Author Topic: Need help building 1/4" > RCA cables... (Read 6911 times)

Swampy · « **on:** September 25, 2004, 07:30:08 PM »

Hey all, so Im getting a Delta 1010lt to do some "studio" recordings, but I need some help building cables. 6 of the card's imputs are RCA, so Im going to have to build 6 1/4" > RCA cables to go from my preamps to the card. I've never built anything but XLR cables so Im gonna need some help. What I need to know is, what kind of cables and connectors should I use. I would like to only spend 10 bucks a cable if possable... I saw these connectors, but they seem too expensive for me, can anyone recormend ones that are a little cheaper? http://www.markertek.com/Product.asp?baseItem=NF2CB%2D2&cat=CABLESCONN&subcat=VCONNECT&prodClass=RCACON&mfg=Neutrik+USA&search=0&off=
What kind of cable should I use? Does Canare make some that will work? What about male 1/4" plugs... Is there anything I should know about making cables with two differnt ends on them? THANKS for any help!

leegeddy · « **Reply #1 on:** September 25, 2004, 07:37:03 PM »

alex;
send me a pm with specs. i just built several 1/4>xlr and 1/4>rca for someone recently.

marc

caymanreview · « **Reply #2 on:** September 25, 2004, 07:37:48 PM »

yep, Marc is good at the 1/4" > rca cables, i know that for a fact, i have a few right here!

Swampy · « **Reply #3 on:** September 25, 2004, 07:45:52 PM »

Thanks man, but I really can't afford to have someone build them for me, unless you are dirt cheap

What I would like to do is make six 4.5' long cables with 1/4" on one side and RCA on the other, both sides male. Alnd in a perfect world, I would like to have them be 6 different colors (not black) for easy idenification...

leegeddy · « **Reply #4 on:** September 25, 2004, 07:59:34 PM »

just pm'd you.

marc

Swampy · « **Reply #5 on:** September 25, 2004, 08:09:03 PM »

Back atcha! THANKS!

Swampy · « **Reply #6 on:** September 25, 2004, 11:18:42 PM »

Okay, so Im doing a little shopping around on markertek. There are the Canare connectors; http://www.canare.com/catalog.html, and I think Im going to use Canare cable http://www.canare.com.hk/ofc%20line%20cable.htm. My question is, which diameter cable matches up with which diameter cable? Please help! THANKS!

mmmatt · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2004, 09:12:17 AM »

Hey!
How about sharing this info with the rest of us!!! I'm curious if I should do anything with the shield when using starquad.
Thanks
Matt

leegeddy · « **Reply #8 on:** November 10, 2004, 08:22:57 PM »

Quote from: mmmatt on November 09, 2004, 09:12:17 AM

Hey!
How about sharing this info with the rest of us!!! I'm curious if I should do anything with the shield when using starquad.
Thanks
Matt

matt;

you're using SQ cables for unbalanced 1/4"?

if so, then i would do the following: 4 conductors (2 white + 2 blue) > Tip. shield braid > sleeve.
i would NOT do the following: 2 conductors (white) > Tip. 2 blue conductors > sleeve.

alternatively, i would simply use the Canare GS cable for unbalanced connectors.

marc

mmmatt · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2004, 10:54:29 AM »

what is wrong with using wht tip/ blue sleve? or adding the shield to the ring... I guess my logic isn't helping me on this one.
Matt

leegeddy · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2004, 03:13:49 PM »

Quote from: mmmatt on November 11, 2004, 10:54:29 AM

what is wrong with using wht tip/ blue sleve? or adding the shield to the ring... I guess my logic isn't helping me on this one.
Matt

matt;

an unbalanced 1/4" would not have a ring. you have tip and the sleeve.

marc

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2004, 05:24:50 PM »

Sound System Interconnection: http://www.rane.com/note110.html

I'm not sure if this is what matt is talking about, but..... There are designs for unbalanced audio interconnect cables that are constructed with two signal wire paths (signal and return) and a shield with the shield tied to the return path terminal at the source side, making the cable "directional". Supposedly this drains any noise collected by the shield toward the source component and away from the successive gain stages. YMMV.

mmmatt · « **Reply #12 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:39:55 AM »

Quote from: leegeddy on November 11, 2004, 03:13:49 PM

Quote from: mmmatt on November 11, 2004, 10:54:29 AM
what is wrong with using wht tip/ blue sleve? or adding the shield to the ring... I guess my logic isn't helping me on this one.
Matt

matt;

an unbalanced 1/4" would not have a ring. you have tip and the sleeve.

marc

Marc, I did mean to say adding the shield to the sleeve. I heard something to that effect, but the article from Maynard cleared up some of my confusion. That is a very good article for understanding the basics of interconnects. It does agree that rca to unbal 1/4" should be wire(s) to tip and shield to sleve. However, with my mixer, I have jacks that are combination bal/unbal, so I can go either way. It is my understanding that by running inputs through a ballanced input you are actually adding more circuitry to the connection and may degrade the signal some. However, if that signal is having ground loop problems, and you can loose some noise, it is all good! This whole question came to me because I was getting some fuzz going from the RCA out from a couple of FOH consoles that I never experienced with my previous mixer. My previous mixer (behringer mxb1002) was DC and the current one (Mackie onyx 1220) is AC. I think this may have something to do with it as well. In addition my RCA cables were the weak link of my patching arsenal, so I needed to upgrade cables regardless. My plan for now is to resolder the cables to what Marc has said by going all 4 to tip and shield to sleeve. If I still get a little hum I will get some ballanced connectors and do the quasi-ballanced cable that was suggested in the article. Thanks Guys, this has been very helpful! +T's

Matt

mmmatt · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:21:21 AM »

FWIW, I found this on canare's site in their FAQ www.canare.com

Matt

****************************************
FAQ - Audio and Video Products
Home » Products » F.A.Q. » FAQ - Audio and Video Products

What's Balanced and Unbalanced Audio?
Unbalanced connectors are generally RCA (F-10, RCAP) and Phono (F-15) featuring one center contact and one ground contact. Unbalanced cables usually consist of one center conductor with an overall shield (GS-6). To protect against excessive noise incursions, Unbalanced cable assemblies should be limited to 15 foot runs.

Balanced connectors are able to provide greater noise immunity due to the phase cancelling nature of the twisted pairs and are standard equipment in professional audio installations. Balanced connectors have three contacts: two for the signal (+/-) and one for ground shield. The standard connector for balanced cable is an XLR, Bantam Tip/Ring/Sleeve (TRS) or Longframe TRS. (F-16 phono plugs are typically NOT used for pro broadcast balanced audio applications).

Two conductor twisted pair cable such as L-2B2AT (or 4-cond L-4E6S Star Quad) are intended for Balanced circuits, but may also be used for Unbalanced assemblies. One of several wiring tricks, is to solder the blue conductor to the connector's center pin and the white conductor to the shield ground contact. An installer may then choose to "float the cable shield" by not soldering the overall braid (or drain wire) at one or both ends of the cable. This technique may result in better "unbalanced" circuit noise rejection.

leegeddy · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2004, 02:29:55 AM »

matt;
thanks for that info. as you know, there are many schools of cable design and there isn't always 1 correct method.

This technique may result in better "unbalanced" circuit noise rejection.

i see that Canare has chosen to word their thoughts carefully.

marc

mmmatt · « **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2004, 03:04:48 AM »

Well... I'm hoping Canare is right, only because I don't want to pull these cables apart and start over. I was having pretty serious noise problems with the "off the shelf" RCA cables I have been using, and these will be a big improvement regardless. If there is any detectable noise though, I will pull them apart and try it your way. Plus I redid all the cables for my buddies bar a month ago and wired this way with starquad. I need to keep a clean conscious or I'll be over there with my soldering iron because I feel guilty!

Matt

leegeddy · « **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2004, 03:22:19 AM »

Quote from: mmmatt on November 13, 2004, 03:04:48 AM

Well... I'm hoping Canare is right, only because I don't want to pull these cables apart and start over. I was having pretty serious noise problems with the "off the shelf" RCA cables I have been using, and these will be a big improvement regardless. If there is any detectable noise though, I will pull them apart and try it your way. Plus I redid all the cables for my buddies bar a month ago and wired this way with starquad. I need to keep a clean conscious or I'll be over there with my soldering iron because I feel guilty!

Matt

matt;

good luck and hope it works out for ya.

fwiw, i use the Canare GS cable for some of my home stereo ICs. the longest run is 10-12' (i think). haven't noticed any noise with them.

marc

mmmatt · « **Reply #17 on:** November 13, 2004, 04:18:41 PM »

Thanks for all your input Marc!!! +T

leegeddy · « **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2004, 06:31:37 PM »

backatcha, matt! building these things is half the fun.

marc

krebsy · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2004, 06:15:46 PM »

Matt,
How did the Canare method of wiring work out for you? Also, would a coax digi cable be wired the same way? I'm working on getting my rig bag set up somewhat permanently. I'm trying to get patcher cables in place so when folks ask, I don't need to pull the UA-5 out of my bag to connect their cables. Of course, the easiest answer would be to just buy some damn pre-made cables, but I like the punishment!

Thanks for any help.

mmmatt · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2004, 11:17:15 PM »

Quote from: krebsy on November 23, 2004, 06:15:46 PM

Matt,
How did the Canare method of wiring work out for you? Also, would a coax digi cable be wired the same way? I'm working on getting my rig bag set up somewhat permanently. I'm trying to get patcher cables in place so when folks ask, I don't need to pull the UA-5 out of my bag to connect their cables. Of course, the easiest answer would be to just buy some damn pre-made cables, but I like the punishment! Thanks for any help.

Well... the canare wiring made a huge difference in the noise I was getting from my other cables. But my other cables were absolute shit, so who knows what the biggest difference was. I don't think the method I used hurt things any, but I don't know for sure that it is any better than what Marc was suggesting. As for coax... I'm not sure. I have never made coax before, but typically it is wired like marc was saying if I'm not mistaken. As for the patcher cord, I do the same thing, and it works out great. Unlike some, I like to be accomodating to patchers and give them a clean feed without ripping my rig apart to do it! Good luck! You may want to post a new thread or search the forum for info on making coax.

Matt

krebsy · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2004, 07:58:46 AM »

After my other post, I did some googling that I should've done in the first place. It looks like a true coax digital cable should be made of 75 ohm coax cable terminated with RCA ends. I'm assuming you do the same shield to the sleeve trick with this cable. It also seems that an RCA interconnect cable gets the job done just as well, but the spdif protocal specifies the 75 ohm cable. Glad things worked out for you and thanks for the help.