Topic: Portable Larvy AD10?

[Todd R]

Yep, echoing the sentiment that its great to see gear designers here!

In terms of needs, I'd agree that 4ch is probably not necessary.  Overall, there aren't nearly as many concert tapers doing 4ch, and those that do are often using a 4ch recorder.  However, to help with this, a word clock in (and/or word clock out) would be helpful.  Perhaps better still the ability to clock to an incoming spdif data stream, not just a word clock stream.

In terms of outputs, coax/rca spdif for sure, but an optical output would be helpful as some of the available recorders only have optical input, not coax (e.g., Sony D50).

[scb]

I am trying to figure out what the needs are for a portable unit, and it is not always as easy as it seems.
For example, I was thinking about a stereo unit, but reading some comments, there may be some preference for a 4 channel unit, which will obviosly must be bigger (more XLR connectors, more circuits...) , will require more power, will cost more... Then there is the question of the prefered memory: based on the posts, my guess was incorrect, laptops are not the prefered choice...

I appreciate the various comment but I still have much to learn regarding "the most desirable features" in portable recording, on top of best sound and product reliability.

Regards
Dan Lavry 

-Stereo unit
-dc power somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-12 volts
-lavry adc (the reason we're interested )
-with or without mic preamp .  obviously if it has a pre, that makes it more functional, but it would also drive cost/price up, drive power requirements up, and take up more space in the box.  if it sounded good enough and only was an a/d, you'd get some users, but a pre would probably get more interest from our "community" just because its 1 less box to carry around.  if there was a preamp, but the box also had the option to run line-in and bypass the preamp, this would probably be the ideal solution (though maybe not most practical).  i apologize for rambling...
-digital output (rca/xlr)
-balanced xlr input
-form factor around the same size of the grace v3, sound devices 722,  or mytek stereo 192 units

i'm sure i'm forgetting stuff, but these would be "the basics" in my opinion

[Dan Lavry]

I am trying to figure out what the needs are for a portable unit, and it is not always as easy as it seems.
For example, I was thinking about a stereo unit, but reading some comments, there may be some preference for a 4 channel unit, which will obviosly must be bigger (more XLR connectors, more circuits...) , will require more power, will cost more... Then there is the question of the prefered memory: based on the posts, my guess was incorrect, laptops are not the prefered choice...

I appreciate the various comment but I still have much to learn regarding "the most desirable features" in portable recording, on top of best sound and product reliability.

Regards
Dan Lavry 

-Stereo unit
-dc power somewhere in the neighborhood of 6-12 volts
-lavry adc (the reason we're interested )
-with or without mic preamp .  obviously if it has a pre, that makes it more functional, but it would also drive cost/price up, drive power requirements up, and take up more space in the box.  if it sounded good enough and only was an a/d, you'd get some users, but a pre would probably get more interest from our "community" just because its 1 less box to carry around.  if there was a preamp, but the box also had the option to run line-in and bypass the preamp, this would probably be the ideal solution (though maybe not most practical).  i apologize for rambling...
-digital output (rca/xlr)
-balanced xlr input
-form factor around the same size of the grace v3, sound devices 722,  or mytek stereo 192 units

i'm sure i'm forgetting stuff, but these would be "the basics" in my opinion

Thank you all for the inputs.

Does anyone use rca connectors? I like the robust XLR's which lock into place, and the XLR signal power level is at least 25 times stronger then SPDIF...

Any comments regarding the preferred memory technology would be appreciated. Are there problems with the robustness of hard drives in portable applications? (I tend to be very "protective" of my laptop, mostly the hard drive).   

Regards
Dan Lavry

[Colin Liston]

Any comments regarding the preferred memory technology would be appreciated. Are there problems with the robustness of hard drives in portable applications? (I tend to be very "protective" of my laptop, mostly the hard drive).   

Regards
Dan Lavry

Memory?  Are you considering making this a recording device also?  An all in one, preamp, AD converter and recorder?
If so, either CF (compact flash) or SD card would be my vote.

[easy jim]

Thank you all for the inputs.

Does anyone use rca connectors? I like the robust XLR's which lock into place, and the XLR signal power level is at least 25 times stronger then SPDIF...

Any comments regarding the preferred memory technology would be appreciated. Are there problems with the robustness of hard drives in portable applications? (I tend to be very "protective" of my laptop, mostly the hard drive).   

Regards
Dan Lavry

I also prefer XLR connectors over RCA, or BNC over RCA for s/pdif.  Adapter cables are not too hard to come by/make/have made, and robustness and durability are key values for field use.

Regarding memory technology, I use a 4 track hard drive recorder.  Most folks on here, I believe are using newer flash media (CF and SD cards) or dedicated hard drive recorders.  The Sound Devices 7xx series seems the benchmark/new standard for most, with the recorders (excepting the 702) all having both internal hard drives and CF card recording ability).  

The issue with the robustness of hard drives, especially with laptops, seems mostly a function of speed/cache, fragmentation, quality of internal shockmounting, and how much other crap (like Winblows OS, etc.) is also running that may cause the processor to run up against its limits and/or have write errors.  Couple this with recording loud amplified music, often in smaller venues with pumping subwoofers, lots of vibrations, and the potential for being bumped and spilled on by drunk attendees.

I use(d) a laptop for field multitrack recording, and now avoid it if at all possible.  I'll only go through what I view as the additional risk and hassle if I really need more than 4 tracks - which I've found is very often not the case for what I'm trying to do (represent the show more or less as it went down with the full ambience of at least one pair of open mics vs. a studio-like, polished-sounding full blown multitrack).  

[Dan Lavry]

Any comments regarding the preferred memory technology would be appreciated. Are there problems with the robustness of hard drives in portable applications? (I tend to be very "protective" of my laptop, mostly the hard drive).   

Regards
Dan Lavry

Memory?  Are you considering making this a recording device also?  An all in one, preamp, AD converter and recorder?

If so, either CF (compact flash) or SD card would be my vote.

I am very disapointed with the state of computer interfaces to audio. The new mac computers do have optical in and out, both are stereo spdif, and that is very cool. But most of the firewire and usb leaves a lot to be desired, with tons of issues regarding compatibility between various devices and operating systems... It is a mess! So I was very gld to read that CF and CD is being used here. The trouble is not about transfering data. The computer world is doing fine with data transfers, and the internet world does also does well at it. The mess is when trying to transfer data in real time, especialy with more channels.

My AD10 phisical outputs are XLR and optical (toslink), and I provide an adapter for users of rca connectors (XLR to RCA), but might as well consider a CF. How much capacity for stereo? I assume 24 bits and 16 bits are most common. Is 44.1KHz most common? Is 96KHz used alot in portable recording?

Regards
Dan Lavry 

   

[easy jim]

I assume 24 bits and 16 bits are most common. Is 44.1KHz most common? Is 96KHz used alot in portable recording?

Most of us here are recording 24 bits now, though some are still doing 16 bit considering that we are often recording PAs in substandard acoustical environments.

I personally run 24bit/48KHz most of the time, in part because I often record with HD video guys.  44.1, 48, 88.2, and 96KHz are all utilized by many of us.  Many, like myself, run at 24/48 or 24/44.1 most of the time, while others maximize the potential of their devices and run 24/96 (or 1bit/2.8 or 5.6MHz DSD format using the Korg MR-1 or MR-1000).

For those transferring old analog masters, with many looking at having high-end A>D converters in their signal chain, the ability to go up to 96KHz may be an important consideration (or 192KHz, or even DSD with the Korg devices).  With the FAT32 file size limitations, it is important - of course - that any device that offers the higher sample rates be able to 'seamlessly' split/create new files either at or near the 2GB point, or at some selectable, smaller file size.  3 hour long sets are not unheard of for some bands, and no one here wants to have a cut in their recording from having to swap out or manually start a new file on a flash card.

I'm sure I'm speaking for many in saying that we'd truly love to see a Lavry Pre/A>D device that would also record to high capacity flash media.  Many have been hoping to see that same thing from Grace Designs vis-a-vis their V3 Pre/A>D.

[Colin Liston]

I'm sure I'm speaking for many in saying that we'd truly love to see a Lavry Pre/A>D device that would also record to high capacity flash media.  Many have been hoping to see that same thing from Grace Designs vis-a-vis their V3 Pre/A>D.

Yeah, what he said.

[scb]

I am very disapointed with the state of computer interfaces to audio.

I gave up on computer interfaces when I got my Sound Devices 722 3 years ago.  I realized that the Sound Devices box did everything I needed it to (get 2 tracks to disk, via analog line in, microphone in, or spdif in) and the firewire transfer moves it right over to the computer.  It definitely saved the hassle of needing an actual computer, and has been much more reliable than any firewire or USB interface I ever owned

My AD10 phisical outputs are XLR and optical (toslink), and I provide an adapter for users of rca connectors (XLR to RCA), but might as well consider a CF. How much capacity for stereo? I assume 24 bits and 16 bits are most common. Is 44.1KHz most common? Is 96KHz used alot in portable recording?

Regards
Dan Lavry 

I think people record at 96khz simply because they can now.  If the box does it, why not record at the "best" (subjective, I know) possible rate?  It's at rates higher than 96hz that I think the reality of space vs sonic improvement sets in for many of us.  I can currently record at 192khz, but it just doesn't make much sense.  I usually stick to 88.2 or 96.  But portable boxes that do 96khz are commonplace, now

[mblindsey]

How much capacity for stereo?

Regards
Dan Lavry 

Credit to Rick in another thread for posting:

Recording Time using 8 GB SDHC card   
16 bit/44.1kHz : 755 minutes (Stereo), 377 minutes (4ch)
16 bit/48kHz : 694 minutes (Stereo), 347 minutes (4ch)
24 bit/48kHz : 462 minutes (Stereo), 231 minutes (4ch)
24 bit/96kHz : 231 minutes (Stereo), 115 minutes (4ch)
24 bit/192kHz : 115 minutes (Stereo)

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,97214.msg1342757.html#msg1342757

--Michael

[mblindsey]

I'm sure I'm speaking for many in saying that we'd truly love to see a Lavry Pre/A>D device that would also record to high capacity flash media.  Many have been hoping to see that same thing from Grace Designs vis-a-vis their V3 Pre/A>D.

Yeah, what he said.

I like where this is going....

[spcyrfc]

I'm sure I'm speaking for many in saying that we'd truly love to see a Lavry Pre/A>D device that would also record to high capacity flash media.  Many have been hoping to see that same thing from Grace Designs vis-a-vis their V3 Pre/A>D.

Yeah, what he said.

I like where this is going....

yep

[bgalizio]

I think the feature set of the SD7XX recorders is near ideal for our uses (wrt size as well) as far as all-in-one boxes go.

Just wanted to say that I enjoyed the interview in the newest TapeOP magazine!

[JWard]

When all I'm going to do is set up a stereo pair of microphones, I want nothing less than an all in one box.  Second best to that would be a preamp w/ADC and a reliable and cheap "bit-bucket."  The 702, to me, seems like the best machine out there. 

I think word clock I/O is highly functional, and allows the expansion of a 2-track recording device to a 4-track aggregate, thus I don't think a 4-track device is necessarily required.

I generally record at 24/48, although I think I may start doing more at 24/88.2

What I would want:
2 channels of preamplifier with phantom power, switchable to line level
AES/EBU I/O on XLR
S/PDIF I/O on RCA or BNC
balanced 1/4" analog outs
word clock I/O on BNC
records to compact flash
good metering
headphone amplifier that isn't lacking

[Dan Lavry]

When all I'm going to do is set up a stereo pair of microphones, I want nothing less than an all in one box.  Second best to that would be a preamp w/ADC and a reliable and cheap "bit-bucket."  The 702, to me, seems like the best machine out there. 

I think word clock I/O is highly functional, and allows the expansion of a 2-track recording device to a 4-track aggregate, thus I don't think a 4-track device is necessarily required.

I generally record at 24/48, although I think I may start doing more at 24/88.2

What I would want:
2 channels of preamplifier with phantom power, switchable to line level
AES/EBU I/O on XLR
S/PDIF I/O on RCA or BNC
balanced 1/4" analog outs
word clock I/O on BNC
records to compact flash
good metering
headphone amplifier that isn't lacking

Thanks for all the comments. I am looking at the many details mentioned here. I appreciate all the inputs.


Regards
Dan Lavry