Topic: Tell me about the Naiant boxes

[Cobiwan]

So I just recently torched my Mini Me and sent it in to be fixed; which got me to thinking about replacement alternatives. I decided to pay Apogee the $175 to fix it (seemed most economical at this point) but was curious as to the pros/cons of a Naiant tiny box or  little box. I don't really know anything about this type of setup. I've spent time already looking  on here but thought it'd be quicker to ask. Can someone explain how it works and what the cost of it is? I don't know a lot about mini xlr or other types of connections other than 3 pin xlrs. Im considering buying KC5 cables soon and was wondering what the difference in this NBob active (or other)>Naiant box set up is in performance, battery needs and cost. Be good to know before I throw down $1200 for KC5s and an ORTF bar. Any input will help so thanks.

[willndmb]

I can't help you much with schoeps but I know you can get it set up to run them as actives.
My tb for example can run any 48v mics, pip mics, and akg actives
They have three levels of fixed gain which is prob the downside IMO vs say a lb where you had adjustable gain. With that said I believe you can get a option now where you can adjust it via a small screwdriver
Newer  tb have the ability to use external power
New boxes use nimh battery instead of li
http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html

[willndmb]

tinyboxes do not have an external power option, and the screwdriver adjustment is only for channel gain offset.

of course Jon is the man so he will correct me if I am wrong, but to clearify by external power I meat to charge the battery vs just the wall plug

[daspyknows]

I use the NBox which is another option to consider. 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

AFAIK, and people can correct me if I'm wrong:

1.  Naiant (Jon) can build you a custom box to your liking and your needs.
2.  I don't think he has perfected the ADC portion of his box.
3.  His products are works of art, and his customer service is impeccable.  That being said, I am always leery of "sole proprietors"...
4.  Your best bet is to contact him directly with your needs and let him quote you a price on a custom box...

Terry

[stevetoney]

AFAIK, and people can correct me if I'm wrong:

1.  Naiant (Jon) can build you a custom box to your liking and your needs.
2.  I don't think he has perfected the ADC portion of his box.
3.  His products are works of art, and his customer service is impeccable.  That being said, I am always leery of "Hobby-ists"...
4.  Your best bet is to contact him directly with your needs and let him quote you a price on a custom box...

Terry

Terry.  Fwiw, Jon isn't a hobbyist.  Naiant is Jons occupation.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

AFAIK, and people can correct me if I'm wrong:

1.  Naiant (Jon) can build you a custom box to your liking and your needs.
2.  I don't think he has perfected the ADC portion of his box.
3.  His products are works of art, and his customer service is impeccable.  That being said, I am always leery of "Hobby-ists"...
4.  Your best bet is to contact him directly with your needs and let him quote you a price on a custom box...

Terry

Jon isn't a hobbyist.  Naiant is Jons occupation.

Not to argue the point, but there have been plenty of people that have offered products with the idea/hope that it would develop into an occupation, even a part-time one.  Some have made it, some have not.  I would say companies like Grace and Sound Devices have made it, others are on their way out (Oade), and others just fell off the face of the earth (JKLabs).

I do hope that Jon is able to find great success in his occupation, but what happens when he moves on?  This uncertainty is what makes me leery... 

Terry

[eman]

I think you want the KCY cable to run Schoeps capsules. That's what I had- single Binder connection to the TB, splits off to two caps. Lost my whole rig- it was awesome. There are plenty of recordings out on Archive and probably some good ones to compare sources. I have another TB running B&K's now, the PFA option where you can run just about any phantom power mic from the TB. The batteries last long enough for most festival days and charge back up very fast. NB- you can't get the ability to run Schoeps caps and regular phantom power in one TB, you have to pick one. I'd go with the Schoeps personally. A pair of MK41s and a pair of MK22s are in my distant future.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

There are many little companies in pro audio that will not survive the death of their founders, even if they have employees.  That doesn't make them hobbyists.

OK.  What shall we call them then???  I don't see the point of this debate:  what to call a business person such as yourself.

The point of my "leeryness" is that if you decide to change professions tomorrow, I may not be able get my Naiant product serviced in 10 years.  With a "bigger" pro-audio company, there is perhaps a "better" chance of getting service.  After seeing highly regarded people who offered highly regarded products fall off the face of the earth, I am leery of those kinds of producers (whatever we decide to call them).

I'm sorry if I paint you with an over-sized brush Jon; I tried to qualify the statement...

Terry

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Apologies to Jon.  I didn't mean to make him out as some Hack working out of his basement.  He does run a very tight ship. 

I think my own experiences with gear-makers has made me wary...  I shouldn't let that overshadow the actual opinion I have of Jon's products:  they are awesome and well worth the price-point.

Peace!

Terry

[spybo]

FWIW....Jon ( and Chris at CA for that matter )...offer great "current" use/design/tech products and they offer it with great build quality...great sales and service ( in my experience with them ) and they have built up a solid reputation doing this....
I used to run DAT and MD....where are they now?...try getting those decks easily repaired/serviced...SONY would have no hesitation in "cutting" all service supplies if it didn't fit the business model...and their products cost much more.
At least I can ask Jon or Chris a question, it will be answered and I could afford an upgrade coz their stuff is so reasonably priced....or a repair if I really neede a fix
So appreciate the little guys more...without them there surely would not be the gradual evolution of great products that we now have access to and enjoy!

[tooldvn]

and others just fell off the face of the earth (JKLabs).

Grrrr.. that guy ran off with my cash and an AD-20 I sent him to mod.   

I'll still trust the "sole proprietors" here because they make good products for a good price.   

[Phil Zone]

I never worry about Jon packing up and leaving. To me he seems as though every product he makes he is more dedicated and always looking to improve. Also he just opened his store so you know he will be around for a long time.

I think he has a son too, make he will train him to be as good or maybe better than him!

Lastly it's not like Jon charges thousands of dollars for his products, that are well priced. So even if he did for some reason retire, it shouldn't be a heart breaker.

I love naiant and I wouldn't put my mics though anything and be as happy as I am.

And I'm sorry I can't really answer much about the real answer but I wanted to say what was on my mind.

[tooldvn]

Comedy gold Jon!       Glad you will use the lotto money for such hilarious results and glad you won't be going anywhere. ;-)

[dnsacks]

Back to the OP's question -- the Tinybox in my schoeps setup replaces both the CMC6 bodies and a mic pre, delivering an unbalanced line level signal to my sony M10 recorder (or your MiniMe).  I have a relatively unique setup that the OP might want to consider.  I purchased a pair of stock kc5 cables and had ts.com member dark train cut them around 18" from the collettes that would screw onto the cmc bodies.  He then inserted a pair of mini-xor connectors so that I could use the KC5 cables as designed with cmc6 (etc.) mic bodies.  I also had him make an 18" adaptor cable that plugged into the mini xlrs on the capsule end of the kc5 and terminated into the same binder connection used by a kcy cable.  This allows me to use my modified kc5s as designed OR to use the modified kc5s to feed my tiny box. 

Food for thought, as this leaves me with a few different alternatives (I also have another adaptor cable that can be plugged into the KC5 that terminates into a full sized xlr with Naiant's pfa circuitry included.  This allows me to plug my mk4>kc5 cable combo directly into a preamp that provides phantom power and run the Mk4/Kc5 combo without bodies.

[Cobiwan]

I like this idea dnsacks. Was also considering that for the price of new KC5s. I could buy KCY cable and a tinybox. But the modified KC5 that allows tinybox and cmc6 operation sounds very sweet, as does the adapter to bypass bodies all together. Do you recall the cost of said modifications and cable adapters?

[adrianf74]

Thanks for your (funny) words, Jon.  I needed a good laugh this evening. 

I've dealt with both Chris (at CA) and Jon and, ultimately, have absolutely ZERO regrets in dealing with either of them.  I'd sent my gear back to Jon for investigation back in December and it took a little longer than I'd hoped for, however, I understand he's a single person.  It ultimately took longer, as well, because I got nailed in the lithium battery debacle.  Again, I'm not upset by this; it happens.  Jon (and Chris) both have very impressive products available and I'm happy to see that Jon said he'll release schematics, etc., when it's time to move on.  But that's just how these two guys roll.  I hardly think they're comparable to Oade, either, in that they're here for some time to come.

[Cobiwan]

So here is my train of thought; I'm gonna be adding some new gear to the equation by end of summer (hopefully by Labor Day weekend).
You can see my current rig setup under my post; and I know, its quite the wishlist I'm putting together here.
If I were to get MK41 capsules, KC5 cables and have them modified like dnsacks has suggested above,
get said adapter cable to bypass cmc6 bodies, PFAs, a Naiant tiny box, as well as get a DR-100mkII; I should be able to run 2 rigs at the same time on the same stand (or OTS and FOB); yes?
Example:
Schoeps MK41>KC5 (mod) >PFA > Tinybox >HD-P2
and
Schoeps cmc6+MK4 > Apogee Mini Me > DR-100mkII
Does this look right? Am I missing something?
This would be my dream rig and considering I'm not married/involved and have no kids, I can make this happen.
Please let me know any suggestions.

[stevetoney]

There's some implication in this thread that Oade has gone away just like JKLabs.  That's not true.  Oade is highly reliable and has been around for decades.  Furthermore, he's still servicing the gear that he designed and sold 30 or more years ago. 

[Scooter123]

Jon gave me a good price on a box with enough power and actives to power Schoeps mk4.  My thought is these boxes last 5 years+ and there is a enough of a market that the market place will either make a new box or Jon or someone else will be around to fix it.

That being said, my other box is an NBox, which has been around in various forms for what 20 years?  So I just bought a second one as a back up.  I think I'm good for another 20 years. 

I will say Jon's boxes are smaller and have better battery life.  Sonically, I have not compared them, but the NBox is A+.  Size and battery life are not a big consideration for me, given the size of the NBox. 

[dnsacks]

I like this idea dnsacks. Was also considering that for the price of new KC5s. I could buy KCY cable and a tinybox. But the modified KC5 that allows tinybox and cmc6 operation sounds very sweet, as does the adapter to bypass bodies all together. Do you recall the cost of said modifications and cable adapters?

TS.com member darktrain did the KC5 mods for me and created the binder adaptor that plugs into my tiny box.  Jon @ Naiant built the PFAs that plug into the modified KC5s.

I'm not recalling exact costs for the mods but believe that total cost from darktrain for the kc5 mods and binder adaptor were under $100 and Jon's PFAs similarly ran under $100

I was able to pick my KC5s up used for under $600 a pair -- I'd strongly recommend keeping an eye on the used market for these.

Another option would be to go with the followingbob active cables  -- although you'd lose the ability to run these with your cmc 6 bodies (following bob hasn't machined the collettes to mount onto the cmc bodies), given your desire to run 2 rigs simultaneously, this might be another good alternative.

 

[willndmb]

There are so many schoeps options its overwhelming to me
I can't keep track of the different ways to run them
KCY
Kc5
Nbox
Tb
Nbob
Cmr
Vms or something

[gormenghast]

There are so many schoeps options its overwhelming to me
I can't keep track of the different ways to run them
KCY
Kc5
Nbox
Tb
Nbob
Cmr
Vms or something

Add PFAs and you can add to the list all 48v pres and decks.

[cd2go]

There's some implication in this thread that Oade has gone away just like JKLabs.  That's not true.  Oade is highly reliable and has been around for decades.  Furthermore, he's still servicing the gear that he designed and sold 30 or more years ago.

Agreed; just had my 661 warm modded and sensitivity lowered. Doug has always been responsive and helpful the 3 or 4 times I've dealt with him 

[rjp]

I have a V1 Littlebox dating to November 2010, and it has been nothing but outstanding. Same goes for my pair of X-X mics from September 2012. They have been solid performers every time I've used them.

That being said, I have no experience with the Tinybox, but based on Jon's track record, I'd consider it a slam dunk (though it seems more oriented towards full stealth rather than open/semi-open taping). I personally like having easily-adjustable pots on each channel, so the Littlebox fills my needs quite well.