Topic: What camcorder?

[shayne]

My Wifes parents bought us a sony handycam dcr-hc28, I am sure this is not a great model, but I have no idea what to look for in a camcorder, we are having a baby and really want to be able to take video's and transfer them to the computer and later to dvd. I am not a real technical person, not looking for cutting edge or the best just a good camera to do home videos of family functions, vacations, and what not. Inportant to us would be ease of use and small size, but they all seem to be pretty small. We most likely won't be doing much editing or anything just point shoot and get it to dvd. I am thinking I want hd based camera as opposed to tape  but maybe someone can clarify what is best for what we want to do. I really appreciate any and all advice, this forum blows my mind to see how much knowledge base there is here, thanks in advance.
Shayne

[shayne]

Oh forgot price range, looking for something in the $600.00 range I think, would be open to spending more if need be but would love to spend less too! so any and all suggestions welcome.
Shayne

[guitard]

From what you've described regarding your usage, I think the Sony handycam that you have will do just fine.

It's always nice having tapes as a backup for family videos.  With a harddrive cam, you have to download everything and store it on disk.  It would really be a bummer to find out the disk you've transferred some special video to has gone bad.

Editing and adding titles, etc. to footage coming off of mini-DV tapes is very easy.  If you plan on sharing the videos at all - you're going to want to edit it, especially if it's something like a kids sporting event. 

[stantheman1976]

I'm partial to the Panasonic PV-GS series.  You can get the GS320 for $400 shipped.  It gives you 3 imaging chips or a sharper picture and provides the most bang for the buck in my opinion.   

[shayne]

Ok so the camera I have will upload to computer? how do I get the tapes to dvd's? I noticed that some of the camcorders work on small dvd's would that be a good option? The only reason I ask is they bought this at best buy and there is a sticker on it if I open it to read the manuels they charge you 15% restock as well as a 14 day return so I want to make sure I am making the right decission.
Shayne

[NOTHINGFAN]

Ok so the camera I have will upload to computer? how do I get the tapes to dvd's?

all you have to do is connect your sony up to your computer via firewire and from there you will have a digital copy and then you can make dvd's from there.

[stantheman1976]

I always recommend avoiding the DVD and hard drive camcorders and sticking with tape.  The reason is that those DVD's will not stand the test of time.  I guarantee you footage shot on a DVD camcorder will not exist in 15 years because the DVD's will become corrupt.  Tape will degrade just like everything else over time but most of your footage will still exist.  Look at VHS and Beta tapes that are 20 years old and still play.  The resolution might be less but the footage on the tapes is still here.

MiniDV is extremely easy to transfer and edit.  If you have a firewire port on your computer hook your camera up with the appropriate cable and use your favorite editing program to "capture" the footage.  With MiniDV you are actually transferring digital 0's and 1's so you're not losing any information during transfer.  Just make sure you choose Type 2 DV-AVI as your container file.  It will take about 13GB per hour of footage but can be manipulated and changed very easily.

[gewwang]

I just got a new camcorder and went with a new Sony camcorder with 60GB hard drive after using a miniDV for the last 7 years.

To me the decision to move from miniDV to hard drives is like moving from dat to hard-drive recorders. The cost of hard drives is never going up and continues going down, just backup to multiple hard drives as with 24/96 audio masters for redundancy.

[tfs8271]

I always recommend avoiding the DVD and hard drive camcorders and sticking with tape.  The reason is that those DVD's will not stand the test of time.  I guarantee you footage shot on a DVD camcorder will not exist in 15 years because the DVD's will become corrupt.  Tape will degrade just like everything else over time but most of your footage will still exist.  Look at VHS and Beta tapes that are 20 years old and still play.  The resolution might be less but the footage on the tapes is still here.

MiniDV is extremely easy to transfer and edit.  If you have a firewire port on your computer hook your camera up with the appropriate cable and use your favorite editing program to "capture" the footage.  With MiniDV you are actually transferring digital 0's and 1's so you're not losing any information during transfer.  Just make sure you choose Type 2 DV-AVI as your container file.  It will take about 13GB per hour of footage but can be manipulated and changed very easily.

What do you think of the Panasonics that record to SD cards?

[shayne]

just relized I have enough posts to +t so everyone gets one! thanks for all the great info.

[beatkilla]

I have used that camera DC 28 and it is fine for what you'll need.

I agree tape is the safest .reliable method.

And you won't get a better picture with the panny 3 chip IMO.I have a vx 2100 3 chip and in good light i can see no difference between the DC 28 and vx 2100.However in low light it smokes it.

Just learn to adjust the exposure on the 28 by default it will add 18db of gain blowing out the hightlights.So back off on the exposure a bit.

[wjlapier]

I have used that camera DC 28 and it is fine for what you'll need.

I agree tape is the safest .reliable method.

And you won't get a better picture with the panny 3 chip IMO.I have a vx 2100 3 chip and in good light i can see no difference between the DC 28 and vx 2100.However in low light it smokes it.

Just learn to adjust the exposure on the 28 by default it will add 18db of gain blowing out the hightlights.So back off on the exposure a bit.

I have the 26 version of the camera you have.  I've used it for shooting my kids playing soccer, track, baseball, football and basketball.  School concerts, family stuff, and vacations.  Tapes are great to have as backup--just don't fall behind like I do.  As others have said, firewire transfer to HD.  Create movie and burn to DVD.  Time consuming but lots of fun.

I'll tell ya little story.  We bought a Sony hi-8 digital camera in '99.  Cost about $1000.  Well, we made lots of  family movies and now the kids are having a ball looking at this old footage of them when they were little. 

Keep rolling tape on the kids!

[shayne]

thanks for all the replies, we ended up exchanging it for the hc38, I liked the feel a little better, also had usb and I am not sure my home computer has fire wire, other than that they are very similar, thanks everyone for the education. +t's to you all.

[stantheman1976]

I always recommend avoiding the DVD and hard drive camcorders and sticking with tape.  The reason is that those DVD's will not stand the test of time.  I guarantee you footage shot on a DVD camcorder will not exist in 15 years because the DVD's will become corrupt.  Tape will degrade just like everything else over time but most of your footage will still exist.  Look at VHS and Beta tapes that are 20 years old and still play.  The resolution might be less but the footage on the tapes is still here.

MiniDV is extremely easy to transfer and edit.  If you have a firewire port on your computer hook your camera up with the appropriate cable and use your favorite editing program to "capture" the footage.  With MiniDV you are actually transferring digital 0's and 1's so you're not losing any information during transfer.  Just make sure you choose Type 2 DV-AVI as your container file.  It will take about 13GB per hour of footage but can be manipulated and changed very easily.

What do you think of the Panasonics that record to SD cards?

Never used it.  I will stick with tape as long as it is sold.  MiniDV is being phased out and I can't stop that but it's a popular format and will still survive for quite a while.  Look at Digital8 and VHS-C.  They are no longer made but you can still buy the tapes at Wal Mart. 

[bluntforcetrauma]

While there is no doubt that MiniDV is being eclipsed by newer formats like DVD, hard disk drive (HDD), and flash memory cards, it does offer a number of advantages. MiniDV is cheap and widely accessible. It's relatively durable, though many users have experienced the frustration of a faulty tape mechanism that spills out the lengths of tape. Cassettes make for easy archiving and the capture process for editing DV is more widely available than any other media.

Most crucial, perhaps, is that DV compression generally offers better quality video than the other formats. Standard definition DVD, HDD, and flash memory camcorders all employ MPEG-2 compression, which has a much lower data rate than DV - almost 1/3 the speed (8.5Mbps versus 25Mbps). Data speed is only one component of video quality, but it is important.

[guitard]

I'll tell ya little story.  We bought a Sony hi-8 digital camera in '99.  Cost about $1000.  Well, we made lots of  family movies and now the kids are having a ball looking at this old footage of them when they were little. 

Keep rolling tape on the kids!

I bought my first videocam in 1988 - the shoulder mount VHS variety.  It cost $1600 ~ which was a huge sum of money to me at the time.

A few years ago I started converting all my family vids to DVD.  I did a lot of editing to keep them interesting.  I sent copies to each of the kids and they really enjoy them.

I will say this ~ you can't shoot too much video of your family growing up!  Tapes only cost a couple of bucks.  Shoot hours and hours of footage.  Years later you will really be happy you were a videocam Dad/Mom.

Think long term ~ this is stuff several generations on down the line will watch someday.  Someday you'll be gone and the kids will be showing this stuff to their grandkids and great-grandkids.  Videos shot today will become Thanksgiving and Christmas family gathering classics several years from now.

[stantheman1976]

I'll tell ya little story.  We bought a Sony hi-8 digital camera in '99.  Cost about $1000.  Well, we made lots of  family movies and now the kids are having a ball looking at this old footage of them when they were little. 

Keep rolling tape on the kids!

I bought my first videocam in 1988 - the shoulder mount VHS variety.  It cost $1600 ~ which was a huge sum of money to me at the time.

A few years ago I started converting all my family vids to DVD.  I did a lot of editing to keep them interesting.  I sent copies to each of the kids and they really enjoy them.

I will say this ~ you can't shoot too much video of your family growing up!  Tapes only cost a couple of bucks.  Shoot hours and hours of footage.  Years later you will really be happy you were a videocam Dad/Mom.

Think long term ~ this is stuff several generations on down the line will watch someday.  Someday you'll be gone and the kids will be showing this stuff to their grandkids and great-grandkids.  Videos shot today will become Thanksgiving and Christmas family gathering classics several years from now.

Amen!  This is why I preach to people about avoiding MiniDVD and tapeless camcorders.  I have little doubt that my MiniDV tapes and VHS-C tapes will still exist and work when my now 20 month old son is 15 years old.  I'm sure they'll degrade a bit and maybe have some dropouts but the majority of what I shot today will still be there.  I tell anyone who asks me about camcorders if they want their footage to still exist in 10 years then stick to tape and avoid the other formats like the plague.

[gewwang]

Here's a good blog about HD vs. miniDV for archival: http://www.overclockingwiki.org/joomla/blogs/hot_new_products/archiving_digital_video_on_minidv_vs_hard_drive.html

I still maintain it will be cheaper and take up less physical space over the long run to archive audio and video using multiple HD's. As someone noted in the comments, tapes go bad too. If dat tapes go bad after 5-10 years, wouldn't the same "shelf life" apply to miniDVs?

Either way, the key is to keep multiple copies and I have boxes full of cassette tapes and dat tapes already, I don't want to go thru that again with miniDVs.

[greatape]

Just some personal experience to add.
I have a Panasonic GS300 and I borrowed a sony hc30 for a couple shows this week.  The HC30 was much better than a Canon Elura 100 that I've used.  However, my Pana GS300 is much better than the HC30. 

[mizary]

Here's a good blog about HD vs. miniDV for archival: http://www.overclockingwiki.org/joomla/blogs/hot_new_products/archiving_digital_video_on_minidv_vs_hard_drive.html

dang...  I was gonna say that. more or less.

I still archive video on minidv tapes...  but HD prices make it a tougher decision...

one thing I disagree with is "MiniDV tapes can be stored in a fireproof safe."  most fireproof safes only keep temps low enough to keep paper from bursting into flames.  lots of heat cause 1/0's to go bye bye...  so your tapes will be safe - but you data will be corrupt.

I say once HD prices are about 50% of minidv prices (per GB of storage) I will stop buying new minidv tapes and reuse my old ones and use HD for archival purposes.

--mizary

[tfs8271]

Quick question.

When recording live music, do most people use the mic in for say the Pan. GS300 patch to their rig or do it post production. Might be a dumb question, so sorry if it is.

[Wiesel]

Quick question.

When recording live music, do most people use the mic in for say the Pan. GS300 patch to their rig or do it post production. Might be a dumb question, so sorry if it is.

Since almost all consumer cams use AGC you record the audio separately and mux it in the post production.

[612]

I'm partial to the Panasonic PV-GS series.  You can get the GS320 for $400 shipped.  It gives you 3 imaging chips or a sharper picture and provides the most bang for the buck in my opinion.   

With a budget < $500 I've seriously been looking at the GS320 for shooting live shows and perhaps in 5 years a family.

[stantheman1976]

It does suffer in low light like every consumer camera but it's still a good picture.  In good lighting conditions like an outside wedding or concert it absolutely cannot be beat.  Mix it in post with a separate audio source and you can make some great videos to share.

I shot an outside wedding in November with two GS320's and one GS300 and everyone who saw it was blown away by the outside shots.  Even the extremely low light shots under a tent looked nice but you could tell the camera was using electronic gain.

[tfs8271]

It does suffer in low light like every consumer camera but it's still a good picture.  In good lighting conditions like an outside wedding or concert it absolutely cannot be beat.  Mix it in post with a separate audio source and you can make some great videos to share.

I shot an outside wedding in November with two GS320's and one GS300 and everyone who saw it was blown away by the outside shots.  Even the extremely low light shots under a tent looked nice but you could tell the camera was using electronic gain.

How is the GS300 under low light? How would you rate for low light (brand and model).

[stantheman1976]

IT suffers under extremely lowlight.  There's no doubt about that.  The picture is still fairly clear though.  It also depends on what you're viewing the finished video on.  On my PC monitor it looks really dark but on my laptop and TV it looks a lot better.

[greatape]

Quick question.

When recording live music, do most people use the mic in for say the Pan. GS300 patch to their rig or do it post production. Might be a dumb question, so sorry if it is.

I paid more money to get a used GS300 instead of a new GS320 because I thought I would use the mic input (320 doesn't have it).  After I bought it I was told about the issues with AGC and haven't even attempted to use the mic input. 

Also, regarding the question about low-light.  Almost all concert lighting has been sufficient so far.  Yes, there will be some noise if the lighting is really low, but overall it still looks good. 

[firmdragon]

Quick question.

When recording live music, do most people use the mic in for say the Pan. GS300 patch to their rig or do it post production. Might be a dumb question, so sorry if it is.

usually I'll do both.  it makes synching up a lot easier when you have audio that isn't distorted.