Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 7)

[F.O.Bean]

I'm out of town for a few days and it's a PITA doing it on my phone, but what I plan on doing when I'm back is copy-pasting the Known Issues and Firmware Update Requests into emails to Tascam customer service and tech support.  That's what I did several times before with no response from anyone.  If others start doing something similar, maybe they start to take notice.  Otherwise it seems like I'm this one annoying guy who find a bunch of problems and likes to complain.

Honestly I really like the 70D and it's a reliable workhorse for me.  Everything on the list short of the crappy limiter could theoretically be fixed with firmware updates, particularly given the Blackfin DSP chip that runs the unit.  They just have to see that it's worth their time and money to assign engineers and programmers to make it happen.  That's why we need to be many wheels intelligently squeaking together.

I really like the thing too. The metering is much better than the 60, and the form factor is much better also. I feel a little better about the menu-controlled phantom power off/off deal once I realized that once they are on, the unit prompts you to confirm rather than having to turn them on individually. Really, the non-selectable output is the biggest problem I got, and frankly I'm surprised it's like this given the target market and the fact that it is selectable in it 60.

So what exactly does the 60d do differently with its output, that the 70d doesn't? Sorry about the probably newb question, but I have only scrolled thru my cousins new 60d's menu ONCE, and I don't know what you guys are talking about? So you can just send 2 channels of your choice to the 60d's output, instead of a mix of all 4 channels?

That way, I know what I'm talking about when I send Tascam some emails

[lsd2525]

Bean, I don't even know if this is complete. I swear there may be another menu for the camera out, but I don't have access to the unit to check right now. Pages 39-40 of the manual describe it. As you can see, you've got some choices.

http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/799/e_dr-60d_om_va.pdf

I use a camcorder a lot, and it's great just to be sending one set of mics to the cam rather than just a mix of everything.

[voltronic]

OK, I just sent an email to Tascam Operational Support (again).  For everyone's copy-paste convenience, here is what I sent.  Feel free to edit or duplicate as you wish.  The lists are simply copied from the DR-70D FAQ thread.

I have been using the DR-70D for nearly two years in a variety of audio recording applications.  Over the course of that time, I have been in contact with many other users of this unit, and together we have compiled a list of issues and/or problems with its function.  Nearly all of these issues could be addressed with a firmware update.  Below is a list of issues we have found, as well as suggestions for future firmware updates to address them.  Please note that some of these functions being requested already exist on other Tascam recorders such as the DR-60D.

Known Issues:

1. Poor metering display.  Only the highest dB level of all active channels is shown numerically at the lower-right corner.
2. It is difficult to accurately match levels between channels because of issue #1, and there is no way to gang channels together to link level adjustments.
3. Limiter adds 12dB noise and should be avoided.
4. No menu settings can be accessed while recording.  Especially problematic is the inability to adjust the CAM / LINE output level while recording.  The only changes that can be made while recording are limited to the 4 gain pots, headphone level, and insertion of SLATE tones.
5. Monitoring is restricted to either a 2 channel stereo mixdown or the CAM input.
6. CAM / LINE output is a 2 channel stereo mixdown, even if all 4 channels are recording.  This cannot be adjusted.
7. Slate tones only can be generated while recording.
8. Engaging HOLD locks all settings from being changed, INCLUDING the gain pots (which are digitally controlled).  If you move a gain pot while hold is engaged and then release the hold, the gain will quickly jump to the new position.
9. There is a dead zone at the bottom of the gain pot range: the pots must be turned past 8:00 for the channel to turn on at its minimum gain setting.


Firmware Update Requests:

1. Improve level monitoring readout - a large, onscreen dB gain level of one channel that appears briefly when moving a gain pot would be very helpful, and/or a per-channel numeric input level readout.
2. Add an option for ganged level controls for stereo pairs of inputs or for all four at once.  For example, in ganged 1 x 2 or 2 x 2 mode, either level control 1 or 2 would adjust both channels 1 and 2 simultaneously and either level controls 3 or 4 would adjust channels 3 and 4 simultaneously.  Similarly, in ganged 1 x 4 mode, any of the level knobs would adjust all of the channels simultaneously.  Alternatively, since level control is all digital, there could be a second menu option to have certain gain knobs disabled in gang mode to prevent accidental movement...say in 1 x 2 or 2 x 2 only knobs 1 and 3 are active and in 1 x 4 only knob 1 is active.
3. Fix the limiter implementation to make it usable without adding significant noise (as much as can be remedied digitally).
4. Allow certain menu functions to be accessed while recording, such CAM / LINE level adjustment.
5. Monitor channels 1/2 or 3/4 as separate stereo pairs or allow per-channel monitoring (currently can only monitor a mixdown of all recording channels, or the stereo CAM input).
6. Assign selected channels to CAM / LINE outputs rather than a stereo mixdown (see #5).
7. Allow Slate tones to be generated without recording. This would be useful for level-matching cameras, external recorders, and other devices before recording begins.
8. Improve the gain pot movement / hold switch disengage behavior.  Option 1: hold switch does not affect gain pots.  Option 2: if a gain pot is moved during HOLD and then hold is released, the level of the moved channel will not change until that gain pot is moved a second time.
9. Use the full range of gain pot movement to eliminate the dead zone at the bottom of the range.

[noahbickart]

^^^^^^

Looks great, to which e-mail did you send this?

[voltronic]

I used the contact form linked here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177544.msg2199106#msg2199106

I received an automated response with a reference number.  If I don't get a reply again, I'll try emailing their support address directly without the web form.

[2manyrocks]

Try the old school method of sending a letter by certified mail, return receipt requested.  Then see when they sign for the letter and how long it takes for them to reply. 

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks a bunch Volt

[vanark]

Try the old school method of sending a letter by certified mail, return receipt requested.  Then see when they sign for the letter and how long it takes for them to reply.

Why is a reply required? They have no obligation to reply to users' feature requests. Nothing in that list makes the unit unusable. I think folks forget it is a $200 deivice.

[jbell]

My thoughts exactly!!  If you want better features buy sound devices.

Try the old school method of sending a letter by certified mail, return receipt requested.  Then see when they sign for the letter and how long it takes for them to reply.

Why is a reply required? They have no obligation to reply to users' feature requests. Nothing in that list makes the unit unusable. I think folks forget it is a $200 deivice.

[voltronic]

^ ^^  Here we go with this again.  You might remember that I was one of the people saying "it's only a cheap recorder, what do you expect" a while ago.  What made me change my tune is finding out that some of the things we're asking them to fix are already built into their other recorders in similar price brackets.  They could certainly fix a lot of things with firmware, if they wanted to. 

As far as receiving a reply goes:  I think a certified letter is overkill.  I just would like someone to at least reply to customer service emails acknowledging that they will take a look at these issues.  I don't expect Sound Devices level of service.

[vanark]

It costs them money to make fixes, even if they are in other recorders. I'm not saying any of the features you want wouldn't be useful or an improvement, but I also think the 70D is good enough for what you paid.

You guys had a Tascam rep here as a conduit and you drove him off. He may have been a bit thin skinned for TS, but his reaction was pretty normal (IMO) for the real business world. Maybe an organized campaign will make your voice be heard, but I suggest you make sure not make it an angry, insulting one. Not that you have, but when people start talking about sending certified letters and expecting (demanding?) a response, I think the campaign is being set up to be a disappointment.

[voltronic]

It costs them money to make fixes, even if they are in other recorders. I'm not saying any of the features you want wouldn't be useful or an improvement, but I also think the 70D is good enough for what you paid.

You guys had a Tascam rep here as a conduit and you drove him off. He may have been a bit thin skinned for TS, but his reaction was pretty normal (IMO) for the real business world. Maybe an organized campaign will make your voice be heard, but I suggest you make sure not make it an angry, insulting one. Not that you have, but when people start talking about sending certified letters and expecting (demanding?) a response, I think the campaign is being set up to be a disappointment.

Yes, I'm quite happy with the 70D given what it costs, but there are a few things that, even considering the price, don't quite work as they should and could be fixed through firmware changes.  I acknowledge that this will cost money, so the chances of that happening is not the greatest.  Tascam does release new firmware periodically though, so my thinking is that if we get to them in one of those development cycles they might consider looking at some of these issues.  It doesn't hurt to ask.

"Us guys" did not drive off the Tascam rep.  Please don't lump me or some of the other recent commenters here together with the 3 or 4 people who insulted and drove away Tom Duffy (the Tascam rep).  I was one of the people trying to keep the peace, and I took quite a bit of crap for it from some others here, being called a corporate apologist, etc.  I have reached out to Tom privately a few times since that incident, and he is very firm that he's not coming back to TS, which is unfortunate.

I completely agree that any such campaign for firmware revisions needs to be civil and non-threatening.  If you read the letter I sent to Tascam above, you'll see that it is very matter-of-fact and is not making any sort of demands; merely pointing out issues and suggesting fixes.  What other people choose to do is their business.

[2manyrocks]

My recollection is Voltronic has tried to get a response from Tascam for quite a while, apparently to no avail.  What is the harm in sending a certified letter to see if it elicts a response?  If tascam would simply give an answer, any answer, it would be one thing, but no response? 

Preface the letter by saying I've tried to bring this to your attention by email, but haven't received any response.  Therefore, I wrote to you because your 70d would be ever so much better if you would address the following....

Knowledgeable customer feedback should be valuable to Tascam.  The very least an intelligent company would do is at least say thank you for bringing this to our attention.  But no response doesn't speak well, IMO.

[voltronic]

BTW, I just learned that Tom was not a customer service rep with Tascam.  A quick search shows that he was actually an engineer with Teac from 1991-1999, and since 1999 has been a Teac / Tascam engineering manager.

[vanark]

I completely agree that any such campaign for firmware revisions needs to be civil and non-threatening.  If you read the letter I sent to Tascam above, you'll see that it is very matter-of-fact and is not making any sort of demands; merely pointing out issues and suggesting fixes.  What other people choose to do is their business.

Not exactly true. What other people choose to do can impact your business. See: driving off Tom rather than working with him.

So, when someone starts talking about sending certified letters, I think they are crossing into the antagonistic territory and it is wise to voice an opinion that that is not the appropriate approach. Yes, they can do what they want. But to think their actions won't cause Tascam to lump all of the requests in with it (ie, read my "you guys" label), then you are not being realistic.

volt, I think your approach has been level. I also think Tascam's response to the SD card glitch issue was weak, but the over the top response from a segment of TS'ers, while within their right, did not achieve anything and in fact cut off the only direct access you had to the Tascam service team. If folks are going to go down that path again and expect this device to be everything they ever wanted in a 4 channel recorder, I think that is ill-advised.

A coordinated campaign? Absolutely. It may get you heard at the right time in a development cycle. Sending certified letters to see how long it takes them to respond? Unrealistic and confrontational, IMO.