Topic: Stealth recording ... cards or omnis?

[Ach3r0n]

I came upon an old post where someone raised this question and suggested omnis would be better if you planned on moving around and such.  I was wondering what the current thoughts are on it.  If I were to go stealth with the primary purpose being to enjoy the show (might be moving around , etc), should I still go with cards or would omnis be better?  Thanks!

[achalsey]

Definitely omnis if you're moving around, though either way its not going to come out particularly good unless you're moving during parts you don't really care about listening to later.

[Ach3r0n]

Well I won't intentionally be moving around much, but the show is general admission, standing room only and I will be up front.  It is also outdoors.  At the moment, I'm mainly trying to plan for this show and then based on how it goes will figure out where to go in the future.

[Belexes]

- Outdoors
- Up front

Omnis would be my choice.

[deadheadcorey]

- Outdoors
- Up front

Omnis would be my choice.

I second this.

If ya where inside I would go with cards every time....

[aaronji]

If ya where inside I would go with cards every time....

Why?  There are definitely situations (depending on type of music, crowd, venue, location, etc.) where omnis sound great indoors...

[Belexes]

Omnis indoors are fine when all the variables are perfect. Quiet crowd around you, mics are in the 'sweet spot' in the room, and the room itself has excellent acoustics.  I rarely get into that situation when I tape indoors, so I opt most of the time for cardioids. 

[sparkey]

hypers all the way

[F.O.Bean]

hypers all the way

[Cheesecadet]

I use omnis most all the time whether I am indoors or outdoors.  If you are in close proximity to the stage they sound fantastic.  I usually will be about 15 - 30 feet from stage and those recordings have smoked my cards from the same distance every time.  The added bonus of not standing like a mic stand is a plus too.

I would use cards or hypers if I was far from stage though...anything beyond 40 feet or so.  YMMV

[aaronji]

It's sort of the gospel here that omnis will only sound good in a near-perfect setting ("Omnis indoors are fine when all the variables are perfect. Quiet crowd around you, mics are in the 'sweet spot' in the room, and the room itself has excellent acoustics," as Belexes put it).  In my experience, though, omnis can sound excellent in less than ideal settings too.  One important factor, as Cheesecadet said, is proximity.  In rooms with poor acoustics, for example, getting closer increases the ratio of direct to reverberant sound and makes the room much less of a factor (boundary mounting can also be useful in that respect).  Chatter is also often minimized as an issue close-up, at least for fairly loud shows.   

For much of the music I record (mostly jazz), the low-end isn't hyped like at most rock shows and the (generally better) low-end response of omnis is a real plus.  By contrast, my card jazz recordings have often sounded a little thin bass-wise.

Omnis have their plusses and their minuses.  So do the other polar patterns.  Like I wrote a few posts up, a lot depends on "type of music, crowd, venue, location, etc."  Crowd and venue are usually bigger issues at rock shows than at jazz or classical concerts.  Bottom line: there are no one-size-fits-all answers to this question.  My two cents, YMMV, and all that good stuff...

[Belexes]

Chatter is also often minimized as an issue close-up, at least for fairly loud shows.

That's debatable. Many shows I attend (rock), people are screaming at each other right next to the mains.  Crowd is one variable you may not be able to know until you get to your seat.  That's why I opt for cards if I am stuck to a seat.  Within the last few years I have had audience members bring in their own harmonica's and cowbells. Crazy!?

[Gutbucket]

It's sort of the gospel here that omnis will only sound good in a near-perfect setting ("Omnis indoors are fine when all the variables are perfect. Quiet crowd around you, mics are in the 'sweet spot' in the room, and the room itself has excellent acoustics," as Belexes put it).  In my experience, though, omnis can sound excellent in less than ideal settings too.  One important factor, as Cheesecadet said, is proximity.  In rooms with poor acoustics, for example, getting closer increases the ratio of direct to reverberant sound and makes the room much less of a factor (boundary mounting can also be useful in that respect).  Chatter is also often minimized as an issue close-up, at least for fairly loud shows.   

For much of the music I record (mostly jazz), the low-end isn't hyped like at most rock shows and the (generally better) low-end response of omnis is a real plus.  By contrast, my card jazz recordings have often sounded a little thin bass-wise.

Omnis have their plusses and their minuses.  So do the other polar patterns.  Like I wrote a few posts up, a lot depends on "type of music, crowd, venue, location, etc."  Crowd and venue are usually bigger issues at rock shows than at jazz or classical concerts.  Bottom line: there are no one-size-fits-all answers to this question.  My two cents, YMMV, and all that good stuff...

::thumbs up::

[aaronji]

Chatter is also often minimized as an issue close-up, at least for fairly loud shows.

That's debatable. Many shows I attend (rock), people are screaming at each other right next to the mains.  Crowd is one variable you may not be able to know until you get to your seat.  That's why I opt for cards if I am stuck to a seat.  Within the last few years I have had audience members bring in their own harmonica's and cowbells. Crazy!?

Really, it's not debatable.  I mean, it's physics.  Given a noise source (chatterer) at an arbitrary level and distance and an arbitrary dBSPL from the music, there are two ways to increase the ratio between the music and the noise.  You can either move your mics further away from the noise or increase the dbSPL from the music (or both).  Since you are unlikely to convince the engineer to crank it up so that you can drown out the noise at your location, the way to increase the dBSPL is to move closer to the source.  As sound pressure is proportional to the inverse of distance (1/r), halving the distance between your mics and the source will double the sound pressure, which will increase the ratio between music and noise.  As that ratio increases, the noise will become increasingly less audible.

It's not like this will eliminate chatter in all situations, but it will certainly help to contain it in some...

And cards are not immune to audience noise either.  Those guys screaming in front of the mains?  If it's audible, and you're watching it while recording with cards, they are in front of you, probably more or less on axis, and cards are picking them up just as well as omnis.  Some jerk-off with a cowbell?  Well, not much you can do about that.  Not without security getting involved anyway...

[MJ]

I know it is not easy but you might be able to use a two pair of mics(cards and omnis) even if in steXXth situation….. Up front at the outdoor show, omnis would be my choice but you never know what kind of crowd you would be stuck with.