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Offline achalsey

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Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« on: October 17, 2010, 05:16:05 AM »
OP: Whats the difference between the "horizontal" and vertical versions of Schoeps mics (ie 4 vs. 4v)?

How do you read, understand and then apply data from polar pattern diagrams??




(Thanks DStaz!  OP was just a lazy question I didn't want to look up myself, new topic is actually useful.  Thanks!)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:28:00 AM by achalsey »

Offline aaronji

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 07:33:20 AM »
One is end-addressed (4) and the other is side-addressed (4V)...

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 11:44:43 AM »
And they sound different.  The 4v, for example, has a significant bump ~6 - ~13 kHz.

http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/mk4/graphics
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/mk4v/graphics
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Offline DSatz

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 01:39:59 PM »
The enclosure around a microphone capsule has a moderately strong effect on a capsule's response characteristics, and on how well those characteristics are (or aren't) maintained for sound arriving at various angles.

In nearly all ordinary recording situations--especially for stereo recording at some distance from the sound sources--a considerable proportion of the sound energy arrives at your microphones from off-axis angles. The net result of what you get from a microphone in that situation is its integrated response across a rather wide angle in the horizontal plane--which may be quite different from the 0° response shown in most published frequency response curves. This is why I urge that people learn how to read polar diagrams. If you do, you can see that the "integrated" response of most cardioid capsules (for example) is characteristically rather different from their 0° response.

In Schoeps' "vertical" capsules (MK 4 V, MK 41 V, MK 8 and formerly the MK 6 and MK 4 VJ), the diaphragm is situated within a cylindrical enclosure. Thus sound energy arriving from any angle in the horizontal plane "sees" the same physical shape for that enclosure. That isn't true for the more usual types of capsule, since they aren't radially symmetrical. The net result is that the off-axis high-frequency response of a "vertical" capsule tends to be less peaky relative to its on-axis response. If you compare direct, on-axis pickup with the pickup of diffuse sound, the Schoeps MK 4 would have a somewhat brighter pickup for diffuse sound than for on-axis sound, while the MK 4 V basically would not.

However, it happens that the MK 4 V was designed to be inherently a little brighter in its on-axis response. As a result the MK 4 V ends up having somewhat brighter on-axis pickup than the MK 4, but without having brighter-sounding diffuse response than the MK 4 (which could confuse the stereo imaging, depending on the type of space you're recording in).

The MK 4 also has a somewhat more extended high-frequency range than the MK 4 V has. The vertical capsules in general have response to 20 kHz, but it is somewhat rolled off above 16 kHz, while the MK 4 is essentially flat to 20 kHz. That difference isn't particularly audible to anyone that I know of, but some people are "specification hounds" so I thought that I should mention it.

--best regards
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 08:57:01 PM by DSatz »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 02:20:18 PM »
OK, gang, since I mentioned polar diagrams--attached is a set of polar diagrams for the figure-8 pattern of a high-quality, multi-pattern condenser microphone from one of the very top manufacturers. In this particular diagram, the 1 kHz curve (the solid line) is shown on both the left and right sides so that the various dotted and dashed lines (representing other frequencies) can be compared directly to it at any angle. The highest frequencies--8 kHz and 12.5 kHz--are given on the left side, while 4 kHz is shown on the right side. Since the polar response is essentially symmetrical at any given frequency, there is no real need to draw all the curves all the way around the circle; that would only make the image more crowded.

Now, let's pretend for the sake of discussion that the 0° frequency response of this microphone was perfectly flat (which in reality it wasn't). The principle of a polar diagram is that the pattern shown for each frequency is based on the 0° sensitivity at that individual frequency, so the assumption of a flat 0° response simplifies things for us a little.

On the basis of that assumption, what can we tell about the microphone's high-frequency response at 45° off-axis? (If you record with crossed figure-8s with 90° between the main axes of the microphones, you would normally aim your microphones so that the center of the direct sound sources would be 45° off-axis for both microphones, i.e. one would be "aimed" 45° to the left of center and other would be "aimed" 45° to the right of center.) Given what we can tell from this diagram, do you think this is likely to be a good choice of microphone for that method of stereo recording?

--best regards
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 02:24:23 PM by DSatz »
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stevetoney

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 01:26:44 PM »
Given what we can tell from this diagram, do you think this is likely to be a good choice of microphone for that method of stereo recording?

OK, I'd like to continue this 'lesson', so I'll step forward and make a fool of myself since nobody else will.   :P

Notwithstanding the fact that a KM86 mic probably is a nice sounding microphone, I'm gonna guess that this would NOT necessarily be the best choice of mic to use for Blumlein recording since the pattern for the high frequencies is not uniformly circular for the off-axis response.  Since the amount of skew appears to be the greatest at 45 degree off-axis, it stands to reason that when putting two mics at 45 degrees (as with Blumlein), that means that the highest frequencies will have their response skewed the greatest for sounds coming from straight ahead...and since the other frequencies don't have a similar skew, can't this can lead to stereo imaging issues?

Doesn't this then mean that two sounds of different frequencies coming from the same place might end up sounding in the recording like they're coming from two different places?  IOW, if a singer songwriter is playing his acoustic guitar on stage directly in front of a pair of crossed KM86s (therefore, at 45 degrees off-axis from either mic...which is the point of the most high frequency skew), his voice and bass notes might be in one place in the stereo image and the high guitar notes might be in another?!?  (This is a question, not a statement.)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 05:24:50 PM »
The diagram illustrates two things:

  • The mic's response across different frequencies off-axis relative to those same frequencies on-axis.
  • The mic's response across different frequencies at a single point (well, degree) off-axis.

In the case of #1, for example, if we compare 1 kHz on-axis vs. ±45º off-axis, we see that the response for 1 kHz on-axis at 0º is 0 dB, but off-axis at ±45º is approximately -3 dB.  So 1 kHz sound arriving at the mic ±45º off-axis is -3 dB quieter than 1 kHz sound arriving at the mic on-axis.  Similarly, 12.5 kHz is -5 dB quieter at ±45º than it is on-axis at ±0º.  Etc.

In the case of #2, for example, if we compare all frequencies on-axis at 0º, the response is 0 dB for all frequencies on the diagram:

  • 0 dB at 125 Hz
  • 0 dB at 1 kHz
  • 0 dB at 4 kHz
  • 0 dB at 8 kHz
  • 0 dB at 12.5 kHz

If you place these values on a frequency response plot (as opposed to a polar diagram), this produces the typical "flat line" you see in most plots.  (see attached freqresponseplot0deg)

However, at ±45º off-axis, the response is no longer flat.  Instead, the values at those same frequencies are:

  • -3 dB at 125 Hz
  • -3 dB for 1 kHz
  • -3 dB for 4 kHz
  • +1 dB at 8 kHz
  • -5 dB at 12.5 kHz

If we place these values on the same frequency response plot as above, we no longer see a flat, horizontal line.  Instead, we see a significant peak at 8 kHz, and then a deep drop at 12.5 kHz.  (see attached freqresponseplot45deg)

I won't speak to whether or not the mic referenced by DSatz is well-suited to Blumlein recording, as to the best of my knowledge ALL figure-8 mics exhibit similar characteristics at ±45º off-axis, i.e. they are not flat.  Perhaps the mic in question is especially not flat in this regard, I can't say as I've not compared to other figure-8 mics.
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stevetoney

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 10:03:47 AM »


Thanks for the explanation Brian.  So, the above is the polar diagram for the Schoeps MK8/CCM8.  If I were to create a similar set of tables for this capsule, it would read as follows...

on-axis at 0º

  • 0 dB up to 2 kHz
  • 0 dB at 4 kHz
  • 0 dB at 8 kHz
  • 0 dB at 16 kHz

at ±45º off-axis

  • -3 dB up to 2kHz
  • -3 dB at 4 kHz
  • -4.5 dB for 8 kHz
  • -6 dB at 16 kHz

So, how do you apply this information?

One thing I notice in comparing the Schoeps against the Neumann is that, the 45 degree response of the Schoeps is a linear drop.  As pointed out in the previous post, the Neumann has a non-linear peak in the 8kHz range.  Again, I'd think that might end up influencing imaging at that frequency, such as when Figure 8's are crossed. 

Otherwise, I suppose the best thing one can do is understand how to read the graphs and then apply the data to a particular recording situation to optimize a desired result...whatever that may be.


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Re: just curious...
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 10:19:45 AM »
So, how do you apply this information?

One thing I notice in comparing the Schoeps against the Neumann is that, the 45 degree response of the Schoeps is a linear drop.  As pointed out in the previous post, the Neumann has a non-linear peak in the 8kHz range.  Again, I'd think that might end up influencing imaging at that frequency, such as when Figure 8's are crossed. 

Otherwise, I suppose the best thing one can do is understand how to read the graphs and then apply the data to a particular recording situation to optimize a desired result...whatever that may be.

While not perfect, there are three things I think about when I setup (almost in this order):

1) stereo image width/source (how wide is my desired source, stage lip, or am I further back?)
2) Accoustic environment (will I have a reflection, if so, from where. What surface will it reflect off of?)
3) Polar pattern & off axis response (given 1 & 2, do I want a brighter tape, or a darker tape). My 930s have a brighter off axis effect that I keep in mind while setting up.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: just curious...
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2010, 11:15:58 AM »
Let me suggest a simpler way to read these: Try using the 1 kHz response at any given angle as a basis. Most microphones are classified according to the pattern they have at 1 kHz, even when their pattern at other frequencies is different.

I asked people to assume that the KM 86 is flat on axis. Given that assumption, you can read its frequency response at other angles from the polar diagram by noting the difference between the 1 kHz response and each of the other frequencies shown.

Brian, you read the following values for the KM 86 at 45°:
•-3 dB at 125 Hz
•-3 dB for 1 kHz
•-3 dB for 4 kHz
•+1 dB at 8 kHz
•-5 dB at 12.5 kHz

Adjust these so that 1 kHz is your baseline (since the response of a figure-8 is inherently -3 dB at 45° anyway), and you get:

•flat at 125 Hz
•flat at 1 kHz
•flat at 4 kHz

... which is excellent, but then:

•+4 dB at 8 kHz
•-2 dB at 12.5 kHz

... which is a substantial peak followed by a 6 dB rolloff only half an octave higher (i.e. a rather steep rolloff)--and most important, a substantial difference in high-frequency response from the response on-axis.

The whole basic principle of coincident and near-coincident stereo recording depends on the microphones having (as far as possible) the same frequency response off-axis as on-axis. Good figure-8 microphones are the clearest examples of this, since they really can have the same frequency response for nearly all angles of sound incidence. (Fans of the "Blumlein" stereo recording method have a real point in this regard.)

But the original question was about cardioids, so as soon as the dust has settled on this example (I'd like to make sure everyone understands tonedeaf's question and its answer), I'd like to post a couple prominent examples of cardioids. There are two general "families" with remarkably different polar diagrams--so I hope that will get us to some really useful observations.

--best regards
« Last Edit: October 23, 2010, 07:31:54 PM by DSatz »
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Offline raoulduke

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Re: just curious... (polar pattern info)
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2015, 06:07:58 AM »
David, any chance of continuing this dialogue and posting the cardioid examples?

Offline DSatz

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Re: just curious... (polar pattern info)
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 12:41:32 PM »
Sure. Thanks for asking. Here's an introduction, with more to come.

Just to review, the point of this discussion is to look at real-world characteristics of particular microphones, on the understanding that we don't record with ideal instruments. We choose (or in my opinion, ought to choose) our microphones and recording techniques based on what the microphones really do when you put them someplace and turn them on. Polar patterns can be a fundamental part of that process of choice if they're provided at various frequencies across the audio range; a 1 kHz polar graph by itself tells you something, but not usually very much. And some of the most useful information from polar graphs comes into focus only when you combine them with the same microphone's frequency response graph--usually mentally, although it can also be done on paper (a very useful exercise when you're learning the technique).

Manufacturers could make this a bit easier if they provided frequency response graphs for various important angles of incidence, all plotted on the same piece of graph paper. You'd still need some understanding to interpret a graph like that; colored inks would probably be needed to clarify which trace is which when they overlap or cross. But I think the reason this isn't generally done is that no one wants to go first--such curves would expose a lot of information, some of which could be unsettling to potential customers. So we're left with the system we have, in which a bit of thinking is required to bring out the relevant information--just enough to fend off the grubby masses and allow the information to be "hidden in plain sight."

--OK. I said a few messages back that there are two distinct kinds of cardioid condenser microphones. (Actually one of those kinds has two "sub-kinds" but we'll get to that later.) And the first thing I'd like to say is about the relationship of "cardioidness" to the real world.

"Cardioid" is a shape with a clear, simple definition in analytic geometry, just like a line, circle, square, tetrahedron, etc.--but as far as the physics of transducers is concerned, a cardioid pattern isn't elementary, in the sense that omnidirectional and figure-8 are elementary. No transducer ever created has a naturally-occurring cardioid pattern, either of transmission (radiation) or reception. Instead, every cardioid transducer is either an omnidirectional or a figure-8 transducer with shaping elements applied to it, or it is a combination of transducers arranged so that the net result approximates a cardioid. Cardioid microphones aren't direct manifestations of a particular ideal, nor is there is any natural tendency for "cardioid" microphones to obey any such supposed ideal; all that exists are practical adaptations that use various techniques to approximate a cardioid response with varying degrees of accuracy. The main deviation consists of microphones that are cardioid in the midrange, but not at lower and/or higher frequencies.

And no law of the market compels microphone designers to place any higher value on a true cardioid pattern than on other desirable features; actually, there are market forces working strongly in the opposite direction. So if a manufacturer chooses to work for a clean cardioid pattern across the audio frequency range, that requires a particular set of commitments on their part, at some cost. It's definitely not the default.

So, despite the fact that most studio microphones are either classed as cardioids or are used almost exclusively as cardioids even when they have other pattern settings available, "cardioid" isn't anything fundamental in the physics of microphones. It is just a theoretical midpoint or blend or average between the two fundamental modes of response for acoustical transducers, which are "pressure" response (= omnidirectional) and "velocity" (a/k/a "pressure gradient") (= figure-8) response. If you look at the historical development of condenser microphones, or ribbon microphones for that matter, you'll see that omnidirectional and figure-8 transducers come first, with cardioids coming along later as modifications or hybridizations of the two. The earliest literature for cardioid ribbons and condenser microphones treats their "unidirectional" pattern as something almost miraculous. ("Unidirectional" should thus be understood not as "pointing in one direction like a flashlight," but as a variant of the bidirectional pickup pattern that every studio engineer was familiar with back then--particularly the users of ribbon microphones, the dominant type in American broadcasting and film sound for decades.)

--I'll post this now, and I promise to get back to the main topic in the next message. Thanks for reading this far, those who have.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 12:49:58 PM by DSatz »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 09:22:56 PM »
--OK, The main distinction that I want to draw first is based on the way the cardioid pattern is obtained. There are two general approaches to capsule design for cardioids, both of which run into fundamental problems starting around the resonant frequency of the system. But the older approach also has a real problem at low and low-mid frequencies, while the other, more modern approach solves that problem nicely.

The thing is, not everyone wants that low-frequency problem to be solved. Some people may not even see it as a problem, based on the way they use microphones. I think that people who use cardioids for coincident or closely-spaced stereo recordings need to see it as a big problem, however (see explanation below).

So: I'd like to use as my examples three "vintage" Neumann microphones that are well known among studio engineers. And by the way, when I say studio engineers, I don't mean to imply any particular level of professionalism or technical awareness; I just mean to differentiate the majority of their type of work, and their typical microphone usage, from live, on-location stereo recording and the way we use microphones in that kind of situation. Microphones that might be the greatest in the world for one type of recording might not be very high on the list for the other.

The first, and historically earliest, of the microphones I want to show you is the U 47. It was introduced after World War II, but its capsule (the "M 7") was an older design, having been introduced ca. 1932 as one of the options for their modular system at the time (using the CMV 3a amplifier). 80+ years later, both Neumann/Berlin and Microtech Gefell still manufacture the M 7 in updated versions and sell microphones based on it. It's a dual-diaphragm capsule with a shared backplate. Some of the holes in the backplate go all the way through, so that the air cushions behind the two diaphragms communicate with one another--the so-called "Braunmühl-Weber" capsule type. (Dr. Hans Joachim von Braunmühl and Walter Weber of the Reichsrundfunk-Gesellschaft published a highly influential textbook on applied acoustics in 1936; this type of capsule is shown on page 56 of their book, the relevant part of which is shown below. I'll translate the text as a P.S. to this message, since it's interesting in a number of respects.)

Anyway, if you look at the midrange polar diagrams you see something that's not quite cardioid--there is a tendency toward supercardioid. If you go upward in frequency you see a distinct narrowing of the pattern, consistent with the size of the diaphragm (slightly above 1" diameter). But the main thing I'd like people to notice is what's happening at mid-to-low frequencies: The diagram looks like what we would call a "wide cardioid" pattern nowadays.

In studio applications (e.g. solo vocals or spot miking of an instrument), the narrowing at mid-to-high frequencies gives the microphone extra focus on whatever it's pointing toward. (Its 0° frequency response also includes a generous "presence peak" as shown.) The extra pickup around the sides and back at low and low-mid frequencies means that more room sound is included, giving increased depth, warmth and roundness to the sound. This is one of the most widely imitated studio condenser microphone types.

But it would be a horrible choice for coincident or near-coincident stereo pickup, because this spreading out of the pattern at low and low-mid frequencies would make the recording nearly monophonic in that range. The sense of spaciousness in a stereo recording depends critically on preserving the full difference information between the two channels at low frequencies. So this is a clear example of a microphone that is greatly admired in the one realm but nearly useless in the other. (If you enjoy the boosted lows and low-mids, my suggestion would be to record with microphones that have a cleaner pattern and then apply EQ to your liking in post-production. The stereo effect is much better that way.)

By the way, the U 47 was a switchable-pattern microphone; if its rear diaphragm was polarized at the same time as the front diaphragm, it would pick up sound from the rear as well as the front in like polarity. I wouldn't exactly call the resulting pattern "omnidirectional" because of its substantial irregularity, but it was used as an omni sometimes, and it was definitely better to have the option than not to have it. -- In the late 1950s Neumann introduced a variant of the U 47 called the U 48, using the same capsule; it had switchable cardioid and figure-8 patterns. But capsules for the U 48 had to be specially selected for symmetry between their front and back faces, so that the figure-8 pattern would have its null at 90° rather than being skewed one way or the other.

--best regards

P.S.: Rough translation of page 56 (the German seems pretentious and tiresome even to me): As was indicated in section c for the dynamic microphone principle, a microphone arrangement with a one-sided directional effect can also be achieved on the capacitive principle through a combination of the capacitive pressure-gradient microphone with a normal condenser microphone. (Note both the use of "normal" to mean what we would call "omnidirectional" today, and the use of "microphone" where we would say "capsule". The capsule referred to is a large-diaphragm pressure transducer, which because of its size, is omnidirectional only at low and mid frequencies. Its pattern begins to narrow in the upper midrange and it ends up being quite "beamy" on top. Maybe that's why they didn't call its pattern omnidirectional or "spherical". --DS) This is especially simple to carry out with an arrangement as shown in figure 50. Sound pressure causes two force components to affect the two membranes. The sound pressure produces a membrane displacement that corresponds to the change in the enclosed air volume; the two membranes may move toward one another or away from one another. On the other hand, the pressure gradient produces a membrane motion in the same direction, and thereby a parallel displacement of the contained air volume without significantly compressing it. By means of a suitably dimensioned microphone body (again meaning capsule; from here on I'll just write capsule without noting it --DS), the displacements caused by both effects can be made equal to one another. When both components of motion occur in the same direction, as when a sound comes from the front, the displacements add. But when a sound comes from behind the capsule, a quantitative compensation occurs; the capsule's sensitivity reduces to null.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 09:12:53 AM by DSatz »
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 08:19:12 PM »
Hint: You're getting the main technical point of the above very long message if:
(a) you can see from the polar diagram that the treble is beamy and the bass is spread way out, and if:
(b) you can reason your way from there to the realization that this microphone's response must be bass-heavy and treble-shy the farther you get off-axis, and if:
(c) you understand that the sound quality picked up by this type of microphone will vary tremendously depending on the proportion of direct vs. reverberant sound it is picking up (because reverberant sound tends to come from all angles at once, and has generally bounced off of many surfaces which cause it to lose energy in the treble, while direct sound generally tends to come from within 45 to 60 degrees of the main axis and has not had its high frequency energy absorbed through reflection).

Thus the U 47 is fine as a solo or spot microphone anywhere where the on-axis sound is much stronger than anything it might pick up from off-axis--or conversely where it's far enough away from the direct sound sources so that all the direct sound is essentially on-axis. These situations occur in studios and in mono recording/broadcasting, as well as public address situations. Live stereo recording with a pair of closely-spaced or coincident microphones, on the other hand, would be the near-antithesis of situations in which this type of microphone might be appropriate.

--OK. The second type of microphone (or microphone capsule) that I want to show you is Neumann's 1960 follow-up to the M 7. The vacuum tube used in the U 47 was discontinued by Telefunken, stereo recording had become predominant, and studio miking techniques had changed (e.g. vocals were more closely miked than before); plus Neumann had acquired some consciousness of modern marketing, in part through the influence of their new U.S. importer and distributor (until around 1957 they had been represented here exclusively by Telefunken, which always put its own brand name on all the AKG, Schoeps, Neumann, Beyer and Sennheiser microphones that they sold).

The new microphone was initially called the U 60, but after the first batch was produced and some circuit changes were made, it was renamed the U 67 (i.e. "the U 47 for the 60s"), and its capsule was called the K 67. Its capsule works more or less like the M 7, and it has some of the same technical shortcomings generally. But it is manufactured in a more rational way, given Neumann's decision to offer the three basic directional settings on all microphones rather than to have separate versions for cardioid+omni and cardioid+figure-8. Instead of a shared backplate for the two membranes, each membrane now has its own, thinner backplate. These membrane-and-backplate combinations could be made up in batches and then sorted by sensitivity and frequency response into some number of bins. All the half-capsules in any one sorting bin would then match one another within some reasonable tolerance limit, and could be built into one complete capsule, instead of having to accept the luck of whatever front-back symmetry an M 7 might or might not possess.

The capsule's "native" frequency response has a substantial rise at high frequencies, which is tamed by filter circuitry in the microphone's electronics. Later on when the solid-state version of the U 67 (called the "U 87" because it was part of their "fet 80" series) was introduced, this "taming" was relaxed a bit so that the new model would sound just a bit brighter than the old one (a difference that was mistakenly ascribed to "transistor vs. tube sound" by some engineers, unfortunately). -- Much more recently, Neumann has issued a solid-state version called the TLM 67 that has deliberately created "tube-and-transformer-like" distortion at high sound pressure levels, and that also restores the U 67's original high-frequency response curve.

Anyway, I'm including this microphone because the U 67 and U 87 and their variants have been so influential in studio recording history. This capsule's polar characteristics are still a lot like those of the M 7, but they've taken a definite step toward greater uniformity across the frequency range. Neumann used (and still uses) this capsule type in coincident stereo microphones and even in a quad microphone that they made for a while; previously, the only capsule they ever used in stereo microphones was a small-diaphragm type ("Neumann Gefell" used their version of the M 7 in a coincident stereo microphone called the ZUM 64, but it was their only capsule type that could be given switchable patterns).

The attached frequency response diagram for the U 67 is nice because it also shows the frequency response at the rear of the capsule in the cardioid setting. The scale is the same as the 0-degree response, so in a way this is the answer to part of our implied homework assignment (i.e. you should be able to deduce certain points on the 180-degree response graph from the 0-degree response plus the polar diagram.) Of course the ideal would be if the two curves were parallel. Or if the suppression of sound was great enough so that nothing is audible anyway, then the exact degree of suppression wouldn't matter. But at low and high frequencies that obviously isn't the case here. That is a fundamental problem in all directional microphones, but especially cardioids--and among cardioids, especially with dual-diaphragm designs.

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 09:15:55 AM by DSatz »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 12:47:36 PM »
Thanks for going over this clearly and in such depth.
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Offline raoulduke

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 11:45:25 AM »
Thanks for going over this clearly and in such depth.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2015, 03:45:03 PM »
Thanks for the kind words. I'd intended to post one more analysis of a specific Neumann cardioid's polar response in this thread (the KM 84 and its siblings), but my mother passed away last Sunday so I spent the week helping to close out her apartment in Pittsburgh. (Shout out to any Pittsburgh-area tapers who may be here; I'm originally from north of there.)

Now that I'm back home, I've posted a reply in the Microphones & Setup thread, "I have MK2's - Need Advice On Active Cables and a Tinybox" which discusses the practical effect of polar response in the selection of omnidirectional microphones or capsules. Maybe I should have posted it here and posted the reference there, but in this thread I was asked about cardioids, and in that thread the OP has a pair of Schoeps MK 2 capsules.

When I've rested up some more, I'll post what I was going to write about the KM 84 et al. Unlike the above two (the U 47 and the U 67/U 87, both absolute classics in the studio world and also for voiceover applications, which is another form of spot/solo miking), it's an example of a cardioid with very desirable characteristics for live stereo recording in at least moderately reverberant spaces with coincident or closely-spaced mike setups.

--best regards
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 06:35:38 AM by DSatz »
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Offline TSNéa

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2015, 06:04:16 PM »
People like me have some "pieces" of knowledge, people like you have ("almost" to honor your modesty...) all the pieces plus the links between them: that makes a LOT of difference!

Thank you for sharing, I really appreciate.

Offline phil_er_up

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Re: Understanding Polar Pattern diagrams.
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2015, 03:41:22 PM »
Thank you for your time and effort DSatz. It is appreciated.
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