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Author Topic: UA-5 and SCMS!?!  (Read 1417 times)

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Offline §†∑∫åµÞ≥¥

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UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« on: April 28, 2004, 03:37:13 PM »
Hey all... I ran my UA-5 on Friday and had a weird experience. After the first set (which recorded fine) I ejected the tape from my D100 and changed the batteries, then loaded my same 90m tape back into the machine. When I tried to record again, I kept getting "Tape Protect" for some reason. Anone else have this problem? I didn't figure out what the problem was and never did get a signal again that night.  I ejected the tape again to double-check the plastic tape protect switch hadn't been moved, unplugged all my gear and hooked it back up, reinserted the previous set of batteries and even tried a brand new tape and nothing solved the problem.

Yesterday, marc0789 came over and we tested the UA-5 with 2 different DAT decks, 2 different 7-pin cables and had no problems sending digital signal with any of them. My D100 heads seem to be pretty clean plus it automatically defeats SCMS so I don't think that's the issue. The only other thing I can figure is the digital signal from the UA-5 > D100 somehow acquired a SCMS setting on it and I couldn't record anymore. Any ideas or suggestions? Again, it seems to work fine now but I'd hate to have the problem again when I'm recording live.

Thanks...
Steve
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Offline todd e

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2004, 03:49:14 PM »
isn't the scms signal stored in the 7pin?  that leads me to believe that for some reason your 7pin was faulty for the afternoon/evening.  i know you probably did everything you could, but it may have just needed a little jos-sling..




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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2004, 04:15:48 PM »
the D100 disables SCMS?

I thought the only difference between the D100 and the M1(besides case color) was that the M1 disabled SCMS


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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2004, 04:36:04 PM »
For clarity's sake:

  • The D100 does not defeat SCMS, though the M1 does.
  • The SCMS signal is not "stored" in the 7-pin.  SCMS is simply a subcode flag in the S/PDIF bitstream, and the 7-pin cable merely transmits the digital signal from source to target device.  More reading on S/PDIF, including description of how SCMS works.

    That said, not sure what the problem is - sounds like a funky situation if you ask me.

    Did you try the same tape in both the alternative DAT decks at home?  Same 7-pin?  Did you power-cycle the UA5 at the show (who knows, something funky might've happened, grasping at straws on this one)?  Condition of UA5 batteries when this happened?
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Offline makers marc

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2004, 04:42:04 PM »
it was a weird one, we tried everything. nice when something self-corrects, but a little disconcerting too. :P
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Offline mirth

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2004, 05:06:52 PM »
Doesn't the UA-5 also only care about SCMS when its receiving a digital signal, and not sending one? I think the power LED is supposed to flash or something when its blocking a SPDIF signal.
Governor Jim McGreevey was equally disturbed about the upcoming population increase. "New Jersey cannot support all of these wookies," he said. "For starters, we don't have nearly enough kindbud. At best, we can muster up a Q.P. of some beasties, but we've not a dime-bag more."

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2004, 06:19:11 PM »
For clarity's sake:

  • The D100 does not defeat SCMS, though the M1 does.
  • The SCMS signal is not "stored" in the 7-pin.  SCMS is simply a subcode flag in the S/PDIF bitstream, and the 7-pin cable merely transmits the digital signal from source to target device.  More reading on S/PDIF, including description of how SCMS works.

    That said, not sure what the problem is - sounds like a funky situation if you ask me.

    Did you try the same tape in both the alternative DAT decks at home?  Same 7-pin?  Did you power-cycle the UA5 at the show (who knows, something funky might've happened, grasping at straws on this one)?  Condition of UA5 batteries when this happened?
I definitely used the same tape in both decks (D100 and M1) and used each different 7-pin on each different deck.

How do I power cycle my UA-5? I bought joeshambro's used one and he didn't send the manual or driver disk.  :-\

I may have f'd something up when removing my batteries. Phantom power issue? No, b/c I still had a functioning peak gain LED when I cranked my levels. Tape issue? I tested different tapes. UA-5 coax-out issue? It worked in my living room yesterday. Deck issue? It worked fine before and after the fact. 7-pin issue? I used 3 different cables the night of the show and none of them work.

Does the UA-5 put SCMS in it's digi-out signal? This was only the 3rd time I've used it, both for 2 set shows using a 90m tape, and the only difference I made this time was switching batteries before the 2nd set which I didn't do the previous 2 times. The UA-5 was running off an 8 D-cell battery sled.

The only other variables I can think of from Friday are (a) I was giving a digital/coax patch out to a DA-P1 and (b) I was giving a line-out feed to a little HD recorder, both of which worked fine for set 1. Weird.

Thanks for the input.
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Offline BC

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2004, 11:44:09 PM »
One thing that comes to mind is some slight misalignment that is causing the deck to mistakenly read a SCMS bit.

Have you tried replicating the problem with the same tape and deck? Try repeatedly removing and inserting the problem tape as well as a fresh blank,  see if the SCMS comes up every time.

How many hours are on your deck? Might want to try playing one of your recent D100 tapes on a home deck with accurate error counts (R300, R500, etc...), if you are seeing errors your alignment may be a bit out of whack on the D100. Heads may also be slightly dirty even though they "appear" clean.

Just brainstorming here, sounds like this might be one of those weird things that happens once and is not repeatable (hopefully!!).

Take care,
Ben


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Offline mirth

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2004, 11:29:38 AM »
Power cycle UA-5 = push power button, wait 5 seconds, push power button.
Governor Jim McGreevey was equally disturbed about the upcoming population increase. "New Jersey cannot support all of these wookies," he said. "For starters, we don't have nearly enough kindbud. At best, we can muster up a Q.P. of some beasties, but we've not a dime-bag more."

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2004, 01:25:46 PM »
Check out Doug's reply over on Oade, I think he's got it right (big surprise).  I equated "Tape Protect" with "Copy Prohibit".  Not the same (duh).  Sounds like a tape issue, let us know if you figure it out!
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Offline Terps

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Re:UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2004, 09:54:40 PM »
For clarity's sake:

  • The D100 does not defeat SCMS, though the M1 does.
  • The SCMS signal is not "stored" in the 7-pin.  SCMS is simply a subcode flag in the S/PDIF bitstream, and the 7-pin cable merely transmits the digital signal from source to target device.  More reading on S/PDIF, including description of how SCMS works.

    That said, not sure what the problem is - sounds like a funky situation if you ask me.

    Did you try the same tape in both the alternative DAT decks at home?  Same 7-pin?  Did you power-cycle the UA5 at the show (who knows, something funky might've happened, grasping at straws on this one)?  Condition of UA5 batteries when this happened?
I remember reading somewhere about D100s falsing on SCMS.
I think it was in Sony fixes. I don't have a link, so search it up at DAT Heads or call ProDig and ask.

If I find it, I'll post it.
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Offline snoknight

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Re: UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2004, 07:41:44 PM »
I just made a stealth recording of certain concert. It was done on my minidisk IM DR420. My neglected AA batt went down 3/4 of the way through the show, i changed it and found the new batt was really an old one. one minue later it went down for the finale. When i brought it home and plugged it into the UA-5 there wasn't any digital transfer happening. the power light was flashing, i read that as a SCMS protect. what??? well somehow i forwarded the MD by chance to trac 2 or the second batt of the nights recording. Volla! digital sound and no SCMS light flash. well i guess the $175.00 M-Audio force pass SCMS management device was destined to be mine. I did find that the RCA input 'gained up' the signal just fine with little noise addition. My conclusion on the SCMS ISSUE... random chance in hell of activating the flag for 1st generation copy on a pure analog recording but it can happen and it seems to not have format or brand limitations, stroke that record button just right boys and girls.
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Offline tonyvt

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Re: UA-5 and SCMS!?!
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2004, 03:50:15 PM »
I had the same thing happen to my UA-5 and M1 this summer while taping at the Greyfox Bluegrass Fest. The bummer
was  that it happened just as RRE was going on stage.

Go with mirths recommendation if it happens again.

I ended up having to power everything down and then powered back up and it was OK for the rest of the night.
Same thing happened the next day but hasn't since.
I'm a Bluegrasshole.

 

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