Topic: Posi-Lok - higher quality alternatives?

[voltronic]

Recently I've been using my Posi-Lok clutch to angle a wide stereo bar downwards when on a tall stand.  Unfortunately, I've found that it is not welded true.  By that I mean when you mount a bar on it and look straight-on from the front or back in the direction the clutch would tilt it towards or away from you, the bar is sloped significantly to one side by several degrees.  If I angle the clutch down by about 30 degrees or more, I can compensate by rotating the stereo bar itself a bit more on the top mount, so that the bar is then level to the ground.  But if the clutch is only angled slightly or straight up, it's very crooked.  I never noticed this before because I was using the clutch with a clamp in a very different way.  Either this is a "you get what you pay for" or I got a defective one.  It's long past the return window, unfortunately.

TL;DR: I'm looking for something like the Posi-Lok, but better made, so that it is absolutely true throughout its entire range of adjustment.  I'm also looking for something that's not terribly heavy or visually obtrusive, and even when I'm running 4 mics on a bar, they're all very light.  Here's what I've found so far - anyone have experiences with these or other good options?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546375-REG/Manfrotto_026_026_Swivel_Umbrella_Adapter.html (probably more robust than what I need)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/863722-REG/Kupo_kg007012_TILT_UMBRELLA_ADAPTER_WITH.html (aesthetically I like this one much better)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1159331-REG/rode_698813_003501_3_8_pivoting_boom_adaptor.html (love how compact this one is)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298709-REG/Impact_3117_Umbrella_Bracket.html (cheapest option that looks OK)

[stevetoney]

I have the first one.  It does the job without any issues.  I haven't had any slippage.  It's probably not the smallest and lightest, but that hasn't been a concern of mine.  I've used it for both umbrella and mic mounting.  I like it because it's an accessory that comes in handy for a variety of uses, though I don't carry it 100% of the time in my bag.

[thunderbolt]

This is about as small as you can get (though not real light):

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/058990-Audio-Technica-AT8459/
http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/198553-Manfrotto-386B

While not cheap, these together handle most of what I need.

[voltronic]

This is about as small as you can get (though not real light):

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/058990-Audio-Technica-AT8459/
http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/198553-Manfrotto-386B

While not cheap, these together handle most of what I need.

I like that AT swivel - I had looked at some ballhead options, but then those would be fiddly to get level.  This one looks restricted to one degree of movement, so it would do the job nicely.  Is that a knurled jam nut at the top?

[thunderbolt]

It is a knurled jam nut.  It does not move, however.

For better or worse, the ball moves in all directions, but I have found it to lock very securely when it's near-vertical.  I have used it for a full size (13") Jecklin disc, for instance.  As you go off-vertical, that's when a heavier weight could cause it to potentially move.  For mics on a T-bar, or an umbrella, no prob.

You need one of these to connect the two:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MA125OSS?adpos=1o2&creative=55673940721&device=t&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CNbym-iZ0ccCFcsXHwoddboNUA

[voltronic]

It is a knurled jam nut.  It does not move, however.

For better or worse, the ball moves in all directions, but I have found it to lock very securely when it's near-vertical.  I have used it for a full size (13") Jecklin disc, for instance.  As you go off-vertical, that's when a heavier weight could cause it to potentially move.  For mics on a T-bar, or an umbrella, no prob.

You need one of these to connect the two:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MA125OSS?adpos=1o2&creative=55673940721&device=t&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CNbym-iZ0ccCFcsXHwoddboNUA

That's odd that they would put knurling on it if it doesn't move.  I have some of the Latch Lake jam nuts I use though, so no big deal.  When you say it moves in all directions - it looks like the top ball joint only moves one way, meaning you can't wiggle it from side to side.  Is that correct?

And I have a few of those adapters - actually this version which I like: http://www.performanceaudio.com/item/hosa-mhd-4/31336/

[acidjack]

I have that first Manfrotto you linked for this purpose. It works.

[thunderbolt]

It is a knurled jam nut.  It does not move, however.

For better or worse, the ball moves in all directions, but I have found it to lock very securely when it's near-vertical.  I have used it for a full size (13") Jecklin disc, for instance.  As you go off-vertical, that's when a heavier weight could cause it to potentially move.  For mics on a T-bar, or an umbrella, no prob.

You need one of these to connect the two:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MA125OSS?adpos=1o2&creative=55673940721&device=t&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CNbym-iZ0ccCFcsXHwoddboNUA

That's odd that they would put knurling on it if it doesn't move.  I have some of the Latch Lake jam nuts I use though, so no big deal.  When you say it moves in all directions - it looks like the top ball joint only moves one way, meaning you can't wiggle it from side to side.  Is that correct?

And I have a few of those adapters - actually this version which I like: http://www.performanceaudio.com/item/hosa-mhd-4/31336/

I guess I never needed the locking knurled knob.  I guess it's time to get out the pliers.  But yes, the ball moves the joint freely in all axes.  I like that for umbrella mounting in particular.

[2manyrocks]

Could you bend the posi-lock until it's straight?

[voltronic]

Could you bend the posi-lock until it's straight?

I tried - no go.  One or both of the welds are not true, but they are welded quite strong.  If I had some kind of industrial press I might be able to do it, but would probably just end up breaking the weld.

[danny3]

I have tried many an On-Stage product (like the posi-lok) - they usually are cheaper to buy - but they are mostly crap, at least when put through the usage I give stuff.

The AT swivel is an item I always carry now - it is very versitle in getting things positioned in tricky set-ups, although as you presumed, it can be trying to get just right, especially when working at a height.

[voltronic]

My experience with On-Stage handheld mic stands has been pretty mixed.  The Posi-Lok I bought on enthusiastic recommendation from users here, and it generally is a solid piece of hardware other than the misalignment.  I've never heard another complaint about one though, so I may just have a dud.

For a similar price, I think I'm liking this Rycote better than the AT swivel.  Only one ball joint to fiddle with, and 3/8" on both ends which means I wouldn't need any adapters.  I'd like to know the weight rating, even though my rig is pretty light.  No reviews anywhere an not any more info on manufacturer's page.

[2manyrocks]

All rycote might be another way to go. 

After looking at mine which appears slightly bent as well, I suspect it could be bent straight or heated with a welding torch and bent straight. 

[voltronic]

For a weirder option, I'm strongly considering one of these Manfrotto Dado knock-offs.  I would be locked in to 45 or 90 degree angles, but that's no big deal, and there are so many other uses for this I can think of.  For almost the same price as that Rycote ball joint, this is a better gadget value, I think.

[if_then_else]

For a weirder option, I'm strongly considering one of these Manfrotto Dado knock-offs.  I would be locked in to 45 or 90 degree angles, but that's no big deal, and there are so many other uses for this I can think of.  For almost the same price as that Rycote ball joint, this is a better gadget value, I think.

FWIW: A couple of months ago I bought the "Tether Tools" elbow in order to be able to mount a camcorder and a rather heavy fluid head (Benro S8) to a Cardellini clamp at an arbitrary angle. According to the specifications, the elbow can take up to 80 lb (36.5 kg). Apparently this thing has been designed to support heavy video monitors. Probably "overkill" for your specific field of application but worth noting anyway.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1033020-REG/tether_tools_rs606_rock_solid_aero_elbow.html
 
As for the Manfrotto Dado clones: There are also some black ones available now (from e-image and a couple of sellers on ebay or aliexpress). The provided extensions rods are a bit short for my liking but, if you have got the right adapters you could use pretty much any 3/8 inch threaded rod (or adjustable extension poles such as the Manfrotto 122b).

[carlbeck]

For a similar price, I think I'm liking this Rycote better than the AT swivel.  Only one ball joint to fiddle with, and 3/8" on both ends which means I wouldn't need any adapters.  I'd like to know the weight rating, even though my rig is pretty light.  No reviews anywhere an not any more info on manufacturer's page.

I like that Rycote version but I'm also wondering about the weight it can handle. I got one of these & it slips from 90 degrees with my mic's on a 12" Following Bob mic bar, too bad because it is small & light weight.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UOMGU8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s02

[voltronic]

Good to know, because I frequently use the 24" version of that bar with 4 mics.  I'm no longer considering ball heads.

[carlbeck]

I run four mics & shock mounts on my bar.

The specs on my ball mount say that it holds 7lbs fwiw. I took mine apart, the set screw doesn't contact the ball, it rides in a groove forcing a cup up to hold the ball tight. I wouldn't expect it to hold anything in the desired position but a set of actives or small SDC's.

[voltronic]

I run four mics & shock mounts on my bar.

The specs on my ball mount say that it holds 7lbs fwiw. I took mine apart, the set screw doesn't contact the ball, it rides in a groove forcing a cup up to hold the ball tight. I wouldn't expect it to hold anything in the desired position but a set of actives or small SDC's.

Same for me.  Even though my mics are really light, I sometimes have my friends Schoeps MK4/MK8 and/or C214s on there as well.  Now that I think about all of that, I really wouldn't trust the ballhead, Rycote quality or otherwise.

It's too bad about the Posi-Lok.  It really is a good solution, but I won't risk buying another one.

[2manyrocks]

For the price, at least the posi lock doesn't slip. 

[voltronic]

Here's a good thread on the Manfrotto Dado:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/835462-clever-new-bit-manfrotto-goodness.html

[2manyrocks]

Try searching "magic ball" in eBay camera listings.

[voltronic]

Try searching "magic ball" in eBay camera listings.

If you're talking about this, then that's the one I was referring to both here and when I posted about it on GS.  Go back and look at Reply #13.  AliExpress is $5 cheaper than eBay with coupon.  Same price here, no coupon required.

They also sell a version with only 3 tubes, but I think the 6 tube version is much more useful.

[Brian Skalinder]

I'd be wary of any option that [1] isn't from a reputable company and [2] doesn't have a load rating.  (And [1] mainly because without it, who knows whether it's sensible to believe [2]...if it's even provided.)  I simply wouldn't want to risk my mic investment crashing to the ground from my stand or a balcony or wherever.

[voltronic]

I'd be wary of any option that [1] isn't from a reputable company and [2] doesn't have a load rating.  (And [1] mainly because without it, who knows whether it's sensible to believe [2]...if it's even provided.)  I simply wouldn't want to risk my mic investment crashing to the ground from my stand or a balcony or wherever.

Good points, which is why I'm out on ball heads.  But if you're talking about the Dado / Magic Ball, you're never going to see a weight rating on that because it's just machined pieces that fit together.  Mind you, I would not be using this for balcony clamping with an arm - the Posi-Lok will still work fine for that, even with the bend.  I'm talking about putting the ball itself on top of my stand and attaching my mic bar directly to it so I can have the mics angled down in front of an orchestra or choir, positioned above and behind the conductor.  If the 3/8" holes were inserts, I'd be concerned but it's one machined piece of aluminum.

[aaronji]

I simply wouldn't want to risk my mic investment crashing to the ground from my stand or a balcony or wherever.

Not to mention the people standing under said investment...

[if_then_else]

I'd be wary of any option that [1] isn't from a reputable company and [2] doesn't have a load rating.  (And [1] mainly because without it, who knows whether it's sensible to believe [2]...if it's even provided.)  I simply wouldn't want to risk my mic investment crashing to the ground from my stand or a balcony or wherever.

Good points, which is why I'm out on ball heads.  But if you're talking about the Dado / Magic Ball, you're never going to see a weight rating on that because it's just machined pieces that fit together.  Mind you, I would not be using this for balcony clamping with an arm - the Posi-Lok will still work fine for that, even with the bend.  I'm talking about putting the ball itself on top of my stand and attaching my mic bar directly to it so I can have the mics angled down in front of an orchestra or choir, positioned above and behind the conductor.  If the 3/8" holes were inserts, I'd be concerned but it's one machined piece of aluminum.

Just to confirm. I bought two of these Manfrotto Dado knock-offs  ("ishoot", "e-image") and they're **very** sturdy. However, you might want to use washers between the Dado / Magic Ball and the studs because, otherwise, it will be close to impossible to unscrew them again (without damaging the powder coating of the Dado).