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Author Topic: So, why do you run a pre?  (Read 7761 times)

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Offline Massive Dynamic

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So, why do you run a pre?
« on: September 30, 2005, 12:30:42 PM »
     I sold my pmod UA-5 a few months ago after I decided I didn't like how it sounded with my mics, and started using Hosa MIT-176 line transformers instead. I recorded a whole festival using either Audix M1290 > PS-2 > MIT-176 > modSBM > M1 or Peluso CEMC6 > PS-2 > modSBM > M1. I had plenty of gain with the Audix, the Peluso's were so hot I could run line in, and I never needed an HPF.
     Would my recordings have really sounded better using a V3, or would I be better off skipping the pre entirely and putting any extra money I have into better mics?
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Offline Brian

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2005, 12:37:59 PM »
do whatever sounds best to your ears.

personally, I like having a preamp. :)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2005, 12:38:35 PM »
Would my recordings have really sounded better using a V3, or would I be better off skipping the pre entirely and putting any extra money I have into better mics?

A V3 would reveal the limitations of your mics.  IMO, the MIT-176s provide nice clean, inexpensive gain.  The modSBM-1 is one of the better 16-bit ADCs.  So you're far better off upgrading the mics.
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Offline Massive Dynamic

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2005, 12:51:55 PM »
A V3 would reveal the limitations of your mics.  IMO, the MIT-176s provide nice clean, inexpensive gain.  The modSBM-1 is one of the better 16-bit ADCs.  So you're far better off upgrading the mics.
Well, I'm selling both the Audix and modSBM, and I returned my defective pair of Pelusos. Have you tried running your new 414s line in, yet?
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Offline ScottT

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2005, 01:21:34 PM »
I've been running my Superluxes without a pre for a few months now.  There have been a number of occasions where I did not have enough gain to get the levels where I would like them - even with the AT CP8201 line transformers and the JB3 set to its max (+12dB).  It is for this reason that I'm very excited to get a Busman2-mod UA-5 (thanks to keepongoin' and busman2!!!).

If your mics give you levels you're comfortable with, you can certainly get by without a pre, esp. (as Sax said) if you like what you hear.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2005, 01:35:32 PM »
Well, I'm selling both the Audix and modSBM, and I returned my defective pair of Pelusos. Have you tried running your new 414s line in, yet?

No, I've only run them in to my V3 and T+ UA5, dunno how they'd fare running line-in.  But the XLS are much more sensitive than my old ULS, that's for sure.
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Offline keepongoin

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2005, 01:44:33 PM »
I've been running my Superluxes without a pre for a few months now.  There have been a number of occasions where I did not have enough gain to get the levels where I would like them - even with the AT CP8201 line transformers and the JB3 set to its max (+12dB).  It is for this reason that I'm very excited to get a Busman2-mod UA-5 (thanks to keepongoin' and busman2!!!).

If your mics give you levels you're comfortable with, you can certainly get by without a pre, esp. (as Sax said) if you like what you hear.

that UA-5 should arrive at busman2's house today if it isn't there already.  i sent it UPS ground.
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Offline Xpanding Man

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2005, 12:30:49 PM »
Funny, I was just gonna start a new thread here....

I have a related question:  for a new low-weight rig as a secondary option, i've put together MK012s > Rolls 12-48V PS > GP ADC-20 > DATs/Jb3s. 

i always liked the way my oktavas sounded with the DMIC20 i had a while back....any reason the above wouldn't work  out ?
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Offline Cooker

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2005, 12:37:09 PM »
.any reason the above wouldn't work  out ?

not sure but i think you're gonna need line transformers in there.  no gain in the setup you described.

Offline Xpanding Man

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2005, 11:23:34 AM »
is there a link to where i can read more on this ?
The ships of state sail on mirage & drown in sand (R.Hunter)

open: Busman Actives / ADK TL's / MK012s > V3 > DR70 / iRiver
stealth: AT 943 > Church Uglybox > Tascam DR2

Being Taped: 
Guitars: PRS Custom 24, Olsondoc (Languedoc Copy), Mod Midi Strat, SG, 335, etc. 
Effects: Too many
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe II
Acoustics: Martin D-35 / Gitane DG-250 (Selmer Style) / Kick-Ass German Archtop (Glasl)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2005, 11:45:13 AM »
is there a link to where i can read more on this ?

Read more on...what, exactly?
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Offline Xpanding Man

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2005, 12:19:34 PM »
is there a link to where i can read more on this ?

Read more on...what, exactly?

if/why someone would need line transformers if they were running straight from a 48V PS (like my rolls) > an ADC-20, using the gain stage from the ADC-20 to get proper levels....
The ships of state sail on mirage & drown in sand (R.Hunter)

open: Busman Actives / ADK TL's / MK012s > V3 > DR70 / iRiver
stealth: AT 943 > Church Uglybox > Tascam DR2

Being Taped: 
Guitars: PRS Custom 24, Olsondoc (Languedoc Copy), Mod Midi Strat, SG, 335, etc. 
Effects: Too many
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe II
Acoustics: Martin D-35 / Gitane DG-250 (Selmer Style) / Kick-Ass German Archtop (Glasl)

Offline Brian

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2005, 12:22:46 PM »
is there a link to where i can read more on this ?

Read more on...what, exactly?

if/why someone would need line transformers if they were running straight from a 48V PS (like my rolls) > an ADC-20, using the gain stage from the ADC-20 to get proper levels....

does the adc-20 have preamps as well? i can't remember

if yes: then there is not a need for line transformers.  the question is...will you be able to tweak the gain to your recorder for optimal recording levels? does the adc-20 have variable gain?

if no:  then line transformers will be needed to up the mike level to a line level to feed the adc-20.

Offline Xpanding Man

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2005, 12:30:56 PM »
i want your (brian) sax ! 
sax is natural, sax is fun
sax is best when it's one on one   ;D ;D

thanks man, i'll ask John R if he knows .... i know there's no 48V phantom power, but there is a way to adjust levels, not sure if that qualifies or not....i'm a llama
The ships of state sail on mirage & drown in sand (R.Hunter)

open: Busman Actives / ADK TL's / MK012s > V3 > DR70 / iRiver
stealth: AT 943 > Church Uglybox > Tascam DR2

Being Taped: 
Guitars: PRS Custom 24, Olsondoc (Languedoc Copy), Mod Midi Strat, SG, 335, etc. 
Effects: Too many
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe II
Acoustics: Martin D-35 / Gitane DG-250 (Selmer Style) / Kick-Ass German Archtop (Glasl)

Offline Brian

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2005, 12:36:39 PM »
i want your (brian) sax ! 
sax is natural, sax is fun
sax is best when it's one on one   ;D ;D

thanks man, i'll ask John R if he knows .... i know there's no 48V phantom power, but there is a way to adjust levels, not sure if that qualifies or not....i'm a llama

then it doesn't have preamps but has variable gain *line in*

you'll need transformers if you are going directly into your adc-20

Offline Xpanding Man

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2005, 12:56:47 PM »
sweet bri, swisher sweet ! thanks again....where can i pick those up ?  the love shack ?
The ships of state sail on mirage & drown in sand (R.Hunter)

open: Busman Actives / ADK TL's / MK012s > V3 > DR70 / iRiver
stealth: AT 943 > Church Uglybox > Tascam DR2

Being Taped: 
Guitars: PRS Custom 24, Olsondoc (Languedoc Copy), Mod Midi Strat, SG, 335, etc. 
Effects: Too many
Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe II
Acoustics: Martin D-35 / Gitane DG-250 (Selmer Style) / Kick-Ass German Archtop (Glasl)

Offline Brian

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2005, 01:01:18 PM »
a fellow st. louis taper uses these: AT CP8201   i'd recomend them or any brand other than the Hosa's ;)

do a froogle.com search.  you can find them for around 10 bucks a pop

Offline mhibbs

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2005, 07:17:39 PM »
i want your (brian) sax ! 
sax is natural, sax is fun
sax is best when it's one on one   ;D ;D

thanks man, i'll ask John R if he knows .... i know there's no 48V phantom power, but there is a way to adjust levels, not sure if that qualifies or not....i'm a llama

then it doesn't have preamps but has variable gain *line in*

you'll need transformers if you are going directly into your adc-20


Are we talking about the Denecke AD-20 or the Graham Patten ADC-20?  There is always confusion around the model numbers.  The Denecke actually DOES have a preamp and may in fact be fine w/ no transformers.  The Graham Patten does not have a preamp and would likely require transformers to get enough gain.  Better yet, do you know if it looks like this?  http://www.denecke.com/images/ad20.jpg


Here's a quote from Denecke on theirs...

"The AD-20 is a high quality battery operated microphone preamp coupled with a low noise 20 bit ADC. The SPDIF outputs are optical and coaxial and can drive standard consumer DAT machines or computers that accept digital audio I/O cards, such as the Zefiro ZA-2.  The main use for the AD-20 is location recording.  Most low cost DAT machines have noisy front ends and a good preamp with a higher bit converter can improve the signal to noise by up to 15dB."


Mitch
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 07:19:40 PM by mhibbs »
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Offline cgrooves

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Re: So, why do you run a pre?
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2005, 12:30:07 PM »
I've been pleased by using line transformers in lieu of a pre as well.  Only reason that I would want a pre, would be to warm up the sound.  The AT's are a bit bright to my ears, but I'm pleased for the most part.
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