Topic: Advice on using CA-9100 preamp for first time

[HarpDoc]

Hi guys,

I'm going to use my CA-9100 pre>CA cards>H120 for the first time tomorrow. I'll be recording my band, so I just have to set it up and leave it. I'll let the Safety feature of AGC on the H120 help with this. My question is, if I turn the 9100 pre all the way up, will this be safe or will I risk clipping? In my tests with my home stereo, seems like it can get rediculously loud before the clipping light goes on on the 9100.

Thanks!

[Church-Audio]

Hi guys,

I'm going to use my CA-9100 pre>CA cards>H120 for the first time tomorrow. I'll be recording my band, so I just have to set it up and leave it. I'll let the Safety feature of AGC on the H120 help with this. My question is, if I turn the 9100 pre all the way up, will this be safe or will I risk clipping? In my tests with my home stereo, seems like it can get rediculously loud before the clipping light goes on on the 9100.

Thanks!

It really does depend on how loud your show is going to be. I would say 80% my preamp and the rest the hq120. Hipass filter should be off. And I dont use the AGC.

[HarpDoc]

Thanks Chris. I'll give it a shot.

[bugg100]

I run my 9100 at say 12:00 with unity being 11:00 and +5 to start on the iRiver.  Safety Clip (which is not AGC, Chris ) is appropriate here too.  Good Luck....

Joe

[Church-Audio]

I run my 9100 at say 12:00 with unity being 11:00 and +5 to start on the iRiver.  Safety Clip (which is not AGC, Chris ) is appropriate here too.  Good Luck....

Joe

I know but I still dont like anything controlling the signal besides me... Maybe I am oldfashioned that way....

[bugg100]

I think you are old fashioned in more ways than just this.

Yeah, I'm ok with the control aspect of this for you, but Harpdoc will be in the band..... so every advantage that doesn't screw over his tape should be taken advantage of....

BTW, Harpdoc be sure to turn on the cliplight  function.  That will allow you to run Safety Clip and when that gets to -3 dB the light will come on. If it stays on longer than briefly, you know that it is lowering the gain somewhat.  In fact, I'd sondcheck with the Iriver on to make sure your levels are high enough.  No light, then you need more gain....  Reset to that level (or higher if need be) for the start of the show

Joe

[heyitsmejess]

ive had the best luck with the 9100 turning the gain all the way up, and using minimal gain on the recorder.

but thats just me.

[bhakti]

ive had the best luck with the 9100 turning the gain all the way up, and using minimal gain on the recorder.

but thats just me.

why do you say this? i'm interested. thanks for the advice.

[Belexes]

I've had nothing but bad luck throwing +20 dB on the 9100. It depends on your sound source.  The more quiet /acoustic the performance, the more gain you can get from the 9100.  The higher the SPL's, the more you want to back off on the 9100's gain.

I'm old fashioned like Chris and turn all that "auto" stuff off and run everything manually. YMMV.

[heyitsmejess]

ive had the best luck with the 9100 turning the gain all the way up, and using minimal gain on the recorder.

but thats just me.

why do you say this? i'm interested. thanks for the advice.

show recorded with 9100 all the way up (loud-ish rock show)
http://www.archive.org/details/samples2007-10-03..flac

show recorded with 9100 at unity gain (not loud-ish rock show)
http://www.archive.org/details/cj2007-11-27

dont know the technical reason why, but ive always had better luck (read: i think it sounds better) with the gain on the 9100 all the way, and controlling levels with the recorder.

[Church-Audio]

The main discrepancies over what level is idea stem from the fact that, the level settings rely on three major factors. A- How loud the show is and B- How sensitive your mics are and C- How close you are to the sound source. One could argue that A and C are one in the same but sometimes close proximity to the sound source is not always a problem of sound level but the amount of "wind" coming from the low frequency drivers or sub woofers in the sound system some times overload happens because the mics diaphragm bottoms out on the back plate of the condenser capsule. The space between a diaphragm on a microphone * condenser or electret * is very tiny its measured in microns.

The diaphragm moves in and out in response to the sound wave hitting the microphone and to sympathetic resonation of the mic body it self in some cases. All of these things leads to how far the mic diaphragm will travel and can lead to a mic bottoming out and this does cause distortion. Sometimes we associate this distortion with gain settings but changing gain will never provide a solution to this problem. There are only two solutions to this problem, A- Use a windscreen B- Change your location relative to the speakers. You can also angle your self at 25 degrees to the sound source when your at 90 The transfer of air to the diaphragm is most efficient because the wind hits the diaphragm "HEAD ON". If you angle your mic in relation to the sound source you cause some of the wind to escape around the mic and reduce your chances of wind based distortion. There are of course side effects to this. Your mics off axis response is not the same as your mics on axis response. But when you stay with in 15 to 25 degrees of angle to the sound source you should be ok. Even though bass is omnidirectional the force of air or blast wave from a powerful sub speaker is... So try and think about these things the next time your close to a PA system it will go a long way to reducing your headaches.

[paulbaptiste]

i have the same pre and recorder so figure i'd ask in here. 

Does anyone ever attenuate the signal with the Iriver?  For example if the 9100 all the way open is too much gain would putting the Iriver's gain into the negatives be a bad thing?

[Will_S]

For example if the 9100 all the way open is too much gain would putting the Iriver's gain into the negatives be a bad thing?

Yes.  Some folks think the iRiver sounds ok down to -3dB or so but I'd keep to 0dB or above to be safe, it may just be they don't mind the sound of mild clipping.

[Church-Audio]

i have the same pre and recorder so figure i'd ask in here. 

Does anyone ever attenuate the signal with the Iriver?  For example if the 9100 all the way open is too much gain would putting the Iriver's gain into the negatives be a bad thing?

If you find your self in a situation where you need to attenuate the h120. Attenuate my preamp.. Because its better to use analog attenuation then digital attenuation. IMO..... And if your already at unity you really are getting to much gain from my preamp and you should back it down a bit on the preamp to avoid overloading the line input of your H120.

Chris

[paulbaptiste]

i have the same pre and recorder so figure i'd ask in here. 

Does anyone ever attenuate the signal with the Iriver?  For example if the 9100 all the way open is too much gain would putting the Iriver's gain into the negatives be a bad thing?

If you find your self in a situation where you need to attenuate the h120. Attenuate my preamp.. Because its better to use analog attenuation then digital attenuation. IMO..... And if your already at unity you really are getting to much gain from my preamp and you should back it down a bit on the preamp to avoid overloading the line input of your H120.

Chris

Thanks for the replies +T.   Just trying to undertstand this fully.  Even at a loud show, do i want some gain from my Iriver as opposed to all gain from my pre?  I thought the whole idea was to circumvent the pre in my recorder?  when does the signal become to hot that it may overload my Iriver?  and for my curiosity what's it sound like?  Do I clip, get too hot on the pre, @ +20, when my iriver is @ zero?