft from the stage/PA, delay is an issue.  If the mics are that far away, then keep the mic levels relatively low in the mix (no more than 15-20% of the final mix) so that the mics sound like room reverb rather than echo.  If you can set up mics 20 ft or less from the stage, then you can mix the mics as high as you want in the mix.

Good deal. Thanks for the info.

Just a question...what about a dedicated headphone amp? Is the one in the UA5 good enough to let you hear what's really happening in the mix? I only ask because I tried to run a matrix last weekend with a mixpad, and wasn't too happy with the whole thing.

Ya, I definitely think you should look into some type of iso headphones like the etymotics. If you go the route of the headphone amp w/ regular headphones I think you are taking a huge risk with your hearding getting it over the dB levels of the show...

[balou2]

i'm thinking of trying this next week as I have a great situation presenting itself at a local bar. i know it's possible, but what are recommendations for mic placement? it's a smallish bar/club that may or may not be crowded. i'd like the aud more for room sound, but would like music too in the background to compliment the sbd. thanks!!

Maybe you got what you needed, but I just pulled one of the best tapes I've ever done with mics and a feed.  I ran 2 x Neumann KM184's (DIN, dfc, on stage, 2 feet high), 1 x Nak CM-300/omni stage right, 1 x Nak CM-300/omni stage left, and pulled a two-channel vocal feed from the FOH board.  Ran this to a mixer, then to my t-mod+ UA-5 and it is SWEET!

This was a small room (400 capacity?) so I was able to get crowd presence from my stage mics.  The only difficulty I had with mixing on the fly is the headphone issue discussed above.  My biggest advice would be to make sure you are in a place that allows you to differentiate the between your sources (i.e. AUD and SBD) so you can mix them how you choose.

Regardless, have blast!  I just got my UA-5 t-mod+ from Oade and absolutely LOVE it!
Mike

[Chanher]

everyone's comments have been pretty much right on, I've ran A BUNCH of ua-5 matrices and my experiences have been that mixing through headphones on-the-fly is virtually impossible at all moderate to really loud shows. There's just no way to differentiate between what you're hearing through the phones and what you're hearing from the venue. A headphone amp sounds like a dangerous plan (damage to your hearing). I have never tried noise cancelling headphones, I'd love to pick some up one day, I think that would solve a lot of our problems.

Have you ever heard a board feed from this band? If it's a good full mix of all intruments/vocals then consider running more board than aud. If it's an empty board feed (usually too much vocals and bass/drums) then consider running more aud.

If you don't know what the board feed sounds like you can turn down the rca input monitor all the way and set your mic levels. Then turn phantom power off so you can set your sbd levels. Turn phantom back on and enjoy the show.

[snoknight]

i had the chance to run this in a controlled environment many times i.e.: i ran the board mixes also giving myself a submix out for the matrix. the only issue is that the ua-5 sum's the audio input. i have found my ua-5 to sound hollow unless your microphone gain is in the prime spot, which is quite hot, adding a line in will not work without distortion. in uncontrolled live environments i.e. live where your mostly ending up with xlr, 1/4", or RCA Main outputs from the soundman (by nature not always a good sounding mix) i found that some frequencys had a overdriven effect. bass was distorted, mids muddy, and highs shrill. mixes ar better on a board. I sported for a cheep 50.00 behringer eurorack to test the waters with small dirt cheep products. mixing the board and mics with that and in-putting into the ua-5. after many more uses i found the dirt cheep behringer sounded better than the ua-5 much more open sounding... good to know since i paid a sweet penny for the ua-5... now ive bought a behringer usb board and the proof is in the recordings. it transfers the sound with the same open feel. to get my portability i bought wally world converters and 12v 10 AH lead acid batteries, i can run about 5 hrs...
For what its worth