Topic: Phantom Power with AT853's

[Belexes]

I've read on the board that the AT853's are best run with phantom power.  Mine terminate to a mini-plug.

Is this something I could use? I notice it is on clearance at SP:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT8532

Or should I just stay with the Denecke unit that I have. Does it make a difference?

The Denecke is such a big unit to lug in for stealth reasons, I am thinking the AT8532 may be more low-pro?

[Javier Cinakowski]

The mini-plug termination is a 2-wire configuration.  This is not compatable with the product in your link.  That product is intended for a mic that is terminated in a 3 wire (mini-xlr).  You your mics would need to be converted to 3-wire and you would need 2 of those AT8532 (it is a mono device, not stereo). 

This issue is not really about phantom powering.   The important part is how the mics are wired.  3-wire is better than 2.    853's can only handle a little over 9v.  If you use a 48v phantom power source, it would have to be converted back down to 9v anyway.

There is a solution for a 2-wire (1/8" mini-plug) that makes the mic perform like the 3-wire version.  These are known as the 4.7k or 2.2k mod.

So, you have a few options.  3-wire mod, with (2) AT8532's, or the 2-wire 4.7k/2.2k mods. There are actually quite a few more options, but the for the equipment you have I think the 4.7k mod is your best bet.  Chris Church does this modification, it is rather inexpensive.  If you know how to solder well you could do it yourself... 

[ninjadave]

i'm not the pro here but you're getting the same thing from the PS-2 and actually without any reduction in DB's which these AT8532' will do......there input is a miniXLR and the output is a FULL XLR so not sure what you are doing with the PS-2 but you would need to take your 3.5mm to full XLR with phantom adapters so you are probably not using your AT's with the PS-2 right?

the short version is.....stick with what you got.   you would need TWO of these AT8532's, one for each mic, so its not any smaller i don't think....and you'd need to terminate your mics to miniXLR somehow - a patch cable could do it......I think.....

ninja.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I think he is using the deneke preamp, not the ps2 phantom supply.  That would fry the AT853's by giving it full 48v phantom.  Perhaps he has the sound pro's mini-mod on the denecke preamp.  This gives a 1/8" input with 9v power.  It is a great option.  The only reason to get the 4.7k mod is if you are having distortion in loud situations (or you were overloading the denecke)

[ninjadave]

his sig has the PS-2 in it....i don't think he is using the PS-2 with the AT without the phantom adapters...

[Belexes]

I just got the C4's and needed the PS-2 for those, but for my stealthy mics, I am running them into Chris' ST-9100.

So it looked like the 4.7K mod is my solution to to get the the most from my 853's?  They are the 943 bodies with the 853 caps (adaptors being used).  Does that make a difference? 

[boojum]

Information on various microphones is best found at the manufacturer: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/c0075f38c1add6ad/index.html

[ninjadave]

Belexes...it does not matter running the 853's with the 943 bodies,that is what i plan to do. the adapters make it seemless. there are a few who can do the 4.7k mod since you have the 9100, chris would surely do it but you'll have to ship to him....doing the 4.7k mod is going to lower your DB to the recorder by 5-10dbs on average but with you using the 9100, this is easily made up with clean gain. you'll just have to find the new sweet spot on the gain depending on teh show cause it is going to change. i would definately get the 4.7k mod since a 3 wire setup won't work for you as you already have the gear for 3.5mm connections, etc...and allows you to use your MM's as well with teh 9100 or not...they don't need anything...i myself am going to use the 3 wire setup (hardwired battery box) but that is becuase i got it coming that way and frankly, i like the idea of it better (its the way they are supposed to be run). i think i am going to try without a 9100 or other preamp to start, i don't think i'll need it going into the R9 - i hope to put the money into more mics instead. 

good luck.

ninja.

[Belexes]

+T ninja and all others.  I'll have Chris do my mod.

[nameloc01]

You need to get mini xlrs put on them. Soundpros does the mod for like 80.00..the mod also includes the nady phantom power adaptors..which you need otherwise the denecke will fry the mics. I use this as my primary stealth rig and couldnt be more happy. Sure it is bulkier than some  other set ups but the quality of the recordings is top notch. The 853s are designed to use phantom power..so to get the most out of them its the only way to go.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Information on various microphones is best found at the manufacturer: http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/c0075f38c1add6ad/index.html

How does this post have anything to do with this thread?  There is nothing in manufacture documentation that deals with the modification of these microphones specifically regarding stealth concert recording.  If there is some documentation that deals with the differences in performance when terminating the mics differently, plese point that to me. 

Sometimes I wonder if people even read threads before they post...

The 853s are designed to use phantom power..so to get the most out of them its the only way to go.

These mics are actually designed to run on 3-wire , plug-in-power.  Phantom power is used only out of convienience.  All of the stock 853 gear has a phantom adapter built in that converts 48v->9v.  That being siad, 3-wire 9v is just as good and less bulky that using the 48v options.  I would be happy to argue that the 4.7k mod is just as good as well...

[nameloc01]

The tech at audio-technica told me these mics were designed to use phantom power..which is why they sell the power modules. When a.t. ships them out..to say soundpros...they have mini xlrs on them. (sp then takes them off and puts on a mini plug, or leaves them on for the "modification"and then charges) if they worked good just using a standard b.b., people wouldnt be getting the mics modded. The reason for the mic mod is to compensate for the mics being powered incorrectly. If you dont believe it..call audio-technica.

[rsimms3]

Just a suggestion for the future....if your 9100 has mini plug input, I would go with having your mics modded with mini-XLR connectors and have Chris build you a mini-XLR to mini plug cable with the 4.7k mod in the cable.  I just built one of these for myself so as to take advantage of a Sound Pros battery box I have so I could run two set ups.  The mini-XLR terminations will give you more options if you go into phantom in the future with adaptors and such with the ATs.

[Javier Cinakowski]

The tech at audio-technica told me these mics were designed to use phantom power..which is why they sell the power modules. When a.t. ships them out..to say soundpros...they have mini xlrs on them. (sp then takes them off and puts on a mini plug, or leaves them on for the "modification"and then charges) if they worked good just using a standard b.b., people wouldnt be getting the mics modded. The reason for the mic mod is to compensate for the mics being powered incorrectly. If you dont believe it..call audio-technica.

You are correct that the mics are designed to be powered by phantom, however the current that actually reaches the capsule is 9v in any configuaration.  Anything much over 10v will cause damage to the mics.  The AT's are only powered by phantom through a 48v->9v converter, thus phantom is only used because it is a popular voltage in many preamps/recorders.  If you have a 1.5-9v power source you can eliminate the phantom adapter that is built in to all AT mics.  This makes the mic much smaller for stealth work.  This, if anything, improves the sound of the mics as you are eliminating uneccesary parts from the signal chain. 

The problem people have when running plug in power has nothing to do with the voltage.  When people use mini-xlrs they get the benifit of 3-wire powering, NOT the benifit of 48v phantom.  9v Plug In power is just as good as 48v phantom if they are 3-wire.  1/8" mini-plugs are 2-wire and are not as good.  The exception is the 4.7k 2 wire mod.

PHANTOM powering does nothing to improve the sound.

[ninjadave]

i wish i would have read this 4 years ago....there is so much misconception out there (ie. phantom is the only way to go), etc. etc.....

i've finally moved to three wire power for the AT's but until it was explained by Fred here, i still wasn' sure if the 3 wire was the same/better than phantom. thanks for the explainations in here....

ninjadave.