Topic: Cable Comparison with The Mic Hybrid & Hydra mic cables

[cshepherd]

There's a first set / second set comparison recording with The Hydra's available courtesy of Dennis Tyler.  Thanks for your efforts, Dennis.

edit:  Opinions welcome.

Chris

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=504774
Umphrey's McGee
March 2nd, 2007
Bijou Theater
Knoxville, TN

1st set: Schoeps CMC6/MK4>Hydra XLR>Oade ACM Marantz 660
2nd set: Schoeps CMC6/MK4>Van Den Hul Mic Hybrid XLR>Oade ACM Marantz 660

Center Orchestra, Row J, Seat 16(DFC, FOB) DIN, ~9ft high

CF>HD>CDWAV>FLAC

Taped and Transfered by Dennis Tyler(dennistyler3819@yahoo.com)

A big thanks goes out to Jon McLennand for the ticket and to Kevin Browning(sound caresser)

There is an audible "crackle" that was present in the PA system at the show. It is most commonly heard during Brendan's vocals. This crackle is present on other taper's copies. This recording came out great so i decided to seed it even with the occasional crackle. The crackles are few and far between. This is also a cable comp between Hydra silver XLRs and Van Den Hul Mic Hybrid cables. If you would like info on either cables please email me. Thanks and enjoy!

[cshepherd]

The show is now up on the Archive.  For those just wanting to sample a couple of tracks, I think these two make for a good comparison.

Chris


Set 1 / Track 8 - Nothing Too Fancy  http://www.archive.org/download/um2007.03.02.flac16/um2007-03-02d1t08.flac

Set 2 / Track 6 - Hurt Bird Bath  http://www.archive.org/download/um2007.03.02.flac16/um2007-03-02d2t06.flac

edit:  Streaming mp3's are also available at http://www.archive.org/details/um2007.03.02.flac16

[cshepherd]

I just saw these comments posted on the BT thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80653.msg1075916.html#msg1075916) for the show and thought they should be repeated over here.  Thanks for the comments, Shane. 

Just to be clear, The Mic Hybrid cables are $125 - $150 more than the various mil-spec silver clad cables that everyone uses.  Special introductory pricing is available for a limited time.  Check the Mic Hybrid thread in the retail forum for details.  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,77224.0.html

Chris

For anyone that thinks that cables don't make a difference or a good cable is a good cable and a bad one is a bad, download this show and compare the two sets.  I'm not a big fan of Umphreys McGee but I checked this show out just to hear the difference in the cables.  The first set doesn't sound bad.  In fact it sounds pretty good.  That is until you listen to the second set.  The music just comes alive with this mic cable.  The sound was fuller, more detailed and was just richer overall.  And this was just listening on computer speakers.  I imagine its only better on disc and played through the stereo.  Anyone else compare the two and have thoughts?  Great tape Dennis, now how's about going out and taping a band I like

Shane 

[Brian Skalinder]

Hmmm...I don't see the comments on the BT thread linked in the original post. 

Downloading a couple tracks now just for kicks.  Still would like to hear a more controlled comparison - too many variables in this one: was the mic stand the same height, orientation of the mics the same relative to source, did the sound engineer make any tweaks, did the crowd empty out or pack in for the 2nd set, etc. - but this will be fun listening, anyway.

[imgoinmad]

It's clearly difficult to create direct comparisons in the field. I think it's common to have shows where the 2nd set sounds better than the first.

[bgalizio]

It's clearly difficult to create direct comparisons in the field. I think it's common to have shows where the 2nd set sounds better than the first.

Or at least louder (which sounds better to some). I've been to a bunch of shows where I don't touch my levels, but there is a significant volume difference between sets.

I'm interested in hearing this comp when I get home. Thanks for running it, as there aren't many cable comps around.

[Church-Audio]

There's a first set / second set comparison recording with The Hydra's available courtesy of Dennis Tyler.  Thanks for your efforts, Dennis.

edit:  Opinions welcome.

Chris

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=504774
Umphrey's McGee
March 2nd, 2007
Bijou Theater
Knoxville, TN

1st set: Schoeps CMC6/MK4>Hydra XLR>Oade ACM Marantz 660
2nd set: Schoeps CMC6/MK4>Van Den Hul Mic Hybrid XLR>Oade ACM Marantz 660

Center Orchestra, Row J, Seat 16(DFC, FOB) DIN, ~9ft high

CF>HD>CDWAV>FLAC

Taped and Transfered by Dennis Tyler(dennistyler3819@yahoo.com)

A big thanks goes out to Jon McLennand for the ticket and to Kevin Browning(sound caresser)

There is an audible "crackle" that was present in the PA system at the show. It is most commonly heard during Brendan's vocals. This crackle is present on other taper's copies. This recording came out great so i decided to seed it even with the occasional crackle. The crackles are few and far between. This is also a cable comp between Hydra silver XLRs and Van Den Hul Mic Hybrid cables. If you would like info on either cables please email me. Thanks and enjoy!

No offence Chris but you cant have a comparison if your not using the exact same song with the mics in the exact same position. A good test might be placing the mics in a room with a good stereo and playing the same track once with one set of cables then with out disturbing the position of the mics plug in the next set of cables and record the same track again. Then we really could hear the difference.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

No offence Chris but you cant have a comparison if your not using the exact same song with the mics in the exact same position.

I think you can if you are familiar with the rig..  Though it may take a few sources to form an opinion (to reduce the chance of sound changes during 2nd set, etc). I am not familiar with Chris' rig so it will be more difficult.  That he has recommended particular tracks helps.

Ideally the sources are non-PA or are at least stage lip to get some more depth to the sound stage. Plus the balance is better up there

A good test might be placing the mics in a room with a good stereo and playing the same track

I've tried it quite a few times and have never been a big fan.  It can be good for some things (tone) but really falls short on others (sound stage).

[cshepherd]

I'm not real sure how a FOH engineer can improve a recording rig's ability to capture room acoustics. 

Considering the improvement in sound is noticeable from the opening notes of the second set, he would have had to dial the sound in while on break.  Dialing up an improvement of this caliber while the band wasn't even playing would be quite an accomplishment.  This thought also implies that he completely missed it while the band was on stage.  I've been taping for eight years.  I've never had a second set's sound improve like this.

Regarding the volume, the bass is noticeably better in the second set.  More low end will translate into a louder tape.  I haven't looked at the wave files yet, but that would be my guess.  Maybe Dennis or someone who was there could comment on the volume issue. 

No offense taken, Chris.  I could do it front of our stereo, but I don't think that would tell the full story either.  Room acoustics are a huge part of recording from the audience.  The Mic Hybrid handles them quite well.  I wouldn't be able to portray that with a rig in front of my stereo.  If Dennis used two identical rigs at the show, there would be a mic placement issue with that setup.  In the end, there is no perfect cable comparison for what we do here.  We have to accept a certain amount of inherent variables if we're going to compare these cables in our element.  I agree, more recordings will tell the story.

BTW, this was not my recording...dennisrtyler made this recording.  They're going out to someone with Hyperconductors in their rig next month.  I'll ask them to use the Mic Hybrids for the first set.  Then you guys can all blame the soundman for getting drunk at set break. <~a little humor there at the end.

Chris

[stevetoney]

No offence Chris but you cant have a comparison if your not using the exact same song with the mics in the exact same position. A good test might be placing the mics in a room with a good stereo and playing the same track once with one set of cables then with out disturbing the position of the mics plug in the next set of cables and record the same track again. Then we really could hear the difference.

I agree with this comment whole-heartedly.  The control group needs to be truly controlled so that the only variable is the cables...and that would of course mean controlling all of the outside influences that could potentially color the sound that comes through a sample.  So, I agree totally with Chris.  

I don't understand why a high quality cable manufacturer wouldn't do this anyway as a sales pitch for their product if it is true because a) this is so simple to do and b) the high quality cable makers make such definitive claims that cables make such a large sound difference.  

So, if the cable people DO want the consuming public to believe that there is such a difference, then please give us some objective evidence to support these statements.  Then I will believe it because there's enough skeptics out here in taping-land that it makes me balk at spending the extra money.  

Give me a reason to actually WANT to spend several hundred dollars on cables and I will!  

Frankly, the fact that there is little or no control group evidence out there makes me wonder if it isn't all bullshit, but I don't necessarily want to believe that if it isn't true.

Thanks.

[stevetoney]

A good test might be placing the mics in a room with a good stereo and playing the same track

I've tried it quite a few times and have never been a big fan.  It can be good for some things (tone) but really falls short on others (sound stage).

All this consumer wants is to HEAR the difference in cables in a controlled environment so that I can make an informed decision.  It doesn't need to be a full blown listening experience. 

However, not knowing for myself what all the issues are...if soundstage is an issue, then why couldn't a method be designed wherein a controlled environment is provided for this also? For example, maybe the cable manufacturer needs to take their cables out to a club, set up their controlled environment in the club by playing some loud music through the clubs PA system wherein all of the variables are controlled except for the cables.  If a cable manufacturer wanted to truly backup their claims of superior sound quality (even the small guys on this list) then I can't imagine that would be all that difficult to set up. 

[imgoinmad]

Regarding the volume, the bass is noticeably better in the second set.  More low end will translate into a louder tape.  I haven't looked at the wave files yet, but that would be my guess. 

Perhaps the bass player changed guitars or even onstage volume?

[cshepherd]

Frankly, the fact that there is little or no control group evidence out there makes me wonder if it isn't all bullshit, but I don't necessarily want to believe that if it isn't true.

Thanks.

That's pretty much what this thread is all about.  I agree, there is not much real evidence around this forum pertaining to cable performance.

For example, maybe the cable manufacturer needs to take their cables out to a club, set up their controlled environment in the club by playing some loud music through the clubs PA system wherein all of the variables are controlled except for the cables.  If a cable manufacturer wanted to truly backup their claims of superior sound quality (even the small guys on this list) then I can't imagine that would be all that difficult to set up. 

That would be just about impossible to set up and loud PA's blaring CDs in an empty club is about the worst sound in the whole world.  That just creates more variables.  This is about taping live bands and that's it.

Chris

[stevetoney]

Frankly, the fact that there is little or no control group evidence out there makes me wonder if it isn't all bullshit, but I don't necessarily want to believe that if it isn't true.

Thanks.

That's pretty much what this thread is all about.  I agree, there is not much real evidence around this forum pertaining to cable performance.

I understand, but unfortunately, enough people have pointed out enough questions in these samples that, for me personally, I haven't been able to make any definitive conclusions from the comparison, although I wish I could. 

If there were a control group study made, that would provide the defense you need to shield your claims against the comments of the skeptics.

For example, maybe the cable manufacturer needs to take their cables out to a club, set up their controlled environment in the club by playing some loud music through the clubs PA system wherein all of the variables are controlled except for the cables.  If a cable manufacturer wanted to truly backup their claims of superior sound quality (even the small guys on this list) then I can't imagine that would be all that difficult to set up. 

That would be just about impossible to set up and loud PA's blaring CDs in an empty club is about the worst sound in the whole world.  That just creates more variables.  This is about taping live bands and that's it.

Chris

OK, then use a different environment...I don't care.  I was just throwing out ideas. 

I've personally always like the 'loud stereo in the living room' method because it's works for me 100% of the time for any A versus B testing that I've ever wanted to conduct.  Sure, it might not provide the total listening experience, but I'd think there could be some simple test environment designed (other than the living room) to provide some of the objective evidence that I've been asking about.  If it doesn't provide an accurate representation of some aspect of the listening experience, such as soundstage, then just include that caveat in the test results.

[Krispy D]

I did a cable comp a while ago that worked well.  I took two mics each with a different cable into my pre into my deck.  I then ran the mics paralell to one another in front of the stereo directly infront of one speaker.  This is very important.  If you record in stereo then, well, the chanels will be different.  balance as well as possible (good meters will pay off here) and there you go two chanel cable comp.